Poll: Least Useful Unit

[blaugh]

Well I decided to turn this into a poll because... I was bored I guess.

 

[DigitalBoy]

I think every unit is at least marginally useful, but I think the explorer gets the least use out of me.

 

[TomOC]

I built an explorer once... by accident. I fed him to an AI I was at war with (just for fun).

 

[Dr Elmer Jiggle]

Of the ones you've listed, musketmen and ironclads are the two that I almost never build. In fact, probably 90% of the time when I have built one of those, it's been mostly just for the sake of building one so I could say I did and prove to myself again that I never want to build another one.

The others all have their uses. I don't make them in large numbers, but there's a definite niche for each one.

• Explorer: I'll often build one or sometimes two to load onto my first caravels. That way you can offload him in the first country that gives you open borders and map the other continent, which increases the value of your map and increases your chances of circumnavigating. Missionaries can work equally well though, so sometimes I won't make an explorer to explore. The other good use for explorers is as medics once you have enough free experience points from barracks, Theocracy, Vassalage, etc. to get them a few promotions.
  
• Carrier: Absolutely not useless. A few carriers supporting a transport ship of marines means any coastal city can be taken in one turn with no losses.
  
• Submarine: I usually park a few at the borders of whichever civilizations I think are likely to attack me. They make an excellent early warning system. Also, submarines with the flanking promotions are an excellent addition to any navy. A Flanking II submarine has an 80% chance of withdrawal, and once they soften up the enemy, your destroyers and battleships will have 90% or greater odds. Take Drill promotions after Flanking.
  
• Stealth Bomber: most games don't go late enough to make many of these, but if I do get there, I'll make lots. Bombers are a huge component of any late game military campaign, and stealth bombers are clearly better than regular bombers. These are most likely to appear in a space race victory gone bad.
  

 

[Spartan117]

i think ironclads. later inronclads were ocean worthy in real life, but anyway because they are not in civ it is very difficult to utilize them.

stealth bombers(fast moving artillery) are some of the most important units in modern age.

 

[Norseman2]

Definitely the ironclad. It has a very short lifespan, nor is it particularly deadly or mobile, being that it's both slow and unable to enter the ocean. At least a frigate is still useful when you have destroyers and battleships. It has some small ability to keep up with the fleet. Both the ironclad and frigate can bombard (at the same rates), both are useless against modern fleets. The advantage of the frigate is that it can bombard for longer, since it gets to the target quicker.

 

[dh_epic]

I find that the explorer is of questionable value... but being able to position them on a mountain can be pretty useful for recon, in multiplayer.

Much more questionable value is anything in the modern era, IMO.

 

[Pantastic]

I voted explorer, because it's the only unit I know of where I'd rather have the unit it obsoletes. I use explorers for a few things, like loading onto a caravel to get OB and explore some land or as medics, but I can't think of any situation where I'd rather not just have 2 2/3 scouts than 1 explorer. They're also not that great at exploring; they're not anywhere near strong enough to seriously explore a terra map, and on other map types you'll probably have all of the land either explored or owned by the time they come around.

 

[Napo981]

Ironclad

Ironclad is the less useful.

Could have its utility if see units would have zone of control. It could be then used to stop disembarquement.

Explorers

I think explorers are underestimated.

Scouting and spying are some of the most important aspects of military planning.

Explorers provide cheap and mobile units for this purpose. But obselete horse units do the job for less. Explorers could be better if it would be maintenance-free.

EDIT :

Submarines

Submarines are my eyes on the sea.

But with a large territory, those eyes are costly.

Could be better is less expansive.

Carrier

I use them to provide air defense to a pack of naval units. I often do amphibious assaults with marines, which needs a lot of marine and a good escort. This shoudn't be complete without one or two carriers.

Musketman

Shortlived. But as I have always one or two cities pumping out units. I will always have some musketmen in my ground force. Sometimes, I'll rush toward gunpowder to get them ASAP but slow down the military path to get other valuable techs before riflemen/grenadiers. That way, they make good late-medieval defensive units. But of course, it's more a transition unit and I woudn't plan a full scale attack with them.

 

[Pantastic]

Even in your defense of explorers, you admit that obsolete horse units do the job you might use them for better than they do.

Explorers can't spy in the way I'd use the term; you have to have OB to put them in someone else's land. With OB I'd rather have 2 2/3 scouts keeping an eye on things than 1 explorer. For scouting, I'd rather either have 2 2/3 even cheaper scouts or some solid units that can fight back against casual counterattacks.

If you think explorers are underrated, then what's the situation where you'd rather have 1 explorer than 2 2/3 scouts? I say that earns the explorer the 'most useless' title; its only function is to remove access to a unit that does the same thing it does but cheaper.

 

[jimbob27]

Explorers would be good if they gave them a couple of unique abilities. Give them 50% withdrawal when they're defending, but make it so that it only works in neutral territory, and then give them a bonus for attacking barbarian-guarded goodie huts. That way they'd be really useful on terra maps, so you could rush them to the new continent, and then they'd be a race to uncover all the territory, and get the goodie huts.

 

[Tristan_C]

Musketman is one of the most useful units. Immune to all the special advantages of earlier units. Cheap, versatile. Good defender.

 

[vegitossj341]

i would have to say the explorer.

