Portugal

Anyways, as I see it, there are three possible solutions to the Feitora problem, four if you like compromises, but I don't.

1. We remove the existing feitora effect and replace it with a normal Unique improvement, buildable in your territory that provides you with some bonuses (can be discussed in details later)

2. We keep throwing duct-tape at the current feitora, the one you build in city-state territory, and hope that it will somehow turn out 'not stupid'.

3. We scrap the Feitora and replace it with a building, possibly a unique custom-house(this would move the Hanse back to a bank) or a Harbor.
 
Funak said:
He wasn't. Programmers work that way, they just assume everyone else understands their mumbo-jumbo just because it is easy for them :D. Trust me I was forced to go a course in programming and all programmers act like that.
Click to expand...

I got my degree in programming (and game design). I hated every minute of it because the programmers were almost universally pretentious :) :) :) :):) :) :) :):) :) :) :):) :) :) :):) :) :) :):) :) :) :):) :) :) :)s, so I understand where you are coming from. The game design kids had their own problems, but at least they weren't jerks.

Gazebo does not give me that impression, so I maintain that he is trolling you.
 
You guys are both failing the offtopic rules, you have to mix at least one line of ontopic stuff in with it.

On that topic, lets go back to Portugal :D
 
Funak said:
Anyways, as I see it, there are three possible solutions to the Feitora problem, four if you like compromises, but I don't.

1. We remove the existing feitora effect and replace it with a normal Unique improvement, buildable in your territory that provides you with some bonuses (can be discussed in details later)

2. We keep throwing duct-tape at the current feitora, the one you build in city-state territory, and hope that it will somehow turn out 'not stupid'.

3. We scrap the Feitora and replace it with a building, possibly a unique custom-house(this would move the Hanse back to a bank) or a Harbor.
Click to expand...

The feitoria's ability to access city-states' resources for happiness is one of my favorite abilities in the game. I like to leverage it with the Order policy that gives you bonus Tourism vs. less happy civs. I would prefer to add functionality to this rather than scrap it.
 
Eagle Pursuit said:
The feitoria's ability to access city-states' resources for happiness is one of my favorite abilities in the game. I like to leverage it with the Order policy that gives you bonus Tourism vs. less happy civs. I would prefer to add functionality to this rather than scrap it.
Click to expand...

I respect your opinion, I just figured I'd share exactly why I dislike this aspect of the feitora.

  1. First of all, Feitora requires city-states to be coastal(or at least close enough to the coast), it also requires the city-state to have tiles open on the coast, weird of me to bring this up but I've actually run across plenty of city-states where all their coastal tiles were blocked by resources. Having uniques with terrain requirement is fine as long as it is in any way within your control, where city-states settle is completely out of your control. If your UB/UA/UU requires you to be coastal to work and you spawn inland you still have the ability to fight your way to the coast to make use of it (or restart the game :D), the only thing you can do to affect the city-states is trying to bait it into conquering coastal cities so you can at least build feitoras in those. For this reason the Feitora pretty much kills Pangaea as well as other non-ocean maps (highlands, great plains and so on)
  2. The reward gained from the Feitora is completely random, yes there is guaranteed to be 2 (I think) luxuries completely unique to city-states in every game but even assuming those two city-states don't fall under catagory 1, all the rest of the city-states can theoretically have the exact same luxury, leaving you with limited to no reward for your work.
  3. You gain all the benefits of the feitora from simply allying the city-state diplomatically, so once you've earned a city-state as an ally a feitora in that city-state (or any other city-state with the same resources) is completely pointless. This means that the further you get towards diplomatic victory, the worse your UI gets. For this reason the Feitora completely kills the Diplomatic victory option for Portugal.
  4. Feitoras promote conquering city-states to get the benefit of the yields from the Feitora improvement. However attacking city-states is a diplomatic nightmare, and the mediocre yields on the Feitora doesn't even come close to making it worth it.
  5. The currently best way to make use of the yields on the Feitora is planting a city close to a city-state, building a feitora right on the border, getting a great general from your UA and using that to build a citadel on the border to the city-state, gaining control of the Feitora. This makes absolutely no sense neither historically or ingame. It feels super gamey and super silly.
 
GamerKG said:
I got my degree in programming (and game design). I hated every minute of it because the programmers were almost universally pretentious :) :) :) :):) :) :) :):) :) :) :):) :) :) :):) :) :) :):) :) :) :):) :) :) :)s, so I understand where you are coming from. The game design kids had their own problems, but at least they weren't jerks.

Gazebo does not give me that impression, so I maintain that he is trolling you.
Click to expand...

Final off-topic point. I'm a teacher and a writer by trade, not a programmer. This is just a hobby. If I ever seem snappy, it's because I really want people to learn new things (ahem Funak Github cough), and that's what I enjoy.

G
 
Gazebo said:
Final off-topic point. I'm a teacher and a writer by trade, not a programmer. This is just a hobby. If I ever seem snappy, it's because I really want people to learn new things (ahem Funak Github cough), and that's what I enjoy.
Click to expand...

Then you're an amateur programmer, it doesn't make you any less of a programmer :D.
Now stop being off-topic and do something on-topic already, like shutting down 1 and 3 because they are full reworks, or some other unreasonable thing that you usually do :D
 
Funak said:
I respect your opinion, I just figured I'd share exactly why I dislike this aspect of the feitora.

