Possible New Techs

[orlanth]

(these could also be named Tradesmen->Construction->Engineering->Highways):


Apprentice Tradesmen
can Build Roads
can construct Monument
|
V
Journeyman Tradesmen (with Cooperation)
can construct Barricade
can Build Cottage
can Build Mine
allows Bridge Building
|
V
Master Tradesmen (with Combustion)
can Build Fort
can construct Construction Yard
can construct Walls (with Self Defense)
can construct Geothermal Cavern Complex
|
V
Highways
as current. maybe rename Highway Worker to Road Crew

 

[orlanth]

Spreads out the vehicles a bit.. you can build Jeeps at Cracking but have unreliable fuel supplies before getting Train Gas Trucks at Refining.


Machinery
can Build Junkyard
can train Catapult
|
V
Combustion (with High School Science)
reveals Ruined Depot
can train Chopper
enables City Raider
units can use Highways (before Combustion, would give same benefits as Roads)
|
V
Cracking
can build Well
can train Flamethrower
can train Jeep (with Small Arms)
|
V
Refining
can train Gas Truck
can train Humvee (with Armor)
enables Mobility


Machinery also leads to:
Salvaging (with Apprentice Tradesmen)
reveals Ruined Silo
can Build Salvage Center
can construct Carhenge
|
V
Engines (with Combustion)
can train Ute
can construct Garage
enables Offroad
enables Camoflage
|
V
Armor
as current

 

[orlanth]

High School Science
centers World Map
reveals Oil
|
V
Homebrew Electronics -----> leads to Radio, as current
reveals Ruined Airbase
enables Sentry, Flanking, Ambush
allows Map Trading
|
V
Homebrew Computers
first to discover receives a Free Technology
enables Technology Trading
enables Leadership
|
V
Rocketry (with Engines)
as current
|
V
Flight (with Refining)
can Rebuild Airbase
reveals World Map



High School Science also leads to:

First Aid
+5% to unit heal rate inside civ borders
enables Medic 1
enables Radiation Immune
|
V
Field Medicine
+1 in all cities
enables March
can bulld Field Hospital (+1 in city, heals units in city +50%, can remove negative Plague promotion caught from mutant attacks)

 

[Deon]

I'd like Eras to be implemented.

Era of survival.
Humanity tries to adapt to the new world.
Basic technologies and early warfare.
The main problems are numerous mutated animals.

Era of renascence.
More advanced warfare and social techs.
The main threat is barbarian nation and other civs.

Era of transcendence.
Heavy warfare and some fancy sci-fi techs.
Power armor, energy weapons, viral weapons, implants.
This period may be short, the main part of the mod is about the post-apocalyptic survival.


A suggestion about current "agriculture" and early techs.
Make more techs and separate existent units/buildings/features between them.

Agriculture
Farms and granaries.

Hunting.
Camps and scouts.

Animal taming.
Requires hunting or agriculture.
Pastures and hunters (a scout with a dog - with hunting, +nice% vs. animals).

Warfare
Barricades.
Survivor unit.
Leads to various advanced military techs.

Logistics
Roads and settlers.

Organized labor.
Requires logistics
Junktown/mine.

Machinery.
Workshop building (+ production).
Crossbowman with Warfare tech.
Catapult.

Riding.
Requires animal taming or warfare
Horseman with horse.

Spoiler :

Riding could give bikers with Combustion tech (you can skip animal taming for it or you may have no horse).
At first the horseman would be better (since he requires a resource) because he gains defensive bonuses and biker doesn't, but the biker will get better upgrades with rifles etc.
There should be a difference between jeeps and bikers to make them popular.
I.e. give the bikers -1 ability while they are in city (you may limit it to maximum -3), it will represent biker shows.
Or you could just make a "biker show" building (+ ) which requires Combustion and Riding.

These are my first thoughts on early techs.

Orlanth's ideas are nice too.
Everything is good except "combustion reveals ruined depot" for me.
I don't think that a knowledge of combustion will actually "reveal" landmarks. I'd like it to stay at "salvaging".

 

[Jabie]

Animal taming.
Requires hunting or agriculture.
Pastures and hunters (a scout with a dog - with hunting, +nice% vs. animals).

Rise of Mankind has a War dog unit which might be usable for this. Maybe a survivor unit that is immune to First Strikes.

Settlers and Workers ought to have some defensive Strength (say 3) but not be able to attack - they're survivors too after all.

A few naval techs might be nice one to build work boats nd allow river trade. One for small units - jetskis and speedboats, the former is faster and good for scouting, the latter slower but with a cargo capacity. One to reveal and rebuild ports (spawns submarines, destroyers and maybe battleships) and one to build naval units of your own (say transports and destroyers) Sea Serpents and Giant Octopi can live in the oceans and, I dunno, Killer Jellyfish, can live in the seas.

Flight ought to begin with balloons, biplanes and zeppelins. "Airstrip One" ought to be a Wonder that allows you to airlift one unit from that city to another once per turn. (Airstrip One is the name of the UK in 1984, so it fits a post-apocalypse/dystopia scenario quite well)

 

[arkham4269]

I'd like Eras to be implemented.[

I like these ideas!

