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(Poll) What civs should be a priority for alternate leader?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Krajzen, Feb 12, 2018.

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What civs would you choose as next to get some additional leader? Choose up to 4

  1. America

    44 vote(s)
    24.4%
  2. England

    40 vote(s)
    22.2%
  3. France

    114 vote(s)
    63.3%
  4. Germany

    55 vote(s)
    30.6%
  5. Spain

    34 vote(s)
    18.9%
  6. Rome

    49 vote(s)
    27.2%
  7. Poland

    4 vote(s)
    2.2%
  8. Netherlands

    3 vote(s)
    1.7%
  9. Norway

    7 vote(s)
    3.9%
  10. Russia

    55 vote(s)
    30.6%
  11. Egypt

    87 vote(s)
    48.3%
  12. Arabia

    20 vote(s)
    11.1%
  13. Persia

    20 vote(s)
    11.1%
  14. China

    83 vote(s)
    46.1%
  15. Korea

    4 vote(s)
    2.2%
  16. Japan

    19 vote(s)
    10.6%
  17. India

    2 vote(s)
    1.1%
  18. Khmer

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  19. Indonesia

    3 vote(s)
    1.7%
  20. Other

    5 vote(s)
    2.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Krajzen

    Krajzen Deity

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    To not make the poll bloated and limit it to 20 options, it doesn't include some options where I thought it'd be very unlikely big amount of people would want more leaders: Greece and Macedon :p Aztec, Mongolia, Zulu, Cree, Mapuche, Kongo, Nubia, Scotland, Scythia, Sumer, Brazil, Australia. Sorry.

    My votes go for
    - France, cuz I am still salty over choice of di Medici and France needs a buff in some form anyway
    - Persia, PLEASE NON-ACHAEMENID RULER with non military focus, Persia is great cultural and scientific power of history, not just cyrus/darius and expansionism : (
    - China, because it has too gigantic history to not get more attention; also, Shi Huangdi is laziest male choice possible other than (God forbid) Mao. Also he is not handsome :p
    - Arabia, because its my favourite civ, and because Saladin's depiction doesn't fulfill my need of powerful jihad warrior (arguably petty :p but I like Arabia too much)
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
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  2. pgm123

    pgm123 Emperor

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    In order:

    1. Arabia - for TSL purposes, having a leader with a capital of Medina or Damascus would be appreciated. Take Abu Bakr or Uthman with a religious-military focus. He can even have the ability for a Holy War with bonuses, as boring as that might be.

    2. Egypt - A non-Macedonian leader for Egypt. Someone from the Ancient Era. Either military or builder focused.

    3. France - Either Louis or Napoleon. Having Napoleon doesn't solve the problem of having an Italian lead France, though.

    4. Kongo - I voted China, because I think Qin is a rather boring choice. But in hind sight, the answer is Kongo because you need an alternative leader who can win a religious victory.
     
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  3. Krajzen

    Krajzen Deity

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    Honorary mention: India despite already getting one. Because it still has extremely long and diverse history and was usually badly treated by civ series :D it could get Mughal ruler to represent Muslims and gunpowder tolerant empires, or Chola ruler to get maritime bonuses, or many others.

    But France and China are higher priority. And for me Persia too.
     
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  4. Bjarque

    Bjarque Chieftain

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    I would like (and could see) America, France, Russia, and China getting alt leaders.

    America would be cool because it could have a stronger focus on science and production(being one of if not the closest civ in reality to reach the science victory). Maybe JFK? (didn't last too long but is well liked and is iconic)

    France is because I don't necessarily disagree with Catherine, but a more militaristic leader could be nice. I'm not too sure who it would be but maybe Philip Augustus.

    Russia because its mostly been focused on Westernizing leaders, and a Slavophile leader would be cool. I know it could be hard to find one that isn't awful but maybe just a leader that isn't so enamored with Western European culture (Nevsky?)

