Portugal

[Eagle Pursuit]

Sounds nice.

 

[Atlas627]

I'm thinking about existing functionality (we have code and AI logic already in place for making adjacent things stronger).

I'd probably give it Gold and Production as a base (Feitoria = Factory = Trading Post), 25% CS defense, and +1 Gold on adjacent coastal tiles. Or perhaps +1 Gold +1 Production on adjacent Fishing Boats and Plantations if we want to make it have more punch.

G

We also have existing functionality for getting stronger per adjacency (Terrace Farm).

Either is fine with me, though I think buffing the sea is more Portuguese. It encourages a tall city a little bit more to make use of the small buff to each tile rather than the huge buff to one tile, and the Portuguese make more thematic sense that way.

I think Gold and Production base are the way to go. +1 gold +1 production on Fishing Boats + Plantations seems a little too restrictive to me, since you'll have to find a tile that borders 2 types of resources, on the coast, that you didn't want to improve with anything else. I think its a cool idea we can try, but I think I'll prefer the +1 gold to all adjacent coast.

I assume we'd remove the double gold UA for this change.

 

[Funak]

I'm thinking about existing functionality (we have code and AI logic already in place for making adjacent things stronger).

I'd probably give it Gold and Production as a base (Feitoria = Factory = Trading Post), 25% CS defense, and +1 Gold on adjacent coastal tiles. Or perhaps +1 Gold +1 Production on adjacent Fishing Boats and Plantations if we want to make it have more punch.

I still think letting it get stronger for each adjacent ocean(coast) tile would be more interesting, but adding yield to adjacent tiles isn't too bad.

I don't really think having it add defense is necessary. Production and gold with a possible splash of culture would probably be the best combination, there aren't that many production-based UIs so it feels pretty unique.

 

[Gazebo]

We also have existing functionality for getting stronger per adjacency (Terrace Farm).

Either is fine with me, though I think buffing the sea is more Portuguese. It encourages a tall city a little bit more to make use of the small buff to each tile rather than the huge buff to one tile, and the Portuguese make more thematic sense that way.

I think Gold and Production base are the way to go. +1 gold +1 production on Fishing Boats + Plantations seems a little too restrictive to me, since you'll have to find a tile that borders 2 types of resources, on the coast, that you didn't want to improve with anything else. I think its a cool idea we can try, but I think I'll prefer the +1 gold to all adjacent coast.

I assume we'd remove the double gold UA for this change.

I don't think you need to drop the double gold for this.

I still think letting it get stronger for each adjacent ocean(coast) tile would be more interesting, but adding yield to adjacent tiles isn't too bad.

I don't really think having it add defense is necessary. Production and gold with a possible splash of culture would probably be the best combination, there aren't that many production-based UIs so it feels pretty unique.

The 25% defense is thematic (feitorias were coastal fortresses), but yeah, bonus production feels nice.

G

 

[Atlas627]

I don't think you need to drop the double gold for this.



The 25% defense is thematic (feitorias were coastal fortresses), but yeah, bonus production feels nice.

G

I see no point in keeping the double gold either. It feels like nothing. But it doesn't really matter!

Are you technically making 2 different versions of the Feitoria, one for owned lands and one for CS lands? Or one for built and one for Nau'd? If you aren't (because that's gross), then it should have the defense and sight just like the current Feitoria.

What happens to the number of Feitorias you can build in a single CS? Will you get even more luxuries?

 

[Funak]

What happens to the number of Feitorias you can build in a single CS? Will you get even more luxuries?

Why would that matter? The luxury you get is like those you get for allying CS, you can't trade them, meaning it doesn't matter how many of them you have.

 

[Gazebo]

I see no point in keeping the double gold either. It feels like nothing. But it doesn't really matter!

Are you technically making 2 different versions of the Feitoria, one for owned lands and one for CS lands? Or one for built and one for Nau'd? If you aren't (because that's gross), then it should have the defense and sight just like the current Feitoria.

What happens to the number of Feitorias you can build in a single CS? Will you get even more luxuries?

No, the siphon is a bool, so it won't trigger more than once. Besides, you wouldn't be able to build them with workers in CSs anymore, just in homeland. Nau would be only way to get Feitorias in CSs. There'd only be one Feitoria overall.

G

 

[Atlas627]

Why would that matter? The luxury you get is like those you get for allying CS, you can't trade them, meaning it doesn't matter how many of them you have.

Monopolies. Also, I believe if you trade away all your "real" luxuries, then they get pillaged, the "fake" ones do get traded away. Minor, but it matters.

No, the siphon is a bool, so it won't trigger more than once. Besides, you wouldn't be able to build them with workers in CSs anymore, just in homeland. Nau would be only way to get Feitorias in CSs. There'd only be one Feitoria overall.

G

Perfect, I love it.

 

[Funak]

Monopolies. Also, I believe if you trade away all your "real" luxuries, then they get pillaged, the "fake" ones do get traded away. Minor, but it matters.

CS gifts and feitoria luxuries do not trigger monopolies.
I don't think that pillage thing works either, believe I've tested it at some point actually.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

No, the siphon is a bool, so it won't trigger more than once. Besides, you wouldn't be able to build them with workers in CSs anymore, just in homeland. Nau would be only way to get Feitorias in CSs. There'd only be one Feitoria overall.

