Possible bug?

[capnvonbaron]

I was playing a monarch 20K OCC and stumbled on something interesting but I don't know if I'd consider it a bug, really... this is vanilla, so some things may not transfer.

Several civs had struck an alliance against me, as is usually the case. I didn't care so much, as I had plenty of knights to strike down the invading cavalry and muskets as soon as they got off their boats, but the constant streams of ironclads and frigates bombarding my coast was getting annoying and making IBTs last for-bloody-ever. I also knew that I would run out of knights eventually, and if one of the three got my french neighbors in on the alliance, she would end me -- simple as that. She had cavalry armies and musketeer armies. Yes, armies. Plural. The ones that require a leader. I'd previously seen the work she did on Jules and Mao, I didn't want to be repeat history. I had six wonders and a great city to protect!

So I went to the Alex, Joan's biggest bosom buddy, to negotiate peace, figuring I'd get a fair deal for defending myself honorably. Well, not really... he demanded all my gold (like, 34 I think ) for peace, to which I obliged because 34 gold was definitely worth keeping the Pink Horde away. Next up... Shaka, the one EVERYONE hated. In the negotiation window, even peace wouldn't fly. So I asked, "what do you need for this deal to work?" I had no gold, an incomplete world map, no spare luxs or resources, no workers in the city, backwards in techs.. so basically nothing of value.

As soon as I clicked it, the side windows went away and Shaka exclaimed "Bootlicking dog! We demand you pay for peace!" (or something like that). His payment demands: Peace treaty for Peace treaty. So I clicked "that sounds fair", and *angels sing* peace broke out. Just to see if I could do it again, I went Lincoln and had essentially the same thing happen. Did it several more times through the course of the game, too. (Shaka kept demanding stuff, and I kept telling him "go to hell" and frequently ended up with war happiness)

So, moral of the story, to get an even peace, even if the enemy AI is astronomically more powerful, just bankrupt yourself and be technologically backwards

 

[Snarkhunter]

The most amazing part of the whole story is an AI with multiple armies. Did the armies also have multiple units in them? The same units within an army, as well?

kk

 

[Marsden]

Actually, before conquests the AI had armies just like the player. I just killed an AI army in the last Gotm, 3 calvaries. Of course, armies before conquest with an oddity with no purpose, but there you go.

 

[Turner]

He's playing Vanilla, and in Vanilla/PTW the AI was capable of using Armies.

In Rise and Rule, the AI uses Armies, but that's because there are several small/great wonders that produce them.

 

[Spoonwood]

That army stuff seems weird. Does anyone think the programmers did that intentionally, or that AI armies got worse came as some side effect of an alteration to the code somewhere?

 

[Turner]

I think it was an unintended consequence. The AI in Conquests doesn't use armies because of the move bug. As we're all aware, Armies in Conquests get an extra movement point. Well, the AI checks the movement points of a unit before putting it into an Army. So if you have a Modern Armor (Shame on you for letting the AI get that advanced!) Army, it'll have 4 MP. There are no 4 MP units out there, so the AI won't add any units into the army, making it a weak one at best. Which is why on occasion when you do see an AI army it has something like a Pikeman with two Knights in it.

 

[capnvonbaron]

The most amazing part of the whole story is an AI with multiple armies. Did the armies also have multiple units in them? The same units within an army, as well?

kk

As stated, she had both a cavalry and a musketeer army, however I didn't check to see if there were other units mixed in. In all probability there were, but I've noticed that by the IA the AI tends to make more homogeneous armies, having more units of the same type to spare. Not that I haven't seen a knight-knight-swordsman army still lurking around then

Also adding to what the other guys are saying, the AI is dumb about putting regulars and veteren units into its armies. I personally only use elites unless I get modern armor and need to do some conquering before the AI gets them too. A 20hp army can usually go a lot further than a 16hp one, or at very least can do the same amount with a higher margin of safety of surviving. I've seen 10 hp armies fronted by the AI that were obviously two regs and one vet. Although I suppose it could've been two vets and a conscript

I also love when the AI fronts a cavalry army and I have a spare tank cruising around. Bye-bye, AI offense!

 

[Snarkhunter]

I personally only use elites unless I get modern armor and need to do some conquering before the AI gets them too.

I never use elites, unless they are elite*, or very rarely, if they are obsolete. I'd rather keep the MGL chance alive for those units than bury it in an army where it can't be used.

I might consider giving up elites if a) I had leaders running out of my ears, & b) I really thought I might need a 20 hp army.

On a related note, I don' think I've ever gotten more than 2 vets promoted to elites within an army. Eg, I never get more than an 18 hp army starting with vets. Does anyone know if there is a limit associated with this, or some level of code knocking the chances down within armies? Just curious.

kk

 

[Turner]

My personal opinion is it's the way the units are loaded into the army. I've gotten one and two elites in an army, but never three. Usually by the time I have that last unit in action, I tend to lose it very quickly.

 

[capnvonbaron]

I never use elites, unless they are elite*, or very rarely, if they are obsolete. I'd rather keep the MGL chance alive for those units than bury it in an army where it can't be used.

I might consider giving up elites if a) I had leaders running out of my ears, & b) I really thought I might need a 20 hp army.

Meh, by later game I don't care about MGLs anymore. If I want more armies, I'll build the academy and make tham. I'll also tend to have lots of elites running around by then, and I use them wisely to stack the odds in their favor of producing MGLs. Not arguing, just detailing my typical policy. Keep in mind, I'm still playing vanilla, that may change things some.

As to the promotion-from-within, I can't say since I almost always load my armies with elites anyways

 

[TheOverseer714]

I will load elite tanks into armies, since elite tanks are a dime a dozen. I will also load *elite cavalry into cavalry armies, since they can't upgrade. Otherwise, armies get veterans.

 

[Marsden]

I had a couple 24 hp ancient cavalry armies. They were good to have around even into the modern age for exploring and pillaging.

 

[capnvonbaron]

I had a couple 24 hp ancient cavalry armies. They were good to have around even into the modern age for exploring and pillaging.

Hrm, is that unique to AC?

I've had cavalry armies around in the modern age, but once the AI gets modern armor, the cavs are no longer respected. Often one or two MArmors are all the AI needs to take it down

 

[Optional]

Hrm, is that unique to AC?

Ancient Cavalries are units that get produced by an AA wonder, the Statue of Zeus. They get an extra hitpoint, just like India's War Elephant does in Conquests. That explains the hp total. Marsden must have had 4 AC's in his armies, and every AC elite. Mum, I can do maths!!!

 

[Spoonwood]

Hrm, is that unique to AC?

The pillaging or the modern age part? Conquistador armies make for major pillagers, but not as much so in the modern era since you'll need protection then.

 

[tom123]

AI's use armies?
In my current game, I was busy eliminating the Iroquois from my massive continent. They had about 8 cities left, including the capital. There was a cluster of 4 by the capital and 3 more much further north. I wanted to see if I could get any of them in a peace treaty to end the war quicker. I saw a couple of units in a stack, so right-clicked them to contact Hiawatha. One of the was an Elite*. I never saw an army, before or after that point. I suppose they could have used the leader to rush a building, but with so few cities, and whilst they were at war, I doubt it.
Oh, and if your wondering, I got 5 cities with a peace treaty, and took out the rest the following turn, hehehe.

 

[Padma]

In C3C, the AI will use Armies, if it has them, e.g., in a scenario where they are pre-made.

Because of the bug Turner mentioned above, it will rarely fill them, and therefore cannot use them effectively. (OK, the AI can't use them 'effectively', in any case. )