Possible coup in Turkey

[Kyriakos]

so lemme get this straight

Wikileaks releases a bunch of Turkey files they call the "Erdoğan emails"

most of these emails, if not all, have nothing to do with Erdoğan

in fact, one of the files is a database of every female voter in 79 out of 81 provinces, with extra information for AKP voters like their citizenship ID and cell number

so the Turkish government promptly blocked Wikileaks

aaaaand is pilloried by the hacktivist community for censorship

it's like guys

guys

there are plenty of ways to talk about AKP censorship without doxing almost every adult woman in Turkey

I am pretty sure that this is in fact worse than most of the actual bad things that AKP has done

Are you drunk?

Cause 'i am pretty sure' it is in bad taste to even compare harm done by Wikileaks to harm done by Erdo and his system.

 

[Dachs]

Are you drunk?

Cause 'i am pretty sure' it is in bad taste to even compare harm done by Wikileaks to harm done by Erdo and his system.

No. "Most of" leaves out the actual purges and jailings. Obviously AKP is pretty bad, and I am just about as far from an Erdoğan supporter as it is possible to get.

But doxing millions of women is pretty freaking awful, and now Wikileaks is denying it, slandering the credibility of Turkish-language journalists and scholars who have pointed it out, and doubling down on the AKP censorship claims. Releasing those files served literally no positive purpose and can only help people who harass, stalk, assault, and commit identity theft. Why isn't it okay to criticize Wikileaks for that?

 

[Pundit]

No. "Most of" leaves out the actual purges and jailings. Obviously AKP is pretty bad, and I am just about as far from an Erdoğan supporter as it is possible to get.

But doxing millions of women is pretty freaking awful, and now Wikileaks is denying it, slandering the credibility of Turkish-language journalists and scholars who have pointed it out, and doubling down on the AKP censorship claims. Releasing those files served literally no positive purpose and can only help people who harass, stalk, assault, and commit identity theft. Why isn't it okay to criticize Wikileaks for that?

Because Julian Assange is some sort of poet Jesus? A thoroughly unlikable man, whose website has long since moved past its original goal.

Can anyone translate what the hell r16 is saying? I'm pretty sure he just accused me of being a spy?

 

[Tahuti]

in fact, one of the files is a database of every female voter in 79 out of 81 provinces, with extra information for AKP voters like their citizenship ID and cell number

That's more of a reason to not vote than anything else really.

Not that Wikileaks are saints, however, and I do consider for the possibility that the Turkish government leaked them to Wikileaks on purpose.

 

[Dachs]

That's more of a reason to not vote than anything else really.

Not that Wikileaks are saints, however, and I do consider for the possibility that the Turkish government leaked them to Wikileaks on purpose.

That doesn't even make sense. Why would AKP leak its own private data to Wikileaks, opening up its own voting base to attacks, simply to have a "reason" to shut Wikileaks down (a reason that only apparently matters to a very few people)? This is as bizarre as the claims that Erdoğan deliberately provoked the coup or let it happen on purpose just to start purges when he was planning purges anyway and hardly needed a justification and his life was in danger during the coup.

 

[chijohnaok]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turke ... SKCN1051B0

World | Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:09am EDT Related: WORLD, TURKEY

Turkey detains 42 journalists in crackdown as Europe sounds alarm

ISTANBUL | BY DAREN BUTLER AND SEDA SEZER

Turkey ordered the detention of 42 journalists on Monday, broadcaster NTV reported, under a crackdown following a failed coup that has targeted more than 60,000 people and drawn fire from the European Union.

The arrests or suspensions of soldiers, police, judges and civil servants in response to the July 15-16 putsch have raised concerns among rights groups and Western countries, who fear President Tayyip Erdogan is capitalizing on it to tighten his grip on power.

EU Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker questioned Ankara's long-standing aspiration to join the EU.

"I believe that Turkey, in its current state, is not in a position to become a member any time soon and not even over a longer period," Juncker said on French television France 2.

