[Extension] [POLL] More Wonders for VP

[gwennog]

It's too much. Like, way, way, way too much. It's an overwhelming amount of wonders; every AI and the player are all running around with 10+ wonders, and it makes them feel a lot less special. And even with the wonderful Wonder Planner mod, it's insane amount to keep track of, especially considering...

I play with more wonders from the start. For me, the philosophy is not the same as in a classic VP game. A wonder is not necessarily a goal to be achieved in order to be in synergy with the game that we are playing. Seek out the technology that will give access to the wonder that will optimize your game choices. In this mod, wonders rather become opportunities of place and time, which we seize or leave because they are not interesting when we can build them. In this way, it also brings a great freshness in the sense that they can finally orient, if we build them, our game in a completely different direction.
If we follow this philosophy the requirements are absolutely necessary, of which I think, that of the era limitation and those sensitive to the game of other players as well.

I don't personally think there should be wonders available from the beginning of the game. On anything above King, these are basically free buffs to the AI. A player has zero chance of getting them, and they'd never be worth it even if you did.

In emperor game, I have no particular problem accessing one of the early game wonders and what a pleasure to be able to perform Kuk when you have your feet in the backwaters or Goebekli Tepe for a city in the middle of the mountains.

It is true that the mod benefits from having a little in-depth knowledge of what we can build, where and how, but even without that, there are enough diversity of requirements to be able to build a jewel of the creativity of human.

I think, on the other hand, that we should think about the hill placement of certain wonders of the early ages, with a well-placed city, we can chain a large number of wonders without competitions with the AI which will rarely have this possibility, given the type of placement that it adopts.
You will have understood it, I am only giving an opinion which can without problem not be shared but More Wonders for VP is my favorite mod, big thank you Adan for your work .

 

[Vaya]

I was wondering for quite some time now why many wonder requirments dont work in my games but nobody mention it here and I just found out why. I disabled Bamyan WW in MainRulesForWorldWonders.sql following instructions in FAQ and hints in file. I was trying to limit weird religion pressures in all my games.
This is what it causes(lua.log):

[109758.750] Runtime Error: ...\MODS\(overhaul) More Wonders for VP\1.WorldWonders/Lua/UniqueWorldWondersRequirements.lua:727: attempt to index field 'BUILDING_BAMYAN' (a nil value)
[109758.750] Runtime Error: Error loading ...\MODS\(overhaul) More Wonders for VP\1.WorldWonders/Lua/UniqueWorldWondersRequirements.lua.

In short: Disabling Bamyan world wonder and possibly any other wonders with unique requirments causes all other unique requirments fail to load.

I deleted/edited 3 lines mentioning Bamyan wonder in UniqueWorldWondersRequirements.lua but still kept it disabled in MainRulesForWorldWonders.sql and now everything is working just fine. No lua errors and in my test game I suddenly cant build Nazca Lines without camp.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Is there any way I can play without this issue before you release v0.13? Disabling Gate of the Sun in 1.WorldWonders\SQL\MainRulesForWorldWonders.sql doesn't remove the problematic dummy.

edit: Commenting out lines 539-541 in 1.WorldWonders\SQL\WorldWondersDefinitions.sql seems to work out as it makes the dummy have no yields.

Try latest pre 8 github version.

 

[adan_eslavo]

I was wondering for quite some time now why many wonder requirments dont work in my games but nobody mention it here and I just found out why. I disabled Bamyan WW in MainRulesForWorldWonders.sql following instructions in FAQ and hints in file. I was trying to limit weird religion pressures in all my games.
This is what it causes(lua.log):

[109758.750] Runtime Error: ...\MODS\(overhaul) More Wonders for VP\1.WorldWonders/Lua/UniqueWorldWondersRequirements.lua:727: attempt to index field 'BUILDING_BAMYAN' (a nil value)
[109758.750] Runtime Error: Error loading ...\MODS\(overhaul) More Wonders for VP\1.WorldWonders/Lua/UniqueWorldWondersRequirements.lua.

In short: Disabling Bamyan world wonder and possibly any other wonders with unique requirments causes all other unique requirments fail to load.

I deleted/edited 3 lines mentioning Bamyan wonder in UniqueWorldWondersRequirements.lua but still kept it disabled in MainRulesForWorldWonders.sql and now everything is working just fine. No lua errors and in my test game I suddenly cant build Nazca Lines without camp.

This was default feature from predecessor mod I never checked. Thanks for the reply. I will verify it and try to fix!

