Popular protests in the EU
- Thread starter innonimatu
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Akka
Moody old mage.
Pretty low, and a non-existent chance of it doing anything (Macron's own party hold more than 50 % of the Assembly by itself).
It's just political discourse and posturing.
It's just political discourse and posturing.
Lexicus
Deity
@innonimatu I never got a chance to respond properly but I wanted to thank you for offering your thoughts on the interview I posted a little while back. I agree with most of what you were saying about the EU. A year or so ago I was in the "possible to reform EU" camp but I've since drifted out of that, I've concluded there is no possibility of reform within the EU and as such member states are better off going their own way, preferably by using their monetary sovereignty to reassert traditional leftist political priorities. Of course I'm under no illusions that accomplishing this will be easy with most of the national governments in the grip of either far-right crazies or "traditional" conservatives.
Yeah the three parliamentary groups left of Macron united behind one motion of no confidence (quite unexpected considering the tension between them), but it's just for the show. They hold like 15% of the seats, and Macron has more than half.
I see on the Dutch news that Macron promised the following actions this evening:
* Minimum wages go up with Euro 100 per month in 2019
* no tax on overtime hours
* a tax (increase) on pensioneers is stopped
* Employers "should" give their employees a year-end bonus, starting this December. IDK whether this is binding for employers or not. It is not quantified.
But this does not help self-employed people. That gilet jaunes action started AFAIK with a facebook complaint from such a self-employed person that had to drive a lot in her car for delivering parcels (in a rural areas IIRC).
I see on ILO that around 12% of the French employment is self-employment. I guess most farmers are.
~=> I do not see directly how much this helps the rural areas.
* Minimum wages go up with Euro 100 per month in 2019
* no tax on overtime hours
* a tax (increase) on pensioneers is stopped
* Employers "should" give their employees a year-end bonus, starting this December. IDK whether this is binding for employers or not. It is not quantified.
But this does not help self-employed people. That gilet jaunes action started AFAIK with a facebook complaint from such a self-employed person that had to drive a lot in her car for delivering parcels (in a rural areas IIRC).
I see on ILO that around 12% of the French employment is self-employment. I guess most farmers are.
~=> I do not see directly how much this helps the rural areas.
The minimum wage increase is actually BS. It was meant to rise by 25 euros already, then the rest is a rise in the "activity bonus" which is only for certain minimum wage workers. It was already meant to rise by 20 bucks, and the rest of the rise comes from a rise in the "activity bonus" that was meant for the next few years and that is moved forward. So in essence it's just an announcement to say that a 55 euros per month rise is advanced from 2020-2022 to 2019.
The year-end bonus will not be taxed, that's the announcement
The year-end bonus will not be taxed, that's the announcement
Oerdin
Deity
With a 9.2% unemployment rate (general population) and a "youth" unemployment rate of 21.5% (and I believe people under the age of 30 are counted as "youths" which is absurd) France should be eliminating the minimum wage not raising it. Everything flows from the dignity of having a job and doing work, life skills are learned via employment, and if you want to integrate all those 3rd worlders you need them working and not sitting on welfare.
Stop making it illegal for such people to work as obviously no one is willing to hire such low skilled people at the current minimum wage much less at a higher one. Once on the career ladder they will climb up but if you make it impossible for them to get on the bottom step they will never rise. Provide in work benefits if you must but get them working and many of your social ills will be lessened.
Stop making it illegal for such people to work as obviously no one is willing to hire such low skilled people at the current minimum wage much less at a higher one. Once on the career ladder they will climb up but if you make it impossible for them to get on the bottom step they will never rise. Provide in work benefits if you must but get them working and many of your social ills will be lessened.
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
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Much as I would like to see protesters set up a guillotine by the Elysée's gates, and Macron to either get the message or a once-in-a-lifetime experience of a proper french revolution, I agree that the time is not yet at hand to overthrow the kind of regime he so well embodies. But there is no doubt that these regimes are thoroughly rotted. The mass of the people no longer believe them, they haven't rebelled because now they don't yet believe in anything else. Is is symptomatic that police unions in France are calling a strike! If some organized group does rebel and attempt to seize power "unconstitutionally" with a half-credible programme, I don't believe anyone will come out to defend the current regimes, be it police, army or population. This is the way regimes fall.
And the way thing in Europe are, if this happens in one EU country, it will spread to others. Think a kind of 1848.