    China is probably the most important though. You can't have thousands of years of continued history representative of over one billion people represented by one guy. Wu Zetian would be nice again, or add some new faces like Kangxi or Taizong.

    I would personally also like Kubitschek for Brazil, an alt leader for Kongo, a Sasanian leader for Persia, and a Srivijaya leader for Indonesia, but I doubt those will come to fruition. I would also like a Mughal or Chola leader for India as well, or even Ahilyabai Holkar, but I'm okay with the two they have.
     
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  5. bbbt

    bbbt Emperor

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    I think France and Egypt are the main ones - I'd prefer Louis over Napoleon for France.

    Maybe it's because Peter's LUA is pretty weak, but I'd like to see an alternate leader for Russia - someone like Alexander Nevsky might be an interesting choice. However, one can't argue with the choice of Peter in general. There's a number of civs like that - America, England, Rome - where there are a number of alternate leaders I'd love to see, but Teddy/Victoria/Trajan are all perfectly solid choices so an alternate doesn't feel quite as 'necessary'.

    Maybe Qin as well, if only to have alternate leader to deal with instead of him.
     
  6. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    I picked India, China, France, Germany, but on second thought I think Egypt > Germany for this.

    - India has one real leader introduced by the DLC, so a second would be nice, especially given its tremendous history.
    - China's many dynasties and era presence could allow for interesting choices. Could easily go > 2, without even bringing back the Mao nonsense.
    - France is similar. The changeup with Catherine is cool, but it's unfortunately a low tier civ right now with rich potential alternates.
    - The idea of trolololol with more German vs Prussian vs other historical leaders from Germany was hard to pass up, but to be fair Egypt has numerous past reps and legit alternatives to them.

    Arabia, Russia, and Persia all caught my eye too.
     
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  7. Arianrhod

    Arianrhod Warlord

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    Gimmes: France, Egypt, and China.
    • Catherine, while interesting flavor-wise, is outright one of the poorest leader choice in the games that doesn't already have an alternate. (We don't need Napoleon, either; Louis would be just fine for a non-Catherine leader who isn't from V.)
    • Cleopatra is a cool personality and I don't disagree with her inclusion at all but she does a poor job of actually representing Egypt, so I feel like she's a good candidate for existing alongside a second leader.
    • China's been around for longer than pretty much any civilization here and lumping so many dynasties into one civilization led by one leader almost feels unfair when, had they not formed a continuous country, they could probably have existed in the game alongside each other. Tossing them a second leader feels like an alright workaround.
    For the fourth, I actually went for England. I know, I know: we already have four English civilizations as-is, and Victoria's not even that bad of a leader choice. This one's entirely personal bias, but really it just comes down to the fact that I don't see anything outside of the above three as terribly important beyond a wishlist level, and the next thing on my wishlist (and it's not even that high, I don't value alt leaders that much) is trying to save Elizabeth from falling out of the perfect attendance club. Please understand. Honestly I think it might even be fun if Elizabeth was made the 'standard' leader for England while Victoria was given the ability to lead both England and Scotland; this would also retroactively justify why both of them are so British thematically.
     
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  8. Vahnstad

    Vahnstad King

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    1 France (-> they need it most)
    2 Egypt (-> Old Egypt)
    3 Spain (-> because of Isabella + the civ could use a boost)
    4 Rome (-> a big leaderpool to choose from but honestly no idea who to pick)
    5 China (-> a big leaderpool to choose from but honestly no idea who)
    6 Germany (-> Otto Von Bismarck might be a bit too similar as Frederick)

    7 Russia (-> biggest problem is that a soviet leader wouldn't fit the civ abilities and uniques)
    8 Arabia (-> think Arabia has some potential)
    9 England (-> Scotland just got a medieval leader, so i doubt England needs to have a second leader
    10 Persia (-> rich history)
    11 Poland (-> has some nice options)
    12 America (-> they are definitely one of the contendors to get a leader, but I think Teddy does represent the civ nicely, and i doubt a new leader would add something to the civ.
     