G

One problem. Since workers can't build them in City-states any more, it means you can't have Feitorias in city-states on landlocked bodies of water. And as I recall from the last Feitoria dicussion, Funak had a problem with not being able to do landlocked city-states.

 

[Atlas627]

CS gifts and feitoria luxuries do not trigger monopolies.
I don't think that pillage thing works either, believe I've tested it at some point actually.

Well then nvm!

One problem. Since workers can't build them in City-states any more, it means you can't have Feitorias in city-states on landlocked bodies of water. And as I recall from the last Feitoria dicussion, Funak had a problem with not being able to do landlocked city-states.

Oh, right. I don't think that's a problem, though. Essentially the Nau is more unique (can build Feitorias in coastal CS) and the Feitoria is now a normal UI. So instead of losing both the Nau and the Feitoria on land, they only lose the Nau. Seems like Funak would like that.

 

[Funak]

One problem. Since workers can't build them in City-states any more, it means you can't have Feitorias in city-states on landlocked bodies of water. And as I recall from the last Feitoria dicussion, Funak had a problem with not being able to do landlocked city-states.

I have absolutely no problem with this at all now that the feitoria actually fills a role outside of city-states. If you necessarily want to get Nau in there you can build a canal or settle a city on that body of water.


This change would of course mean that Portugal is even less useful on landbased maps, but that's fine by me if they excel at oceanmaps.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I have absolutely no problem with this at all now that the feitoria actually fills a role outside of city-states. If you necessarily want to get Nau in there you can build a canal or settle a city on that body of water.


This change would of course mean that Portugal is even less useful on landbased maps, but that's fine by me if they excel at oceanmaps.

Okay then.

 

[zautos]

how do you build them in city states?

 

[Funak]

how do you build them in city states?

You use the Nau trade mission ability.

 

[mavol6]

i think portugal needs like a small ua addition, it feels like it is like france (most of it bonuses are in the middle ages), While both UI are great the portuguese one is more restrictive (coast and cant be adjacent). So maybe a ua addition couldnt hurt, maybe bump the science from routes a bit?, maybe a bonus to coastal cities?.

Well that of course if portugal isnt powerful already, i played agaisnt them and they seemed behind.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Portugal UA is better at longer game speeds because science value per turn scales too, but it could be a bug. On epic it's 3 Science per turn which turns into 6 on medieval (and I bet it's 4/8 for marathon), which I doubt is truly intended since per turn values are worth the same among difficulties, it's only one-time bonuses that don't.

But even on Epic it's only ok but rather boring unless you snatch Petra and/or Colossus, that's when it becomes good. On Marathon, if my assumption that it gives 4 S 4 GAP/GG points per turn is correct, it would be awesome, if you snatch some cool TR wonders you're basically almost Korea. However on Quick, if it scales down, I bet this UA with 1 S/GA/GG would be beyond awful.

It's a way stronger UA than the worst ones like Spain's (though admittedly Mare Clausum is not even 5% as interesting as Conquista) and I find it okay on Epic but I admit it wouldn't be very strong if the Science was turned down.

I feel the resource diversity trade route bonus should come back, maybe slightly changed if it was broken/useless or something. I don't know why it's gone, it'd incentivise foreign trade, seems cool. Some other addition could be implemented instead, maybe a small one-time +Food +Gold bonus in the capital/all cities after meeting a CS for the first time? Encourages exploration even further. Or just + another yield to the UA because just increasing Science seems like a bad idea, that's how civs turn into Koreas.

 

[Funak]

Portugal UA is better at longer game speeds because science value per turn scales too, but it could be a bug. On epic it's 3 Science per turn which turns into 6 on medieval (and I bet it's 4/8 for marathon), which I doubt is truly intended since per turn values are worth the same among difficulties, it's only one-time bonuses that don't.

But even on Epic it's only ok but rather boring unless you snatch Petra and/or Colossus, that's when it becomes good. On Marathon, if my assumption that it gives 4 S 4 GAP/GG points per turn is correct, it would be awesome, if you snatch some cool TR wonders you're basically almost Korea. However on Quick, if it scales down, I bet this UA with 1 S/GA/GG would be beyond awful.

It's a way stronger UA than the worst ones like Spain's (though admittedly Mare Clausum is not even 5% as interesting as Conquista) and I find it okay on Epic but I admit it wouldn't be very strong if the Science was turned down.

I feel the resource diversity trade route bonus should come back, maybe slightly changed if it was broken/useless or something. I don't know why it's gone, it'd incentivise foreign trade, seems cool. Some other addition could be implemented instead, maybe a small one-time +Food +Gold bonus in the capital/all cities after meeting a CS for the first time? Encourages exploration even further. Or just + another yield to the UA because just increasing Science seems like a bad idea, that's how civs turn into Koreas.

It should definitely not scale with gamespeed.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

It should definitely not scale with gamespeed.

Yeah I agree, it makes it the worst UA ever on Quick (if it scales down to 1, didn't try, don't know - could still be 2 if it scales down weirdly or something), rather bad on normal, ok-goodish depending on wonders on Epic and potentially anything between very good to almost Korea tier on Marathon, that's the only UA that works like this.

That's also why I reported it as a bug in the right topic.

 

[Revolutionist_8]

I feel the resource diversity trade route bonus should come back, maybe slightly changed if it was broken/useless or something. I don't know why it's gone, it'd incentivise foreign trade, seems cool.

Hold on, that bonus was taken away?