Juncker also said that if Turkey reintroduces the death penalty - something the government has said it must consider, responding to calls from supporters at public rallies for the coup leaders to be executed - it would stop the EU accession process immediately.

Turkey abolished capital punishment in 2004, allowing it to open EU accession talks the following year, but the negotiations have made scant progress since then. The country plays an pivotal role in the U.S.-led fight against Islamic State and in containing the flow of refugees fleeing the conflict in Syria.

Erdogan reiterated his government's stance on the possible restoration of capital punishment in an interview with German television station ARD broadcast on Monday.

"What do the (Turkish) people say today?" Erdogan asked in the interview. "They want the death penalty reintroduced. And we as the government must listen to what the people say. We can't say 'no, that doesn't interest us.'"

Responding to Juncker's comments, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu told Haberturk TV that Europe cannot threaten Turkey regarding the death penalty.

Erdogan has declared a state of emergency, which allows him to sign new laws without prior parliamentary approval and limit rights as he deems necessary. The government has said these steps are needed to root out supporters of the coup and will not infringe on the rights of ordinary Turks.

NTV reported that among the 42 journalists subject to arrest warrants was well-known commentator and former parliamentarian Nazli Ilicak.

Another page turned in Erdogan's plan for the future of Turkey.

 

[FriendlyFire]

so lemme get this straight
Wikileaks releases a bunch of Turkey files they call the "Erdoğan emails"
most of these emails, if not all, have nothing to do with Erdoğan

in fact, one of the files is a database of every female voter in 79 out of 81 provinces, with extra information for AKP voters like their citizenship ID and cell number

I think it will take some time for people to search though the 300,000 emails and find anything interesting. And with Turkey crack down on Journalists and opposition there wont be many researching through them.

 

[muhtesem insan]

No. "Most of" leaves out the actual purges and jailings. Obviously AKP is pretty bad, and I am just about as far from an Erdoğan supporter as it is possible to get.

But doxing millions of women is pretty freaking awful, and now Wikileaks is denying it, slandering the credibility of Turkish-language journalists and scholars who have pointed it out, and doubling down on the AKP censorship claims. Releasing those files served literally no positive purpose and can only help people who harass, stalk, assault, and commit identity theft. Why isn't it okay to criticize Wikileaks for that?

all turkish citizen info is already leaked a couple of months ago.

 

[r16]

Can anyone translate what the hell r16 is saying? I'm pretty sure he just accused me of being a spy?

well , you can certainly ask your friends in DFAT . If they can't figure it out , such an unlikely event , they can surely ask home country ; it's like totally known that the British Foreign Ministry claims a 70% rate ; like totally after copy pasting each sentence and breaking it down to sub-sentences and clauses and stuff .

his life was in danger during the coup.

uhhm , no .

 

[r16]

this is gettting ridiculous . There is this female professor , possibly as a "voice" of the Radical Left , appearing a lot during the early days of the Ergenekon Conspiracy . As she got more and more diverged from the "mainstream" she would be regularly sent out , just like in the sense that "ice" hockey players get to sit in a box for a time as a penalty . Left , of course , has rather ample reasons to be vary of any coup , hence she is invited to some TV debate . And as you would have expected , she goes on a rant about how good old Boris was on a tank . ı didn't see it myself on the night , the first part of Hobbit was on TV , and having missed the opening when all those dwarves fall in through the door , unfortunately am yet to see it in full . Oh , she goes on a rant and Boris thing is readily mentioned in "Democratic" TV channels , followed by this utterly ugly conspiracy methodology of "Who benefits?" from anything that happens which she dares to use in analysis of stuff . When any single person smells something fishy , he/she should be ready for the flood of invective . And this professor , having sent to the bench repeatedly over the years , having experienced it by herself , sitting personally in front of one of the masters of the art who happens to be a guy who not just 5 years ago would wax lyrical about the spiritual leader of the Congregation and yet singularly paints herself into a corner by refusing to use the term Martyr . Democratic channels will harp on it for years to come and good old Boris will be forgotten . They had the son-in-law of the PM on a car , all alone on the hood , arranging crowds . The anchor on a "Democratic" channel declared her ugly , which ı think means something related to her wrong ideas and not physical attributes .

