[POLL updated on request] About Civ6 finishing and Civ7 initiation

[gcampono]

Sure I'd like more support for Civ VI, but IF the support we get is just like NFP (but I like the civs) with unpolished game modes (some ideas are good, but not well executed) and not REDESIGNING/INTEGRATING what already exists into a COHERENT game... then I'd prefer them to work on Civ7.

At a minimun they should make some reall effort to enhance:
1) AI (especially war, trade/diplomacy, try to win)
2) multiplayer stability (there are really to much disconnects, desyncs and unified gaming is a mess!)
3) redesign World Congress and diplomacy victory.

However I do not trust Firaxis will address these things (they don't even address some bugs) so I'd just prefer them to release the dll and hope some modder will make some great mod like VP.

 

[Casworon]

To me its obvious. Prolonged development with access to DLL modding

In my eyes 4x games need a long, long time in the oven to really mature. With this work either being done by the developers or continued by the community after the developers have moved on. This is especially true for the AI. People love to blame developers for poor 4x AI but in my mind its more the case that 4x AI takes a lot of work and a very long time to make.

With how much progress has been made with the AI during NFP, imagine where it would be if we got two or even three more NFP`s. Or even better if the DLL got released and the community kept working on it for years after, five years, ten years.

The moment Firaxis moves on the game gets frozen in time, and how is it going to be able to compete with other 4x games that just keep going. What will Civ VI have if another 4x game has its community working on its AI for another 10 years. It`s not really going to be able to compete

 

[Bibor]

I'd like to get another addition:
Fallout New Vegas style - get me Brian Reyonlds and Soren Johnson

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Can't pick any of the given Poll Options, because, while I think there is more they could do with Civ VI, I don't see any sign that they are going to do the things I think they should be doing: correct the lack of coherence between the myriad systems in place so they and the AI (I know, Fat Chance) can work together. Instead, Civ VI development is liable to take the form of pouring more 'bells and whistles' into an orchestra full of musicians who still can't read music, led by an armless conductor.

On the other hand, and I suspect it is already happening, I think the best option would be to do a complete Relook at every aspect of Civ in preparation for Civ VII, which should be planned/proposed to be more of a complete disconnect from all previous Civs than they've ever done.

Why? Because they now have alternative concepts and design decisions on display from Amplitude's Humankind, which will be on complete display in April next year (release date). That should stimulate any rational design team to take a hard look at everything that has been done in the past and say:
1. Does this work in Civ as well as the alternative in The Other Game?
2. Can we do what Humankind did here, but do it better because we have more Design/Graphics Assets?
3. Looking at the current alternatives, is there yet another way of doing something that combines the Best Parts of the Civ-Humankind models?

Right now, I cannot see any reason other than Hubris for setting the basic design concepts for Civ VII, given the potential for New Ideas coming out of the comparison between the (finished) Humankind and Civ available in 6 months or less. In the meantime, any spare graphics people not working on Civ VI projects or Other Games could always be put to work on graphic items useable in any future 4X historical, like better Terrain/Map Options (one place where Humankind has already gained major acclaim, although I think it remains to be seen whether the gorgeous maps play as well as they look).

As for the suggestion that they consult Me, they can get most of my suggestions from reading my posts on this Forum, especially in the Ideas for The Perfect 4X Historical Game thread that @AsH2 started.

 

[Zaarin]

Instead, Civ VI development is liable to take the form of pouring more 'bells and whistles' into an orchestra full of musicians who still can't read music, led by an armless conductor.

I thought Geoff Knorr and the Prague Philharmonic have done a great job.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Well, as is, I certainly am not buying a cranked out Civ 7 as Vanilla would be pointless and you'd see me here in a few years.

6 has been good, but if that's it, then it's a little disappointing. NFP has been w/e, and still have not bought it.

 

[whyidie]

Yes sort of like humankind does but for the same civ instead of culture hoping. To me static bonuses is what is holding civ back, and forces you to go gun for a specific victory condition since turn 1.

Once they have a hat full of ideas/problems/solutions like this is when they should start on 7. Would a change in leaders over time be enough to force a change in play ? Interesting!

I'm ok with AI performance overall. What I want to see out of the AI is more distinct performance. Once you get into mid-late game everyone seems to turtle up unless someone has a sizable lead. In effect it seems like all of the AI play like I do. Early combat (some more inclined than others), turtle, late combat or pursue random victory condition. The tutrle phase =. pretty boring after thousands of hours. Culture and science victories also seem pretty isolated in the sense that

So how to combat snowball ? More diplomacy. That can be more significant emergencies or more variation. We have religious and military. What about a culture or science runaway ? How do we bring them to heel via diplomacy ?

