Popular protests in the EU

[mitsho]

They probably can‘t imagine a movement not orchestrated from above?

Coming back to the original topic of this thread, I find it interesting how the „Grand débat national“ of Macron was seemingly a succes and how the refusal of the „gilets jaunes“ to engage in it somehow seemed to delegitimate them (or is my impression wrong). Just shows that what Europe really needs is more ways for citizens (and non-citizens) to engage themselves, be they direct democratic, participative, representative or federalistic tools.

 

[EnglishEdward]

I'm starting to wonder if European leaders are having some private competition to de-legitimise their governments.

Who cares about the western bit of the EuroAsian continent.

Judging by the posters here the UK is secondly only to North Korea and Venezuela for the world lead.

 

[Patine]

Who cares about the western bit of the EuroAsian continent.

Judging by the posters here the UK is secondly only to North Korea and Venezuela for the world lead.

Do not speak for me. How could I possibly disregard the nation whose head-of-state is also the head-of-state of my nation in Canada. Besides, British television is FAR superior to the drivel that tends to make it onto American broadcast nowadays, and French television and movies are just bizarre and often nonsensical in plot.

 

[Traitorfish]

Who cares about the western bit of the EuroAsian continent.

Judging by the posters here the UK is secondly only to North Korea and Venezuela for the world lead.

North Korea is clearly in much sounder hands than the United Kingdom.

 

[Patine]

North Korea is clearly in much sounder hands than the United Kingdom.

The same political party has been in power for 71 years! And there's portraits, monuments, and celebrations to all their national executive heads, past and present, EVERYWHERE!

 

[Hamid.H]

Describing Antifa as an "organisation" tells us more about the fecklessness of the American security services than describing Antifa as "terrorists" tells them about their wickedness.

i know, its a joke since antifa is nothing but a "feel good" white liberal larp. the only thing theyve resisted is confronting their own white privilege and the systems of white supremacy that they continue to benefit from.

hh

 

[Hamid.H]

It kind of is to be fair.

fair to who?? fascists? the only reason why this was done was so those in power, supporting white supremacy could give the appearance that the alt-right and antifa are on equal footing, however all of the hate and violence is clearly coming from only one of those sides.

hh

 

[Patine]

i know, its a joke since antifa is nothing but a "feel good" white liberal larp. the only thing theyve resisted is confronting their own white privilege and the systems of white supremacy that they continue to benefit from.

hh

Okay, this cliched, stereotyping trope of yours is just getting ridiculous and braindead. If you're going to make social criticism or commentary, please make it sensible, backable, thought-out, and not spamming canned zeitgeist buzz terms and bad myths and stereotypes. Your credential is at ROCK BOTTOM!

 

[Traitorfish]

i know, its a joke since antifa is nothing but a "feel good" white liberal larp. the only thing theyve resisted is confronting their own white privilege and the systems of white supremacy that they continue to benefit from.

I... don't quite agree with this interpretation.

 

[Hrothbern]

Here an article on a book describing the critical mass (number of people) of mass protests and their likelyhood on domestic change.
It boils down to an experience value of 3.5% of the country's population to have a fair chance on a real change.

From my own experience, from two mass protests in NL with 2.8% (1981) and another with 3.8% (1983) of the Dutch population, I can add that the one of 2.8% had clearly more effect on the government than the 3.8% because the 2.8% was much more spontaneous and far bigger than anybody had expected, and the 3.8% was very well PR prepared, like an election.

3.5% of your country's population is a lot, especially when at least 50% comes totally unexpected. Just like with Woodstock (though there it was 2%-3% of the young generation segment)

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20190513-it-only-takes-35-of-people-to-change-the-world

 

[Hamid.H]

Okay, this cliched, stereotyping trope of yours is just getting ridiculous and braindead. If you're going to make social criticism or commentary, please make it sensible, backable, thought-out, and not spamming canned zeitgeist buzz terms and bad myths and stereotypes. Your credential is at ROCK BOTTOM!

I... don't quite agree with this interpretation.

um, how about you you guys explain your points of view rather than simply making vague and vapid statements. i mean, disagreeing is okay, but at at last say something of substance.

hh

 

[Patine]

um, how about you you guys explain your points of view rather than simply making vague and vapid statements. i mean, disagreeing is okay, but at at last say something of substance.

hh

I believe we both have at numerous points. Or, perhaps we just haven't to the satisfaction of his Sublime Pudisha Imperial Majesty.

 

[Hamid.H]

I believe we both have at numerous points. Or, perhaps we just haven't to the satisfaction of his Sublime Pudisha Imperial Majesty.

i offer my point of view and i respectfully ask you to reciprocate to encourage a worthwhile discussion. if youre not interested in that, then fine, but the insults really arent necessary.

hh

 

[Traitorfish]

um, how about you you guys explain your points of view rather than simply making vague and vapid statements. i mean, disagreeing is okay, but at at last say something of substance.

hh

I took it for granted that my politics are well-enough known on this forum that I wouldn't need to detail explicitly why I reject your weirdo synthesis of American liberal privilege theory and Maoist third worldism.