although she is lucky , she might have noticed how the leader of the Main Opposition went to the palace of the PM because of the coup . Of the two policemen killed defending the hotel where the PM was missed by the Congregation , one was a relative . The "Democratic" channels pointedly refuse to use the phrase "tıpış tıpış" , which was a fixture in them after the leader of the Main Opposition had woved never to set foot in the place .

and more "proof" of American involvement , even if cut from the same cloth that pertains to the heroisms of goverment generals , who make pigs fly . The commander of the Incirlik base , who should have never become an officer in the first place (due an inability to prounounce R - you know wireless communications can be troublesome enough to understand on their own even when all the letters vocalised) but was passed all the medicals by Congregation doctors , yeah , that guy has repeatedly talked with the Americans and have offered a coup in Somalia as well .

also in the news , the New Turkey news , the false news . No planes or helicopters have been shot down in the coup . Despite all the assurances that a terrorist Cobra had been downed in Gölbaşı , the location of heaviest police casualties and the lot . And by a goverment F-16. And footage of wreckage of non descript mechanical gear . This being official in the days before , claims of an unofficially shot down USAF KC-135 long refuted . And after the day the Last Prime Minister told the TV audiences of how the weak minded officers had demanded written orders from him and how he thundered to them on the phone . This is how unreliable Phantom units are . Even to the extent of the hero of day one or two , the 3 star general who saved the country by ordering the bombing of 141 , the father whose son was killed by the serial killer now in custody as a coupist . The female version of that should be coupess ? And yes , we should now truly be a Middle Eastern country , didn't Saddam claim tens of Allied planes shot down on the first day Desert Storm ?

and we have a discussion of womens' rights ? Well , it turns Congregation hazing involved specialised stuff as well . Female cadet stands at attention , upper class boys come and kick her and take the rifle . As such she gets to shout -basically- "My weapon is my honour, I can't keep my rifle hence I am a wh_re!" , 25 times in each case . Stuff also includes keeping her grounded at stuff for guard duty she didn't pull , because the boys would always replace the schedule after she checked it and went out to pull guard duty . She had to work in the fields to pay the seperation fee . 'Cause , America doesn't want girls in the Turkish Military and stuff because American Press would have to talk of progress during the ugly reign of Kemalists .

all in part of the wider scheme of putting "proper" people in . Last night there was the regular run of TV debates , which ı checked during the breaks in the Phantom Menace . There is this dude Ahmet Hakan , showing the same exaltedness he had at the height of Ergenekon Conspiracy at the officers who claimed to be Patriots under attack by the Congregation . He seats 6 people , one had a medical emergency and he found a replacement at short notice . A Colonel who is ashamed to have been jailed only 8 months or so and they can't figure it why . He is a pharmacologist or whatever that's . All the others laugh at him , including the host , because say one of the guests is the SAT who landed on Kardak , one other can be the next chief of the so called intelligence that ryhmes with that US tech university , and the Colonel thinks he caught Congregation misusing lab equipment . Instead of passing Congregation members and failing the Kemalists in medicals , a 2-star ex Admiral was pointedly smiling at the Colonel before he said in his 29 years of service he was never involved in such medicals . Let me explain , he would be a point of pride , a soldier of the extinct Turkish Armed Forces , inventing drugs and stuff , a thorny issue for the propaganda of the New Turkey that always says nothing good could have happened in the Old . The arrests took before the Medicine or Chemistry Nobel awarded to a Turkish dude of course .