For me I'm looking forward to having the brakes loosened a little in the next version. Agonizing over district/wonder placement. Movement restrictions. Production times, especially for later cities. I've long been an advocate of less stuff to build, but am open to more buildings if it would help to lengthen the era times. On standard they seem to fly by so quickly you don't really get to utilize each eras uniques. Changing the pace leaves you with a lot of empty clicking.

Appreciate they tried to add more insight into AI behavior with intrigue system, but still think they can take further strides. Maybe call out significant constraints or advances.

The different game modes are indications to me that they are playing around with different ways of addressing various mechanics, similar to how they used BE. So I think they're getting close to having a full hat. I'd say don't rush it. I can probably stick it out for another year with 6.

 

[8housesofelixir]

So how to combat snowball ? More diplomacy. That can be more significant emergencies or more variation. We have religious and military. What about a culture or science runaway ? How do we bring them to heel via diplomacy ?

A "Space Race" emergency would be fun. I was once surprised to realize that the game doesn't have this emergency coded.

 

[Onii-chan]

I don't really think a "second NFP" is necessary. There are so few civs left that really feel missing and we've gotten more than enough game modes to play around with. Things would be much better off if the devs instead went back and tried to redesign and fix some already existing mechanics that simply don't work that well right now (like the world congress for example). Civ VI already has a bit of a problem with feature bloating. We don't really need more new stuff, we need the already existing stuff to get some well-needed attention. I'd also like to see some of the older and weaker civs get a revamp to bring them up to scratch

Other than that, well I guess releasing DLL-files would help with modding and maybe indirectly help resolving some of the game's already existing issues by letting the community do part of the work for them

Long-term though, if Civ VII is going to happen at some point then I guess that's probably the next major step. But rushing it would be pointless. It'd have to take the time it needs if so

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

So how to combat snowball ? More diplomacy. That can be more significant emergencies or more variation. We have religious and military. What about a culture or science runaway ? How do we bring them to heel via diplomacy ?

That's what we need. Start spamming Rock Bands and have all civs send them to the one with the lead in cultural victory.

A "Space Race" emergency would be fun. I was once surprised to realize that the game doesn't have this emergency coded.

Rewards for blowing up Power plants and Spaceports probably wouldn't be very diplomatic.
Not sure how else you would beat it other than try to do the science victory faster.

I don't really think a "second NFP" is necessary. There are so few civs left that really feel missing and we've gotten more than enough game modes to play around with. Things would be much better off if the devs instead went back and tried to redesign and fix some already existing mechanics that simply don't work that well right now (like the world congress for example). Civ VI already has a bit of a problem with feature bloating. We don't really need more new stuff, we need the already existing stuff to get some well-needed attention. I'd also like to see some of the older and weaker civs get a revamp to bring them up to scratch

Well I can certainly make a list of at least 8 more civs I'd like to see and a couple of game modes but I do understand that most of the civs would not be heavy hitters, at least in the minds of the developers or casual gamers now that only Portugal seems to be left. And most of them on my list have somewhat been "replaced" by others in the same geographical area.

 

[Onii-chan]

Well I can certainly make a list of at least 8 more civs I'd like to see and a couple of game modes but I do understand that most of the civs would not be heavy hitters, at least in the minds of the developers or casual gamers now that only Portugal seems to be left. And most of them on my list have somewhat been "replaced" by others in the same geographical area.

Yeah I mean obviously there are numerous civs that would have been good choices before, but which at this point seems rather redundant simply because other civs have sprung up in the same general area and would probably feel rather samey if implemented now. Like we still don't have the Huns which is obviously a big historical hole, but do we really need them now on top of the Mongols and Scythia? How different would they really be? It just doesn't seem worth it. And you can make the same argument in many other parts of the world as well, like the middle east had multiple possible options left but now that we're getting Babylon it just kinda feels like it's enough to represent that area along with the others we already had there, etc

 

[salty mud]

There's a lot of polish on the Civ VI dud, but a dud it will always remain. Best to forget and move on and hope they can retrieve some of the Civilization spirit with Civ VII.

Moderator Action: Please make an effort to be more civil in future. Have changed your post to comply with forum rules without changing your meaning. leif

 

[AntSou]

There's a lot of polish on the Civ VI dud, but a dud it will always remain. Best to forget and move on and hope they can retrieve some of the Civilization spirit with Civ VII.

What's the "Civilization Spirit" and can you give some examples of where you find it represented?