 

[REDY]

Austria will have new elections because corruption scandal. One of minister was caught to be eager to be corrupted by one of Russian oligarchs.

This should be quite blow to eurorealist camp.

 

[Hamid.H]

I took it for granted that my politics are well-enough known on this forum that I wouldn't need to detail explicitly why I reject your weirdo synthesis of American liberal privilege theory and Maoist third worldism.

why all of the hostility? do you sincerely expect everyone on this forum to have in depth knowledge of your political convictions well enough to read your mind?

if you dont want to discuss the topic why even post in the thread man?

hh

 

[Traitorfish]

why all of the hostility? do you sincerely expect everyone on this forum to have in depth knowledge of your political convictions well enough to read your mind?

Honestly, yeah, kinda.

 

[Kyriakos]

Seems Austria was so annoyed with being scolded for electing to pm someone who "admired Hitler's policies" that a few years later it is full fascist.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Coming back to the original topic of this thread, I find it interesting how the „Grand débat national“ of Macron was seemingly a succes and how the refusal of the „gilets jaunes“ to engage in it somehow seemed to delegitimate them (or is my impression wrong). Just shows that what Europe really needs is more ways for citizens (and non-citizens) to engage themselves, be they direct democratic, participative, representative or federalistic tools.

98+% of the French media are corporate (all the TV, most of the newspapers - some of the TV is State-owned but the management and employees behave as if in the private sector, which they almost always come from). They are fully biased when reporting on these topics. Funny enough, those are the same owners that funded the repairs for Notre-Dame and were hastily deducted 90% of their donations from their taxes. How cool is that ?
So, the information that filters outside France is not worth trusting.
The "Grand debate" has always been a scam. A more participative democracy is what the "yellow vests" are for. Social justice is at the core of their claims. It has nothing to do with the "oil tax". Meanwhile, the police goes crazy with repression, under direct orders from the government.

Independent radio : 5% of the audience. State-owned : 20-30% (with the same ambiguities as public TV). Corporate : the rest.
Radio is the land of free. Hertz me free !

 

[innonimatu]

Unrest at French universities after student sets himself alight over debts

Before dousing himself with petrol and setting himself on fire Anas K posted a Facebook message outlining his financial problems and said he was choosing to set himself alight outside the building that housed the regional student aid centre. It was, he wrote, a “political target … representing the education ministry and, therefore, the entire government”.
He wrote: “This year I am doing the second year of my bachelor’s degree for the third time. I have no grant. Even when I had one, I received €450 a month. How can one live on that? And after our studies how long will we have to work to pay our social charges to have a decent pension?”
He concluded by blaming France’s last three presidents and the far-right leader Marine Le Pen for his situation. “I accuse Macron, Hollande, Sarkozy and the EU of killing me by creating uncertainty for the future of everyone … my last wish is also that my colleagues continue the fight to put an end once and for all to this.”

The guilty parties of course paing this as "violence". Oh my. They should arrest this student for arson...

On Tuesday afternoon, Hollande, who led the French socialist government from 2012-17, had prepared to give his lecture at Lille University entitled Responding to the democratic crisis. A group of about 50 students forced their way into the Lille amphitheatre where they tore up copies of the former leader’s book of the same title. Hollande, who was in another room, left without seeing the demonstration.
The protesters brandished a banner, reading “solidarity and long live socialism”, and chanted “anti-capitalism” and “Hollande assassin”. Several videos posted on Facebook showed students, some with scarves covering their faces, throwing ripped books across the room and jostling with security guards.
On Wednesday Hollande issued a statement saying he understood that “legitimate” emotions were running high but regretted that “feelings turned into violence … leaving no place for dialogue”. He said the protest had robbed more than 1,000 students of the chance to discuss democracy with him at the event.
...
Government figures for 2015 showed more than a third of students received some kind of financial help from the state, but in 2017 the National Students Union of France (UNEF) estimated that almost 20% of students were living below the poverty line.
The Lyon branch of the student union Solidaires, of which Anas K was a member, called for nationwide demonstrations in support of him and described his setting fire to himself as a “deeply political, desperate act” aimed at a “fascist and racist system that breaks people”.
Students at Lyon 2 University voted to block their campus. They set up obstacles including rubbish bins across the entrances forcing lectures to be cancelled on Wednesday.
At the higher education ministry building in Paris, several dozen protesters forced open the gates and occupied the courtyard on Tuesday night, calling for the higher education minister, Frédérique Vidal, to resign. They left when police arrived. The words la precarité tue (hardship kills) were written on the ministry wall. Vidal told journalists: “Violence has no place in a university.”

Of course it is "violence" when someone dares protest poverty in any way that inconveniences important people and makes the news. More so if those are cowardlings who crow about "democracy" while running away from any confrontation with critics!

I guess that when the important people have the police dutifully shoot the students out of the street, or the university... that will be "dialogue"! Just like they dialogued with the yellow vests citizens, one kind of dialogue remarkable for producing a number of blind and dead people.

They didn't win then. The anger from the rising poverty and precariety is still brewing.