  9. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Emperor

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    In Civ 6, America and France both lean very cultural, but were/are global military powers. So I'd like to see an alt-leader representing that. Obviously Napoleon. For America, maybe Truman.

    I'd also like a reverse of this for Germany. They could be a cultural powerhouse drawing mostly on musical history, although I'm not sure what leader to use for this period.
     
  10. Ezumiyr

    Ezumiyr Chieftain

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    I'm ok with Catherine for France, but I agree France could use another leader the most.
    I wouldn't like to see Napoléon. For me it's like proposing Hitler for Germany. I'm glad they stopped using a warmonger who caused the death of millions to represent my country. He's some kind of vile bubble that had to burst at some point. He's fine as a great general, but that's all.

    I'd be fine with an early modern era leader (Richelieu, Louis XIV), an industrial era leader (Napoléon III, Clémenceau) or an interwar period leader (Léon Blum), especially if they plan to expand on corporations for the next expansion.
     
  11. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    I only voted for the three Civs that lasted the longest: China, Rome, and Egypt. My vote isn't a reflection on their current leaders much - moreso, just a recognition that they are more varied than most other Civs given their massive history. Were I to choose a 4th, it'd be either England or France; but it couldn't pick between them. they're both deserving. With Persia rounding out any 6th spot.

    Hey... Kublai is looking at you! :mischief:

    JFK would be cool though probably unlikely because WWII kinda serves as the barrier where they don't take any leaders after from, which saves on more recent controversies being reignited. Having said that, like Teddy Roosevelt he comes from the moderate side of his party, so would be a pretty popular pick across the board.

    I do wanna see other French leaders than Napoleon...but in this big personality take on Civ, to me there is only one man for the job!

    Non...Napoleon. :p
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
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  12. GermanSettler

    GermanSettler Warlord

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    USA - Eleanor Roosevelt or Alexander Hamilton
    France - Louis XIV
    England - Elizabeth I
    Germany - Willy Brandt (alliance focused)


    I guess there could be some issues with Brandt, personality rights and such. One could also go for Friedrich Ebert, despite his rather tragic political heritage. But I would surely like one of the German leaders that stand more for the peaceful periods of German history.

    Eleanor Rossevelt and Alexander Hamilton were both not President, I know. But both show how power can be wielded and leadership be displayed outside of the office of head of government or state.



    Honorable mentions:

    Egypt - Ramesses II
    Russia - Elizabeth or Catherine

    Elizabeth Petronova often stands in the shadow of Catherine. But she is also a very interesting figure.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
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  13. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

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    France, Egypt, Persia perhaps to reflect their scientific achievements and the Mongols.

    I’d love to see Kublai Khaan like in cIV. A more culturally focused leader who was a builder and a conqueror.
     
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  14. DeutschDachs

    DeutschDachs King

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    I would like to see Russia get a Soviet leader... preferably Lenin. Would be a really cool flavor to add.

    Mongolia led by Tamerlane would be nice imo. He's always kind of third fiddle to Genghis and Kublai. But he's probably not different enough from Genghis in terms of LUAs though .

    An old kingdom Egyptian would be nice... Ramesses, Hapshetsut, anyone...

    Prussian Germany or Medieval England would also strike my fancy. Louis XIV for France please...
     
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  15. Kheznik

    Kheznik Warlord

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    I like to be very observational when it comes to topics like this, so here's a fairly long post about those observations, if it interests anybody:

    Spoiler :
    With Greece and India, I think the goal with multiple leaders is to represent multiple, separate entities within a civilization. Whether these entities existed simultaneously as rivals (Athens and Sparta), or in vastly different time periods, representing different cultures, languages, and religions, whilst still existing under the umbrella of a broader civilization (India). This gives us more representation per civ than any previous Civ game, as we can, for example, represent all the different cultures of India without balkanizing the country (pending future leaders), an act that would've been highly unlikely in this Eurocentric franchise before now.