 

[Pundit]

ah , ended up so lonely so quick once again



you claim to bear the word of the Australian Secret Service

you claim the Congregation action has made it impossible for a later coup to succeed

you almost look like suggesting that people should surrender to A-K-P

you also look ready to amend the stark outlook by a this barely visible hint that "Kemalists" have the powerbase to stop an Iranian style transformation of the country , which then means working with people on the "outside" , disregarding whatever outside might mean in this particular context

you sugar it up with a couple of repeated references to Star Wars (2)

you certainly offer the American version of stuff ; which not so secretly aids and abets the Goverment's narrative of the events (3)

you claim the spiritual leader was not informed of the operational side of the thing ; he is a Moderate and stuff , useful to the West to keep the PM under check and no accidents should happen to him (4)

you attempt to completely whitewash stuff with an Humeyni-style return being possible only if one wasn't in the country in the first place , though the PM's arrival in Istanbul can conceivably be argued about , maybe

you keep kicking the Kemalists as if you are with the Congregation , what Saddam Hussein ? What support for dictatorship ? Every single one of them knows no coup succeeds without US approval , which makes it so possible that

you are here to troll me , of all people or

you are blissfully unaware of the standarts that apply to certain people , say people can not be taken to task and stuff if they don't know what they are talking about . This DFAT of yours can possibly find Turkey on a map but they seem to lack comprehension on the notion that the number of people in Australia that know/knew/has known the existance of certain people would be less than 20 . Allow me a tidbit on the Congregation way of doing things . Their schools have been the point of much discussion and some mirth ; if they had brought in that amount of effort , they might have actually succeeded . Nobody has ever believed that they could start schools in exactly 141 countries without American support and CIA participation /observation and their wail for a decade was "Use us!" , such a patriotic thing that would extend Turkish power to a global scale , apart from this little side effect of them infiltrating . And because they themselves didn't know people , the wail of "Use us!" would be on TV , right next to Turkish Prime Ministers visiting some "Turkish" school in some forsaken corner of the world .




(1)And would brook not a single opposition when some Kemalist commands them in battle against the forthcoming Umeyyad Empire .


(2)Rather dumb of Australian secret service to talk of Admiral "It's a trap!" Ackbar . ı am a SW fan since the times before many members of CFC were even born . On the other hand ı have always been fond of Yavuz class frigates based on the world renowned MEKO concept . Which calls for rapid modification of the ships with easy removal of palletized equipment . So we are going to see wheels attached to ships of 3000 tons and they will drive all the way to Ankara . As per Star Wars canon ! Just in the sense that Mon Calamari ships are so aquatic in space where they do not need the sleek profile at all . And all bound to happen because Admiral Kösele will not be made the commander of the entire naval service with full confidence of the Goverment , as suggested by Saturday's newspaper

(3) Ankara claims we are on the brink of becoming a superpower and America wants to stop this by all means possible . Including the coup by the Congregation , terrorists , maniacs , even Islamist extremists now , with reports of prayers written by the spiritual leader himself discovered on captured coup members . Ankara claims Washington denies all and protects the godless anarchist . Washington on the hand asks for formalities and paperwork to hand over the spiritual leader which then becomes proof of Washington's complicity . All the previous lack of activity easily covered with that . My older brother worked at the Municipality , as the head of the Medical Department , and quite the guy to stick to the smallprint of the law . He slept rather better after he quit and went to factories as a practitioner . We were talking of the events and ı started on how the #1 godless traitor to the country could still take a salary from this country as a retired preacher . Imagine this , there is a coup , hundreds have died , he is the face of the devil and the State puts his monthly salary of 400 odd US dollars to the bank , next day it is withdrawn and only after that day the account is frozen . He has still been withdrawing that money in the 3 years , during the time everything has been said to him . ı scoff and my brother reminds me that they would need a court order to freeze it . ı don't doubt it , only amazed that no one had noticed it until the moment they discovered that America could notice it to hit back , with regards to supporting terrorists ... America will claim this is an A-K-P conspiracy , A-K-P will call it a lie and we can really see it that ...

next item ...