 

[Piranga]

Where's the poll option for "Let all work on 6 end. Then focus solely on Civ 7. No lack luster inbetween games like Beyond Earth. Just work on making the 7 AI capable of handling all the game mechanics, especially conquest and win conditions." ?

 

[pokiehl]

Where's the poll option for "Let all work on 6 end. Then focus solely on Civ 7. No lack luster inbetween games like Beyond Earth. Just work on making the 7 AI capable of handling all the game mechanics, especially conquest and win conditions." ?

Nah. This is doubtlessly the most successful Civ game ever, and myself and 99% of this forum are happily enjoying the new content and want more more more.

If you're this disgruntled with the game, I think it's kind of shortsighted to think that you're going to magically love Civ 7. Given the resounding success of this entry, I'd expect Civ 7 to take a lot of cues from Civ 6, which means you probably will hate it too.

 

[salty mud]

What's the "Civilization Spirit" and can you give some examples of where you find it represented?

Civilization IV, as it represented the pinnacle and end point of the 4X Civilization strategy game. Since then it's moved steadily into boardgame territory.

Nah. This is doubtlessly the most successful Civ game ever, and myself and 99% of this forum are happily enjoying the new content and want more more more.

If you're this disgruntled with the game, I think it's kind of shortsighted to think that you're going to magically love Civ 7. Given the resounding success of this entry, I'd expect Civ 7 to take a lot of cues from Civ 6, which means you probably will hate it too.

To be fair, he didn't say he'd magically enjoy Civ VII anywhere in his post. His post is indicating that it may be enjoyable if the AI is half-capable of winning the game and I would tend to agree with that.

 

[Piranga]

Nah. This is doubtlessly the most successful Civ game ever, and myself and 99% of this forum are happily enjoying the new content and want more more more.

If you're this disgruntled with the game, I think it's kind of shortsighted to think that you're going to magically love Civ 7. Given the resounding success of this entry, I'd expect Civ 7 to take a lot of cues from Civ 6, which means you probably will hate it too.

You're drawing an incorrect assumptions from that pokei. I love civ 6, as I did 5, 4, and 3 (and will likely 7). Me believing civ 6 isn't getting anything but more bloated while the core problem of a weak AI will NEVER be fixed until (i hope 7). Does not mean I'm disguntled. I simply want the company to focus on the next one years down the line. Try not being so upset if someone criticizes the game. Sad.

Moderator Action: Please do not get personal with other forum members, it is trolling. leif

 

[pokiehl]

You're drawing an incorrect assumptions from that pokei. I love civ 6, as I did 5, 4, and 3 (and will likely 7). Me believing civ 6 isn't getting anything but more bloated while the core problem of a weak AI will NEVER be fixed until (i hope 7). Does not mean I'm disguntled. I simply want the company to focus on the next one years down the line. Try not being so upset if someone criticizes the game. Sad.

I'm not upset at all You're drawing an incorrect assumption from my post.

Saying "stop working on the game immediately and move on" gives one the impression you dislike the game quite a bit. I'm just saying, based on Civ 6's success, I expect Civ 7 to be more like Civ 6 than unlike it. Surely we all hope for continued AI improvements, but the AI has gotten a lot better since the NFP has been released.

 

[AsH2]

Where's the poll option for "Let all work on 6 end. Then focus solely on Civ 7. No lack luster inbetween games like Beyond Earth. Just work on making the 7 AI capable of handling all the game mechanics, especially conquest and win conditions." ?

..
I love civ 6, as I did 5, 4, and 3 (and will likely 7). Me believing civ 6 isn't getting anything but more bloated while the core problem of a weak AI will NEVER be fixed until (i hope 7). Does not mean I'm disguntled. I simply want the company to focus on the next one years down the line.
..

That's "Prolonged" - there's no other way AI would be fixed by Firaxis unless they'd (in the meantime) get more bucks..

Read more in the GameDaily.biz article Firaxis Games on Civilization VI's New Frontier pass, and keeping the game fresh four years on

 

[Lord Lakely]

I think Firaxis should take their sweeeeeeet time to design Civ 7. Civilization 6 is a game rife with good ideas, but rather poor implementation. They need to rethink Diplomacy, Logistics, AI behaviour and infrastructure (I like districts but I don't think specializations should be *forced*. Specialization should be optional, and completing a district with only Scientific buildings should give you a Science boost, for instance, as opposed to getting the boost upon completion.), as well as put a *lot* of thinking in a user-friendly UI that explains each game mechanic in clear, plain sentences.

Just look at the worst aspects of Civ 6 (boring and flat endgame, illogical diplomacy, non-descript AI personalities, poor unit navigation, religious combat) and improve them without touching the greatness of the early game.