    Now, India has a very broad design to it, which appeals to vast swaths of Indian history, but other civs, like England, are heavily focused on a very specific period in time (in this case Victorian England). Therefore, we got medieval Scotland instead of a new English leader.

    The first objective, I believe, is that these leaders have their own capitals. Secondly, and more importantly, they should represent different realms. It's weird enough to have Romans and Americans and Kongolese going at it, but for France to divide itself between two monarchs of the same dynasty? Hm. Unless we change it up and make the two leaders mutually exclusive, as in Civ II and IV, I don't see it happening. And as we've seen, that's not how it works in Civ VI.

    For these reasons, as awesome as it'd be to have a French leader like Philip Augustus or Charles Martel, it's unlikely as they both shared a capital city with Catherine: Paris. And besides, France has historically only been one realm, and any other "France" (Middle and East Francia) were more German than French. Any earlier than that and we get the Gauls, who hardly fit in with their very wonder-focused theme. Honestly, the only leader I can see them going with (if any) is Jeanne d'Arc, leading from Orleans, as not being a monarch and therefore independent of the French throne would work in her favour here. Though it would still be kind of awkward.

    Finally, these leaders should employ a dichotomy: the warrior-queen Gorgo gains culture from kills, whilst Pericles gains culture from city-states. Gandhi is all about eating dandelions while Chandi punches his teeth in. I can see something similar with the more defensive Teddy Roosevelt and internationalist Harry Truman, but America has only ever been one country (except for that one time, but they'll never go for it, because 2018).

    Anyways. Since they were first revealed, there were a few civs that jumped out at me as peculiar, mainly because they had different capitals than they've had in every other Civ game, though that is but one reason why they are absolutely ideal candidates for multiple leaders:

    1. Germany. As Barbarossa represents the medieval Holy Roman Empire from Aachen, a Prussian king could step up to lead the German people from Berlin. Both entities existed simultaneously, both existed within the umbrella of the German civilization, and a dichotomy between them exists in the form of the Protestant/Catholic schism.
    2. Egypt. Cleopatra the Greek queen of Alexandria vs. a real Egyptian king of Memphis or Thebes (or Akhetaten... please let it be Akhetaten).
    3. China. A militaristic Manchu Qing usurper leading from Beijing would stand in perfect contrast to the native Chinese wonder-building *false* emperor in Xian.
    4. Russia. Before Russia there was Muscovy, ruled by strong men of the Cossack line. True bearded Russian princes who defended their "backwards culture" (Peter's words not mine) from invaders from the east before Peter cut their beards and sold their traditions out to the west. The Ivans probably want their revenge.
    5. India. While the dichotomy is already explored between Chandi and Gandhi, there could still be room in India for the Mughals. The middle of two extremes, as it were. Though it's also possible they could pull a Macedon on this one, since, like the Macedonians, the Mughals were outsiders who weren't really considered "Indian" until they changed what "Indian" meant (and boy did they!). Other cultures could also be represented.

    There are surely others that "qualify" as well, but these are just the ones that stuck out to me. And frankly, I'm not banking on being completely right on this, but I'm feeling pretty good about it.

    Right, sorry for the long post :lol:.
     
  16. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    In order of pressing need:
    Persia
    Germany
    France
    Arabia (this is not that urgent since I consider it the best designed civ overall)
     
  17. mitsho

    mitsho Deity

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    Adding a new leader to an old civilization should add something new to the game. Thus, I would first look at the leader agendas that determine the playstyle of the AI. Also, a peaceful - aggressive split seems to make intuitive sense when having two leaders. Lastly, the opportunity to represent new groups/eras:

    Germany, because being dismissive of city-states takes away much of the game, and its other bonusses just fit well with a new LUA that emphasises the „Dichter und Denker“ civ possible with f.e. Frederick II.