Akka
Moody old mage.
Yeah, I can totally imagine a bunch of scattered states trying to empower economic leftist policies in a world dominated by China and the USA
Most laws about consumers protection come from the EU, in fact. Each country going its separate way would in reality ends up with a bunch of race to the bottom (just like a bunch of proposals that were made shortly after the Brexit vote).
Pretty much.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
You ever notice how the noble capitalist drive towards self-enrichment suddenly becomes degenerate and perverse when poor people catch it.
Estebonrober
Deity
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"Greed is good" for me, not you.
You missed the part when Hollande effectively killed French economy with ridiculous 80% tax on rich leading to capital flight and reduction of state income. The tax reduction was required condition to bring some income back.
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Ironsided
Flower of happiness
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So, while the tax on wealthy forced that fat actor-turned-drunkard to move to the freedumb of Moscow, Russia – it also killed the French economy? The things you learn on the internet. Marvellous. To think it only took losing the daily consumption of eleven bottles of wine and two kilos of duck liver pâté to wreck the French economy.
In what world do the French qualify as "poor"?
Patine
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Strangely, this very concept, or extremely close to it, in Victorian Britain, as an "unofficial tradition," forms the origin of the Commonwealth of Nations post-Christmas holiday Boxing Day (though, I believe in the original case, the employer gave their employees a box of treats, kick-knacks, and small numbers of luxury foods, like expensive cheese and sausage, usually beyond their income range, rather than a monetary bonus, but the idea was there).
Ironsided
Flower of happiness
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Our world, here on Planet Earth. Seems you’re confusing the wealth of a nation with the wealth of its inhabitants. A VERY common problem in discussions on CFCOT. Have you ever visit Paris? Its home to some of the poorest (and richest) people on the planet.
Patine
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Some of the poorest on the PLANET. Have you been to Kampala lately? Most who indulgently think they've seen "the worst poverty in the world" in their First World backyards have a whole new vista of squalor and destitution to behold on levels previously unimagined when visiting the "Kabaka's impala hunting ground" (literal translation of the city's name from a contraction in Kiswahili).
I've visited a number of times, yes.
As to how a country with a minimum wage of €1500 could be home to some of the poorest people on the planet (
), I have no idea.
Ironsided
Flower of happiness
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The poorest people in Paris do not earn a minimum wage. They have to cross the street and get that job they are duly told they cannot have. They are the ones who smell really bad and make you change train car from the Airport.
But it’s true these particular protests seem to be more about the minimum wage. Very few protests cover the properly poor. Their situation is for the most part ignored completely by everyone, including themselves. Helping them would require an actual effort on society’s behalf. Who is willing to do that when you’ve got money to make, ey?
Back to minimum wage then – it’s your notoriously undervalued compensation for the work you put in for your employer - Amazon, McDonalds and what have you. Just like you cannot evaluate the wealth of people by the wealth of the nation, you cannot compare minimum wage from one place to another. If you are born and raised in Paris and get a minimum wage job you will not be able to stay in Paris on that pay. You can’t afford to. This is why the people I heard interviewed were protesting. They work hard and still get shat on - asked to make way for more profitable people. “You can see your family and friends on weekends” - if you can afford the trips.
Just ask yourself – why are you belittling these issues and these people’s concerns? What are you gaining? Who are you supporting?
Or you can just respond with a rolling smiley – that’s always a valid option for people who don’t care.
But it’s true these particular protests seem to be more about the minimum wage. Very few protests cover the properly poor. Their situation is for the most part ignored completely by everyone, including themselves. Helping them would require an actual effort on society’s behalf. Who is willing to do that when you’ve got money to make, ey?
Back to minimum wage then – it’s your notoriously undervalued compensation for the work you put in for your employer - Amazon, McDonalds and what have you. Just like you cannot evaluate the wealth of people by the wealth of the nation, you cannot compare minimum wage from one place to another. If you are born and raised in Paris and get a minimum wage job you will not be able to stay in Paris on that pay. You can’t afford to. This is why the people I heard interviewed were protesting. They work hard and still get shat on - asked to make way for more profitable people. “You can see your family and friends on weekends” - if you can afford the trips.
Just ask yourself – why are you belittling these issues and these people’s concerns? What are you gaining? Who are you supporting?
Or you can just respond with a rolling smiley – that’s always a valid option for people who don’t care.
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