(4) You ignore the basic security threat to him was an heliborne insertion type attack on his compound during the days he was raping the country with full cooperation of anyone that comes and not comes to mind . You know , for an abduction for interrogation , which would certainly involve combat against the "SWAT team closeby / kept on 5 minutes readiness" , chase across the US and an ocean or perhaps the other ocean and a possibility of open hostilies to involve the entire capabilities of US Military ; the Americans can never stop talking of how they will nuke us . Now that everybody knows "Muslims' penchant for backstabbing" , the risk is now actual . That with the right amount of payment America might loose a close friend . This they don't want to happen , now that coup has unintentionally earthed unknown sleeper cells . Imagine the untold damage such a few guys could have done . The Congregation general to take over the special forces HQ was killed at the gate , his bodyguards rushed him to hospital , isolated before the operation , they called colleagues on the phone , learned of the coup and were inserted back to the HQ posing as members of the Congregation where they might have executed twenty , thirty people , one by one and silently and they might have decided the fate of the coup . Congregation were meant to take out people , not to be taken out themselves and morale of their remnants can be cheaply kept high by the safety of the "peaceful" cleric . Cheap is the operative word , with Congregation being cheap themselves ; they have been distributing 1 US Dollar bills as amulets . Let's just forget that his "hicret" to the US was in 1999 , right after the seperatist leader got caught ; which is bound to be much referenced in the days to come .

Seriously, can someone please translate this? I have tried, and I just cannot get my head around it. It seems like I'm being accused of being some sort of US plant as part of a plot to turn Erdogan into a dictator, or something.

 

[Tahuti]

This is as bizarre as the claims that Erdoğan deliberately provoked the coup or let it happen on purpose just to start purges when he was planning purges anyway and hardly needed a justification and his life was in danger during the coup.

Erdogan did not need a domestic justification, that much is true. The coup was to a large extent a foreign policy event: A deadly Kabuki theatre act to entertain...eh make the foreign powers forgive Erdogan's crackdown.

And dude, a Turkish politician's life is in danger nearly every second.

 

[r16]

am here since 2008 , most people understand ı seriously play Civ III and my ranting only began after ı was driven out by media trolls of the New Turkey from all the sites my ranting would fit . Up to 2012 or 13 . Currently even Lockheed Martin advises toleration on me , especially in sites run by people who acts as their advertisers . So am not accusing not a single person of being anything , have no right or capability to do so . The last time this happened , the guy was a voluble supporters of the Kurdish aspirations . Never had a need to remind when his heroic warriors abandoned Sinjar to ISIL and ran despite all that available USAF firepower ; he is just a guy who really doesn't need to be a spy . Even some US Army vet who most likely would command troops in combat against the former Turkish Army has given up challenging me , not because ı would know where he lives , but the flow of history and stuff kinda proves that ı have this idiotic right to fear the Civil War designed to engulf my country . People would even have the notion that even the actual CIA has left after a short presence to see what the fuss was all about . As said people can understand it well enough , what will be the point of r16 called me this and called me that ? And just for your benefit , ı have been called "James Joyce" twice in this forum , in case this is a web-trick as well .

 

[Pundit]

Erdogan did not need a domestic justification, that much is true. The coup was to a large extent a foreign policy event: A deadly Kabuki theatre act to entertain...eh make the foreign powers forgive Erdogan's crackdown.

And dude, a Turkish politician's life is in danger nearly every second.

I doubt Erdogan particularly gives a damn about foreign policy considerations as compared to crushing dissent in Turkey.

 

[Tahuti]

I doubt Erdogan particularly gives a damn about foreign policy considerations as compared to crushing dissent in Turkey.

Well, it seemed he was trying make things even with Russia by accusing the pilot behind the Russian plane takedown of participation in the coup. Will it help right now? Not much.

Erdogan relies on good foreign relations to continue build material wealth to soothe potential pockets of dissent. The crackdown in the aftermath of the coup was intended for those who would not be swayed by that.

 

[Pundit]

Well, it seemed he was trying make things even with Russia by accusing the pilot behind the Russian plane takedown of participation in the coup. Will it help right now? Not much.