  1. First of all, Feitora requires city-states to be coastal(or at least close enough to the coast), it also requires the city-state to have tiles open on the coast, weird of me to bring this up but I've actually run across plenty of city-states where all their coastal tiles were blocked by resources. Having uniques with terrain requirement is fine as long as it is in any way within your control, where city-states settle is completely out of your control. If your UB/UA/UU requires you to be coastal to work and you spawn inland you still have the ability to fight your way to the coast to make use of it (or restart the game :D), the only thing you can do to affect the city-states is trying to bait it into conquering coastal cities so you can at least build feitoras in those. For this reason the Feitora pretty much kills Pangaea as well as other non-ocean maps (highlands, great plains and so on)
  2. The reward gained from the Feitora is completely random, yes there is guaranteed to be 2 (I think) luxuries completely unique to city-states in every game but even assuming those two city-states don't fall under catagory 1, all the rest of the city-states can theoretically have the exact same luxury, leaving you with limited to no reward for your work.
  3. You gain all the benefits of the feitora from simply allying the city-state diplomatically, so once you've earned a city-state as an ally a feitora in that city-state (or any other city-state with the same resources) is completely pointless. This means that the further you get towards diplomatic victory, the worse your UI gets. For this reason the Feitora completely kills the Diplomatic victory option for Portugal.
  4. Feitoras promote conquering city-states to get the benefit of the yields from the Feitora improvement. However attacking city-states is a diplomatic nightmare, and the mediocre yields on the Feitora doesn't even come close to making it worth it.
  5. The currently best way to make use of the yields on the Feitora is planting a city close to a city-state, building a feitora right on the border, getting a great general from your UA and using that to build a citadel on the border to the city-state, gaining control of the Feitora. This makes absolutely no sense neither historically or ingame. It feels super gamey and super silly.
Click to expand...

Those are all legitimate criticisms, both individually and together. Except the one about neglecting diplomatic relations with city-states. The luxury happiness is only one small benefit to being allies with them. That criticism is not as big.

I feel that supplimenting the functionality is better than replacing it. There needs to be a reason to build it in city-states where you're not concerned about accessing the luxuries. Perhaps it can bump up the influence rest level by 5 points if you already gain happiness from the luxuries that the city-state has.
 
Eagle Pursuit said:
Those are all legitimate criticisms, both individually and together. Except the one about neglecting diplomatic relations with city-states. The luxury happiness is only one small benefit to being allies with them. That criticism is not as big.
Click to expand...
You misunderstand, I didn't say that the Feitora replaces being an ally, I said that being an ally make the Feitora completely worthless, which means if you're going for diplomatic victory, you don't have a UI.
 
Funak said:
You misunderstand, I didn't say that the Feitora replaces being an ally, I said that being an ally make the Feitora completely worthless, which means if you're going for diplomatic victory, you don't have a UI.
Click to expand...

So I did. But still, it would make us both happier if there were other reasons to use the UI in city-states. I've suggested several already. Combining our brains, we can surely devise one which is mutually safisfying.

What if there were different functions depending on the city-state type?

Examples:
Commerce city-states: borrow luxuries for happiness

Cultural city-states: reduces social policy cost 3% per

Religious city-states: increases religious pressure in the city-state for your dominant religion

Mercantile city-states: 3% growth per

Militaristic city-states: Feitoria acts as a Portueguese-owned citadel

Or something along those lines.
 
Gazebo said:
I'll reiterate that full reworks are not currently on the table. There's a slew of table options available to you, however. Explore the improvements.xml file in the Civ install.
Click to expand...

I'll reiterate that since we are non-programming plebeians we have no idea what full rework means, so you'll have to shut down each idea manually :D
 
Funak said:
I'll reiterate that since we are non-programming plebeians
Click to expand...

lmao plebians. he can pull out a word like plebian but he can't use notepad. #thisguy

i don't have any particular interest in portugal, i don't know why i just really hate the way maria looks, but i am going to take a look at that improvement file G is directing you towards =)
 
Deadstarre said:
lmao plebians. he can pull out a word like plebian but he can't use notepad. #thisguy

i don't have any particular interest in portugal, i don't know why i just really hate the way maria looks, but i am going to take a look at that improvement file G is directing you towards =)
Click to expand...

I know know to use notepad, I just don't know if G was shutting down my all both of my suggestions, one of them or Eagle Pursuit's suggestions.

Also I do think my spelling of Plebeian is correct, if that's what you were bashing at.
 
Funak said:
I know know to use notepad, I just don't know if G was shutting down my all both of my suggestions, one of them or Eagle Pursuit's suggestions.

Also I do think my spelling of Plebeian is correct, if that's what you were bashing at.
Click to expand...

Probably mine. I got a little carried away and neglected to bear in mind the programming load.
 
Eagle Pursuit said:
Probably mine. I got a little carried away and neglected to bear in mind the programming load.
Click to expand...

Might just as well have been one of mine or both of them (even all three, I'm not a scientist damnit!). I mean I've probably been the source of most of G's nightmares for the last year :D.
 
Funak said:
I know know to use notepad, I just don't know if G was shutting down my all both of my suggestions, one of them or Eagle Pursuit's suggestions.

Also I do think my spelling of Plebeian is correct, if that's what you were bashing at.
Click to expand...

I wasn't bashing anything. That was a great word is all (:
 
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