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(poll) What civs would you like to see in a hypothetical third expansion?

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Krajzen, Feb 6, 2019.

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What 8 civs would you like in a third expansion?

  1. Babylon

    118 vote(s)
    57.8%
  2. Portugal

    130 vote(s)
    63.7%
  3. Maya

    148 vote(s)
    72.5%
  4. Byzantium

    115 vote(s)
    56.4%
  5. Ethiopia

    108 vote(s)
    52.9%
  6. Italy

    60 vote(s)
    29.4%
  7. Vietnam

    88 vote(s)
    43.1%
  8. Morocco/Moors

    58 vote(s)
    28.4%
  9. Assyria

    52 vote(s)
    25.5%
  10. Austria

    38 vote(s)
    18.6%
  11. Burma

    17 vote(s)
    8.3%
  12. Chola/Tamil

    16 vote(s)
    7.8%
  13. Timurids

    15 vote(s)
    7.4%
  14. Armenia

    32 vote(s)
    15.7%
  15. Afghanistan

    13 vote(s)
    6.4%
  16. Hittites

    42 vote(s)
    20.6%
  17. Benin

    15 vote(s)
    7.4%
  18. Ashanti

    23 vote(s)
    11.3%
  19. Swahilli

    25 vote(s)
    12.3%
  20. Zimbabwe

    9 vote(s)
    4.4%
  21. Bulgaria

    20 vote(s)
    9.8%
  22. Bohemia

    11 vote(s)
    5.4%
  23. Ireland

    29 vote(s)
    14.2%
  24. Romania

    27 vote(s)
    13.2%
  25. Goths

    36 vote(s)
    17.6%
  26. Gran Colombia

    41 vote(s)
    20.1%
  27. Mughals

    24 vote(s)
    11.8%
  28. Olmec, Toltec, Zapotec etc

    19 vote(s)
    9.3%
  29. Navajo

    60 vote(s)
    29.4%
  30. Native Americans - other than Navajo

    68 vote(s)
    33.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Warlord

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    An EXTREMELY Valid Point, which is why this is about the third time I've repeated the arguments for the 'historical' as opposed to the 'Romantic' Druids in these Forums!

    It is so far only a possibility, but the Cretan Pre-Indo-European Civilization may have had this: it is now considered likely that 'Minos' was a title rather than an individual name, and no individual ruling family or personal names have been ferreted out of Linear A yet. On the other hand, it is widely considered likely that the 'Minoans' were not speaking or writing an Indo-European language, so this may also reinforce your point that for most of Europe, certainly most/all of Europe after the Indo-Europeans arrived, regnal or throne names were as close as they got.
     
    Zaarin likes this.
  2. Solomonic Wisdom

    Solomonic Wisdom Chieftain

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    The Franks, led by Charlemagne. Civ ability: Carolingian Renaissance.
     
  3. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    Deciphering Linear A and Minoan Hieroglyphics is sitting at the top of my linguistic wishlist. :( But yeah, the admittedly limited evidence is definitely against it being either Indo-European or Semitic.

    He borrowed his renaissance from the Anglo-Saxons who in turn got it from the Irish, so I'd rather have the Medieval Irish and Anglo-Saxons instead. :p
     
  4. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Warlord

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    This is definitely classic heavy but I would definitely take the top 8 and if they want to add the other two it would be just as appreciated.
     
  5. Solomonic Wisdom

    Solomonic Wisdom Chieftain

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    Civ ability: Carolingian Renaissance. Get Great Writer Points from other civilisations if their nearest city is within ten tiles of your borders. Palace provides +1 Great Writer Point.

    The Franks shaped Europe (as of course many others did as well) and deserve to be included. That we have modern European nations in the game should not exclude them automatically. A DLC covering early medieval civilisations?
     
    Meluhhan likes this.
  6. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    That works.