 

[Equendil]

Explorers are supposed to fill that niche when you have caravels and navigating the oceans in search of a new world, so it's rather useless to all the pangea players, and to be honest, I barely ever use any in my games as well. That being said, they're not military units so that's ok with me, it's not like I build a ton of scouts or spies either in my games.

Personally, I find musketmen completely appalling, they lack the bonus traits of their predecessors, can't be upgraded from those, and the much better grenadiers are just around the corner by the time you get muskets. I'd rather have macemen, knights, war elephants and catapults in an offensive stack, and pikemen and more of the same maces and knights as defense. They might be vaguely useful with city garrison promotions, but then I'd rather strike AI stacks and pillagers before they reach my cities. Admitedly, I seldom build longbowmen either but at least, I can upgrade my archers when needed, and longbowmen make much much better city defenders for their era.

Edit: I don't understand ironclads also, they should be an upgrade from frigates, instead of that, they're some kind of super galley ?

 

[bassist2119]

Had to vote other. There are some strong arguments made here, particularly against explorers. But as far as least useful unit in the game, I would have to go with Aztec Jags. Maybe it doesn't count as it's a UU, but it's the only unit in the game that, IMO, WEAKENS a civilization. An aggressive civ having a unit that loses 17% of it's power? And the early access city raider unit for that matter?

 

[Moonsinger]

Well I decided to turn this into a poll because... I was bored I guess.

Well, I decided to vote on this poll because...I was bored I guess. Anyway, my pick on the Explorer.

 

[Norseman2]

Had to vote other. There are some strong arguments made here, particularly against explorers. But as far as least useful unit in the game, I would have to go with Aztec Jags. Maybe it doesn't count as it's a UU, but it's the only unit in the game that, IMO, WEAKENS a civilization. An aggressive civ having a unit that loses 17% of it's power? And the early access city raider unit for that matter?

There a couple of good points to the Jaguar. Firstly, it takes 35 not 40 like the swordsman, i.e. it's 13% cheaper, so you can make 13% more. Second, you don't need iron to make it. So, if you're stuck without any iron, this will guarantee that you can get some iron from nations that do, without being at too serious of a disadvantage. This is particularly good on 18 player terra games. The start tends to be pretty crowded, and you can only put a couple of cities out, which means your odds of getting iron randomly are somewhat low. Because you start out with mysticism, you can also grab an early religion which is nice for getting allies and boosting your economy, especially on an 18 player game.

 

[bassist2119]

There a couple of good points to the Jaguar. Firstly, it takes 35 not 40 like the swordsman, i.e. it's 13% cheaper, so you can make 13% more. Second, you don't need iron to make it. So, if you're stuck without any iron, this will guarantee that you can get some iron from nations that do, without being at too serious of a disadvantage. This is particularly good on 18 player terra games. The start tends to be pretty crowded, and you can only put a couple of cities out, which means your odds of getting iron randomly are somewhat low. Because you start out with mysticism, you can also grab an early religion which is nice for getting allies and boosting your economy, especially on an 18 player game.

You make a great argument, Norseman2, enough for me to buy the jag as an equal to the swordsman... but not a superior unit as ALL other civs are entitled to. The reduction in price is, as you described, equivalent to the loss of power, which only equals whereas everyone else gains an advantage. As for the lack of iron, all civs, particularlly aggressive ones, can compensate for this with axemen rushes to obtain it. The Aztecs can do the same, so I don't see the Jag's purpose, especially since it can then research something (or things) other than iron working. In response to the 18 player terra game, I tend to rule out most supporting evidence that is situationally dependant. As for getting allies and boosting economy with mysticism, this doesn't relate to the presence of the inferior UU.

 

[Norseman2]

You make a great argument, Norseman2, enough for me to buy the jag as an equal to the swordsman... but not a superior unit as ALL other civs are entitled to. The reduction in price is, as you described, equivalent to the loss of power, which only equals whereas everyone else gains an advantage. As for the lack of iron, all civs, particularlly aggressive ones, can compensate for this with axemen rushes to obtain it. The Aztecs can do the same, so I don't see the Jag's purpose, especially since it can then research something (or things) other than iron working. In response to the 18 player terra game, I tend to rule out most supporting evidence that is situationally dependant. As for getting allies and boosting economy with mysticism, this doesn't relate to the presence of the inferior UU.

Axemen require copper, and jaguars get a 10% bonus against cities. I've played more than a few games where I had neither copper, nor iron. I had to just wait things out until I got gunpowder, but this is not the case if you have jaguars. Furthermore, against a comptent opponent (or computer, because they just love to attack resources), your sources of iron and copper will be the first to go. With the Aztecs, as long as you have cities, and the technology, you can make jaguars. It's a great fallback.

The mysticism bit was note on the proper use of the Aztecs. Their civilization is best suited to crowded games with a lot of players. It gets you off to a good start, and then can keeps your economy strong even when you have a fairly large empire. The jaguar's role fits into this. If you're playing a game with the Aztecs, and you've chosen that civ wisely, then you're in a game where the jaguars will be useful.

 

[Wodan]

As for the lack of iron, all civs, particularlly aggressive ones, can compensate for this with axemen rushes to obtain it. The Aztecs can do the same...

Assuming they have Copper.

Wodan