EDIT: Indeed, defult feature seems to be broken. I tested new solution using lua programming and from my perspective it works nice and is also compatible with Wonder Planner! From user perspective nothing changes - you stil need to change WActive parameter to 0.

 

[Kim Dong Un]

@adan_eslavo , Hinin provided me with this info, hopefully it can be of use:

"It depends on the dlc in which the NWonders were added.

All the gr2 and fxsxml files (respectively : 3d model and animations ; asset attribution text) are present in Sid Meier's Civilization V / Resource / Common :

- FeatureModels.fpk for the base game NW (Barringer Crater, Great Mesa, Great Reef, Krakatoa, Mt. Fuji, Old Faithful, Rock of Gibraltar)

- Upgrade1Models.fpk for the small DLC NWs (El Dorado, Fountain of Youth, Cerro de Potosi)

- Expansion2Models.fpk for G&K and BNW NWs (Mt Kailash, Mt. Sinai, Sri Pada, Uluru, King Solomon's Mines, Lake Victoria, Mt. Kilimanjaro)

As for the dds files (2d pictures applied on the 3d models), they are in Resource / DX9 :

- Upgrade1Textures.fpk for the small DLC NWs (El Dorado, Fountain of Youth, Cerro de Potosi) + SpainIsabellaTextures.fpk (for a part of the Cerro de Potosi)

- Expansion1BuildingsTextures.fpk + Expansion2BuildingsTextures.fpk for the G&K and BNW DLC NW : Kilimanjaro / Lake Victoria / Mt Sinai / Solomon Mines / Sri Pada / Uluru / Mt Kailash (don't know why there are present in those two files, maybe there is a difference, but I can't see it at first glance)

- For the base game NW, can't find them yet."

 

[adan_eslavo]

@Kim Dong Un How to open up those .fpk files?

 

[m0nk3yst1ck]

This was default feature from predecessor mod I never checked. Thanks for the reply. I will verify it and try to fix!

EDIT: Indeed, defult feature seems to be broken. I tested new solution using lua programming and from my perspective it works nice and is also compatible with Wonder Planner! From user perspective nothing changes - you stil need to change WActive parameter to 0.

On MW v0.13 pre 8b: I'm trying to play with certain wonders disabled (by changing WActive to 0 for them) and without the maximum era restriction, but it's applying for me with MW-MAX-ERA set to 0 and MW-RESTRICTIONS set to 1. I think this is due to lines 60-65 in UniqueWorldWondersRequirements.lua. My guess: You used "IsRestrictionEra" instead of "IsRestrictionStandard" on line 62. In the code and in-game I also don't see how MW-RESTRICTIONS influences whether I can disable wonders or not, as the restrictions are always applied regardless of its value if WActive is set to 0.

edit: Seems like wonders with WActive set to 0 are always disabled because of lines 3211-3213 in WorldWondersDefinitions.sql and because there is no IsRestrictionStandard condition for lines 702-713 in UniqueWorldWondersRequirements.lua.

 

[Hinin]

@Kim Dong Un How to open up those .fpk files?

Here is a thread explaining the process.

I personally use the DragonUnpacker + paint.net + Notepad++ combination (+ blender 2.79b obviously, although I'm still limiting myself to dds files modification as of now for my projects).

 

[adan_eslavo]

On MW v0.13 pre 8b: I'm trying to play with certain wonders disabled (by changing WActive to 0 for them) and without the maximum era restriction, but it's applying for me with MW-MAX-ERA set to 0 and MW-RESTRICTIONS set to 1. I think this is due to lines 60-65 in UniqueWorldWondersRequirements.lua. My guess: You used "IsRestrictionEra" instead of "IsRestrictionStandard" on line 62. In the code and in-game I also don't see how MW-RESTRICTIONS influences whether I can disable wonders or not, as the restrictions are always applied regardless of its value if WActive is set to 0.

edit: Seems like wonders with WActive set to 0 are always disabled because of lines 3211-3213 in WorldWondersDefinitions.sql and because there is no IsRestrictionStandard condition for lines 702-713 in UniqueWorldWondersRequirements.lua.

• MW-MAX-ERA fixed in 8c;
• MW-RESTRICTIONS is unused for now; it is bigger stuff to add; it is added just for testing purposes; I need time for that to check more things;
  
• WActive works regardless of MW-MAX-ERA or MW-RESTRICTIONS; it's totally different thing.