    Rome, because Trajan is expansive and f.e. Scipio would allow to represent the maritime Republic that would go after the big dogs, not let them be (because they have a big empire).

    Russia, because having the Soviet Empire is just cool. Might be a bit difficult with all the religious bonusses they gave to Russia, so maybe they‘ll do their own civ (all the Grad names would allow for it, no?)

    For the last spot, I was unsure about Persia (Sassanids or Safavid) or China/Japan (in their very isolationist forms). But what is important is a change of gameplay style.

    I‘d go with Adenauer if you want a modern German leader. He fits so well as a big personality due to him being an inventor and all that. He‘s also a bit earlier in time than Brandt.
     
  18. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    Though to be fair, while others have talked about it happening, I've never drawn both Gorgo and Pericles in the same game. I do agree that it should be an option that you can turn off having two leaders from the same country appear in the same game.

    You do make some good points...
     
  19. chronoturner

    chronoturner Chieftain

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    My votes go to England, France, Germany, and China.

    I do not think any DLC Civs will be getting any alternate leaders, disqualifying all of those rather quickly.

    Now, my reasoning and potential leader choices for each Civ.

    England: England's unique ability appears to be culture focused, and yet Victoria is much more focused on expansion. Therefore, a Renaissance monarch who focused on culture, such as James I or Elizabeth I, whose reigns encompassed the Golden Age of British Theatre, would be good choices. James I would be an interesting choice as well, considering he was King of England AND Scotland, and also could have some sort of Faith related aspect, as he did commission the King James Bible. I'm more leaning for Elizabeth, however, as she is a more popular monarch and has been in Civilization previously, and wouldn't overlap with another existing civilization.

    France: I am not as upset about Catherine de Medici as some people are, but I do agree that France needs to be reworked, and badly so. Catherine fulfills the role of a spymaster that Cardinal Richelieu would, so therefore he is a bit redundant to have as an alternate leader. Napoleon, although certainly popular, could be argued is also an Italian ruler, and not actually French. Therefore, a culture focused French monarch, whose abilities help expand on the ones established already, would be the way to go. Examples include Louis XIV 'the Sun King' or Henry IV, both of the House of Bourbon, who are noted as fine monarchs. I think that Henry IV could be a finer choice, however, as he was noted for caring for his subjects and brought both peace and prosperity, therefore perhaps allowing for more time for producing Wonders?

    Germany: Germany has always been a relatively military focused civilisation, and I would like a more cultured presentation of it's history. Germany has been known for it's philosophers, scientists, and culture. Therefore, a cultured and well loved monarch such as Frederick the Great, who helped bureaucratise Prussia and helped expand diplomacy with other nations. Frederick would also represent the other side of German history - the Prussian dominated one. Frederick would probably have extra diplomatic card slots, as well as be able to gain culture from city states or alliances, although without seeming too much like Greece.

    China: Finally, China, with it's vast and long history, has included many notable leaders. From Wu Zetian, Taizong, and my personal favourite, Liu Xiu/Guangwu. Although I can't speculate as much as I had on the other ones, as I am not nearly as educated on Chinese history as European, I think it would be a waste to not give China an extra leader considering their vast history.
     
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  20. blackcatatonic

    blackcatatonic Queen of Meme

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    France: so many great and famous rulers were overlooked in favour of Catherine. I'd love to see a medieval king like Philippe-Auguste or Charles VII but really even Napoleon would be an improvement.

    England: I'd like a pre-Union leader to offer a different take on England. Elizabeth would be my favourite but Edward III or Henrys II, V or even VIII could all make for some cool leaders.

    Egypt: Again, given Egypt's long and illustrious history before the Ptolemys, I'd like to see another leader, ideally Ramesses II.

    Spain: More for gameplay reasons. And because Isabella was awesome and I miss her :mischief:
     
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