    I don't think including Francia as a distinct civ from France is warranted. Charlemagne as an alternate leader for France, however, is a compelling figure, and I'd love to see him included along with other Early Medieval civs/leaders--Alfred of Wessex, Æþelflæd of Mercia, Brian Boru of Ireland, Gruffydd ap Llywelyn of Wales, etc. I don't see it happening, though: the Early Middle Ages seem to be a much more niche interest compared to the High and Late Middle Ages, especially as the myth of the "dark ages" still weighs heavy on the popular imagination (thanks, GRRM).
     
    Morningcalm likes this.
  7. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Warlord

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    The 'Dark Ages' concept is a product of the Classical Education of the universities in Europe in the 19th - early 20th centuries,` wherein Everything Good was classical Greek and Roman, rediscovered in the 'Renaissance' and therefore in between the two there had to be a benighted era without the benefits of the Greco-Roman Golden Age.
    The fact that technologies like the waterwheel-driven mill were never lost but constantly improved throughout this period and new plows and harnesses invented that made extensive field agriculture in northern Europe possible, and even the Latin and Greek writings were never lost, merely 'misplaced' to Islamic Cordoba where as early as 1000 CE Christian European scholars were allowed to study them and commentary on them was circulating among scholars, monks, and other literati in Europe, was all forgotten, glossed over or simply ignored. We (well, Some Of Us) know better now, but the Popular View is still 19th century Academic.

    Not GRRM's fault, though - the 'Dark Ages' mindset and technology level has been mined by Fantasy Writers ever since Tolkien (who, remember, in his academic specialty was a philologist of 'Dark Age' Era languages in Britain, and so all too familiar with the lack of surviving 'native' written work from the period). GRRM is the latest and current Most Popular, but you'd be hard put to find anybody from the Grand Masters of Fantasy list that hadn't written one or more stories set in Early Medieval/Dark Age European-type background. In fact, L. Sprague DeCamp, one of the original GMOF members, wrote a series of fantasy novels using an Urban, Civilized protagonist, because he was sick and tired of all the Barbarian/Dark Age Heroes running around in the genre!

    As an aside, there is a Mod of Charlemagne as an Alternate Leader for either France or Germany, which is probably the way to represent him.
     
  8. Solomonic Wisdom

    Solomonic Wisdom Chieftain

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    From the little I know, their origins can be traced back to a tribe allied with Rome somewhere in what is today Belgium and they also ruled what are today the Netherlands and what is today the west of Germany as well as of what is today the north of Italy. They were initially alien to the Gallo-Romanic population and spoke a different language. Personally I think that a DLC including Byzantium, Mercia, etc., should include them as well. The Lombards would be a great addition as well. I agree it sadly will not happen ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  9. Solomonic Wisdom

    Solomonic Wisdom Chieftain

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    Charlemagne also as an officially released alternate leader for France and Germany would be good to see.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
    Jkchart likes this.
  10. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    I have to disagree with this very strongly. Tolkien had a great affection for the Middle Ages and understood that there was much that was beautiful as well as much that was ugly in the Middle Ages. Tolkien understood and loved his subject matter. NB that Tolkien was himself a Catholic, which gave him a very personal link to the pre-Protestant history of Europe. GRRM just strips out the beautiful and exaggerates the ugly. He's certainly not alone, but as he perpetuates two ugly stereotypes I despise (the Middle Ages were uncivilized and fantasy is all pulp quality) he'll get no quarter from me.

    Francia was the result of Frankish and Romance cultures, and it doesn't really bring anything to the table that France doesn't. Charlemagne would work better as an alt French/German leader.
     
  11. Solomonic Wisdom

    Solomonic Wisdom Chieftain

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    Let's agree to disagree. When Francia split into essentially three successor realms following the Treaty of Verdun in 843, only one of these developed into France, another into the Holy Roman Empire and Germany, and another into Lorraine (with a bit of a messy future involving Burgundy etc.). As someone who grew up in the region where France, Germany, and the Benelux meet, I have a bit of a different take on this. (Ask anyone in Aachen or Aix-la-Chapelle, and they probably will as well.) Having said that, I can see your point of view.
     
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