Erdogan relies on good foreign relations to continue build material wealth to soothe potential pockets of dissent. The crackdown in the aftermath of the coup was intended for those who would not be swayed by that.

Foreign relations with the EU and Russia are in the toilet. The latter is vaguely amusing, given Erdogan's man-crush on Putin. Erdogan has also throughly angered Israel for domestic political reasons. He's only on good terms with the US. Admittedly, this is the only country Turkey really needs to keep happy, but Erdogan's claims about Gulen being behind the coup attempt and his unguarded comments about the US sheltering a "terrorist" don't really help him out there either.

I think Erdogan is far more interested in domestic control than foreign relations. If he ever achieves his goal of a dictatorship, which he is inching towards, that may change.

 

[Tahuti]

I think Erdogan is far more interested in domestic control than foreign relations. If he ever achieves his goal of a dictatorship, which he is inching towards, that may change.

This is a bit blurry: Foreign relations and domestic control are often overlapping and giving the transnational nature of corporations and the role they play in economy, religion, ethnicity and etc.

Ultimately, states and corporations are fiction. These do not really exist, though these are maintained by people who are. There are Americans with interest in Erdogan's continued leadership just as much as there Turks to whom the same applies.

 

[Dachs]

Erdogan did not need a domestic justification, that much is true. The coup was to a large extent a foreign policy event: A deadly Kabuki theatre act to entertain...eh make the foreign powers forgive Erdogan's crackdown.

And dude, a Turkish politician's life is in danger nearly every second.

That'd be a great idea if any of the foreign powers actually cared, and if Erdoğan gave a damn what they thought. I'm completely unconvinced that Erdoğan orchestrated/provoked a fake/real coup merely as cover for something for which he didn't need any cover. I mean, he's already been doing "Ergenekon" purges for years with paper-thin "evidence" and nobody cared.

And you can't seriously be saying that Erdoğan's life was not in any more danger than usual when he barely made it out of his hotel in front of a military raid and had to bluff an aircraft out of shooting his plane down. Any way you slice it, a coup is dangerous as all hell for everybody involved, especially in Turkey. It just isn't a plausible explanation.

 

[Pundit]

That'd be a great idea if any of the foreign powers actually cared, and if Erdoğan gave a damn what they thought. I'm completely unconvinced that Erdoğan orchestrated/provoked a fake/real coup merely as cover for something for which he didn't need any cover. I mean, he's already been doing "Ergenekon" purges for years with paper-thin "evidence" and nobody cared.

And you can't seriously be saying that Erdoğan's life was not in any more danger than usual when he barely made it out of his hotel in front of a military raid and had to bluff an aircraft out of shooting his plane down. Any way you slice it, a coup is dangerous as all hell for everybody involved, especially in Turkey. It just isn't a plausible explanation.

Considering Erdogan was asking neighbouring countries for asylum and the Prime Minister took over in his absence, you're absolutely correct. Erdogan is legitimately lucky to be alive right now, and I strongly suspect part of the viciousness of these reprisals is due to the fact that his life was directly threatened like never before. People, even heads-of-state, tend not to react well to people actively trying to kill them.

 

[REDY]

That'd be a great idea if any of the foreign powers actually cared, and if Erdoğan gave a damn what they thought. I'm completely unconvinced that Erdoğan orchestrated/provoked a fake/real coup merely as cover for something for which he didn't need any cover. I mean, he's already been doing "Ergenekon" purges for years with paper-thin "evidence" and nobody cared.

And you can't seriously be saying that Erdoğan's life was not in any more danger than usual when he barely made it out of his hotel in front of a military raid and had to bluff an aircraft out of shooting his plane down. Any way you slice it, a coup is dangerous as all hell for everybody involved, especially in Turkey. It just isn't a plausible explanation.

I agree that Erdogan had power but that does not mean that he hadnt got more power. There were still kemalists and liberals in Turkey. Orchestrated coup made them weaker.

It seems that Russia bought Erdogan by giving him know how.