 

[adan_eslavo]

@m0nk3yst1ck Pre 8d is on github. Let me know if now it is ok. I did also some cleaning to the files and I want to be sure. I deleted WFake feature, deleted unnecessary lua code, added IsDummy = 1 for blocked WWs (to not to be used by City-States Quests) and fixed the issues you pointed out.

 

[adan_eslavo]

I decided to do an experiment for v0.13. There will be 2 versions available (settings to choose one of them will be available in one of the files):

• Hard requirements (@gwennog version): current state of many different specific requirements; better spread of wonders; less wonders built; better flavour;
• Light requirements (@ridjack version): current state with many difficult requirements cut; mostly left Flat, Hill, River, Coast, Lake, some Mountain, few Marsh, som Terrain and very few specific ones, with many World Wonders left without requirements. Each Policy Branch should have at least 1 World Wonder available with no requirements or very easy requirement that even tall civ will manage to build that (unless you play 1 city challenge);
• No requirements (maybe later): total anihilation of requirements if that will be people's demand. Zero. Null.

 

[ridjack]

I have my own version! I feel so special!

In all seriousness, I'll try adding it when my current game is through. Thank you for doing it!

 

[Bruhmoment]

Is the version available in Github or... is it in the normal download here? I don't know anything about the former, so I'd need some guidance if I want to try this out.
Settings will be available in one of the files? Which files?

 

[adan_eslavo]

What I wrote in last post is not available anywhere, because I just started programming it.
What I wrote earlier is available on github.
v0.13 is still under developement.
When it is needed, I will inform you about it. Be patient. Op will be updated, changelog will come up.
About github - look at op, as always when you have questions.

 

[gwennog]

Hard requirements (@gwennog version):

A Gwennog version, It's too much honor given my very sporadic participation. A big thank you for keeping this version of your mod while opening it up to other sensibilities .

 

[adan_eslavo]

I have my own version! I feel so special!

In all seriousness, I'll try adding it when my current game is through. Thank you for doing it!

A Gwennog version, It's too much honor given my very sporadic participation. A big thank you for keeping this version of your mod while opening it up to other sensibilities .

Heh, this was just a joke to emphasize the recent conversation about requirements. But the truth is that "light" version will have much less requirements (that, doesn't mean no requirements at all). I try to leave at least one easy requirement to each wonder, but some of them still have zero. For now I did only NEOLITIC+ANCIENT. It's time consuming job.

 

[gwennog]

Heh, this was joke to emphasize the recent conversation about requirements. But the truth is that "light" version will have much less requirements (that, doesn't mean no requirements at all). I try to leave at least one easy requirement to each wonder, but some of them still have zero. For now I did only NEOLITIC+ANCIENT. It's time consuming job.

Yes, I am bad in english but I had followed the thread . But never mind, a gwennog version existed for a few seconds on this thread .

 

[adan_eslavo]

Ok I did received 3 answers on github. They are all negative (as always recently):

• G said he do not know anything that could fix the IsNoCoast table, so it will stay as lua code for ever and one day more probably...
• G said that Production Cost, that look like messed up is intentional and supposed to be the balance factor. It doesn't look like it is, but it is only my personal opinion;
• G said that -1 factor in Terrain modifier table for Trans-Siberian Railway promotion is filtered by base DLL feature, and will not by applied. Of course topic is closed (as always), but I asked about possible solution or for help from other modders to apply the solution if it doesn't exist. Waiting for an answer;

Life of a modder is not easy...

 

[gwennog]

G said that -1 factor in Terrain modifier table for Trans-Siberian Railway promotion is filtered by base DLL feature, and will not by applied. Of course topic is closed (as always), but I asked about possible solution or for help from other modders to apply the solution if it doesn't exist. Waiting for an answer;

I assume you don't want to use lua for this function?
The wonder comes relatively late in the game and there is quite a way in the new APIs to only run a PlayDoTurn if all the conditions are met. It wouldn't be too heavy but I'm not an expert.

 

[Asterix Rage]

It wouldn't be too heavy but I'm not an expert.

Me neither but a lot of tiny light things make a heavy monster. When modding, we should take this fact into account.

Life of a modder is not easy...

I understand your feeling but let's hope VP team takes care of VP first. I'm not always happy when tables or things are implemented in VP just because a modmodmodder want it.

Why not to consider making things more simple, more straightforward?
Actually, the most difficult is to invent good simple things . Tetris forever is only 7 pieces in 7 colors. Many others shapes and colors were available...