One thing I would like to point out is depending on how ruinously bad the event that got the planet to where it's at, technology once discovered is hard to get rid of. I mean with more an more media being more 'permanent' it's hard to lose a lot of stuff. Sure the people who know it may have all died, but it is a hell of a lot easier to reconstruct something from a book when you know it's possible.

Not sure how scenarios work with mods, but I'm thinking that there could be different layers to this mod depending on the initial disaster.

The 'Lucifer's Hammer' scenario: Celestial event, rapid destruction, climate change. Perhaps initial meteorite strikes are misinterpreted as a first strike (maybe Earth was in state of military tension like during the Reagan years?) so nukes are also exchanged adding to the misery. Thus we have little in the way of people and tech left. This scenario would definitely have you starting with practically nothing.

The 'Alpha Centauri' Scenario: For all of us AC fans; the Earth is at the edge of all-out war and the planet isn't doing to good environmentally either. The UNS Unity has launched and then the fit hits the shan. However, the factions that would later arise on the Planet have their enclaves and from them they go out to rediscover after the War. This scenario would have your factions starting out with more stuff (in the sense each faction has one 'good' city with stuff horded depending on the faction) and then they go out from there.

The 'War of the Worlds' Scenario: Those damn aliens! First they come down, wreck our planet (perhaps drop a 'dinosaur killer' like in the book "Footfall") and then dropped dead after succumbing to our diseases! This scenario would account for all the wreckage, radiation and loss of life, but account for the fact there are still lots of people scattered around who all have to come together. Plus, added to this could be the remains of aliens tech that could help and maybe left over 'beserkers' could be nasty barbarians. (Like in "Fall Further" you could have alien machines be like lairs and the pay off is great but you could awaken a alien death machine)

All of these scenarios would only require minor tweaking of the main mod, but would change the flavor of how the survivors start out and what they are up against.

 

[arkham4269]

Rise of Mankind has a War dog unit which might be usable for this. Maybe a survivor unit that is immune to First Strikes.

RoM also has the 'river port' building that I think would be the first type of harbor that you'd probably have since it'd be awhile before you'd need any sort of deep water harbor.

Settlers and Workers ought to have some defensive Strength (say 3) but not be able to attack - they're survivors too after all.

I like how the Fall Further mod has workers that gain experience and can defend themselves a bit.

Flight ought to begin with balloons, biplanes and zeppelins. "Airstrip One" ought to be a Wonder that allows you to airlift one unit from that city to another once per turn. (Airstrip One is the name of the UK in 1984, so it fits a post-apocalypse/dystopia scenario quite well)

As I've pushed for many times, just because oil is great, it's also hard to get. However, a lot can be done with steam. I mean you can make steam cars, steam haulers, and all that steampunk stuff. Just because a Civ doesn't have oil (especially early on) shouldn't mean it's screwed totally. I think that in a post-apocalyptic world, you'd get a of the "Roads Less Taken" when it comes to jury-rigging things back together.

 

[Deon]

I like these ideas!

One thing I would like to point out is depending on how ruinously bad the event that got the planet to where it's at, technology once discovered is hard to get rid of. I mean with more an more media being more 'permanent' it's hard to lose a lot of stuff. Sure the people who know it may have all died, but it is a hell of a lot easier to reconstruct something from a book when you know it's possible.

Not sure how scenarios work with mods, but I'm thinking that there could be different layers to this mod depending on the initial disaster.

The 'Lucifer's Hammer' scenario: Celestial event, rapid destruction, climate change. Perhaps initial meteorite strikes are misinterpreted as a first strike (maybe Earth was in state of military tension like during the Reagan years?) so nukes are also exchanged adding to the misery. Thus we have little in the way of people and tech left. This scenario would definitely have you starting with practically nothing.

The 'Alpha Centauri' Scenario: For all of us AC fans; the Earth is at the edge of all-out war and the planet isn't doing to good environmentally either. The UNS Unity has launched and then the fit hits the shan. However, the factions that would later arise on the Planet have their enclaves and from them they go out to rediscover after the War. This scenario would have your factions starting out with more stuff (in the sense each faction has one 'good' city with stuff horded depending on the faction) and then they go out from there.

The 'War of the Worlds' Scenario: Those damn aliens! First they come down, wreck our planet (perhaps drop a 'dinosaur killer' like in the book "Footfall") and then dropped dead after succumbing to our diseases! This scenario would account for all the wreckage, radiation and loss of life, but account for the fact there are still lots of people scattered around who all have to come together. Plus, added to this could be the remains of aliens tech that could help and maybe left over 'beserkers' could be nasty barbarians. (Like in "Fall Further" you could have alien machines be like lairs and the pay off is great but you could awaken a alien death machine)

All of these scenarios would only require minor tweaking of the main mod, but would change the flavor of how the survivors start out and what they are up against.

Actually it requries no tweaking if the eras were implemented. You just start in different eras and have different civs.

An alien civ could be a nice option to add to the main havoc and to make scenarios.

Also I think that there should be an Electricity tech and some factories to produce vehicles/craft which require energy.
There could be different types of energy source - one is oil after combustion (generators rule), another would be some natural way to get energy like windplants/hydroplants and solar plants later. And there should be some end-game nuclear- and fusion plants.

 

[Deon]

Caravans
Requires the road building technology whatever will it be.
Plus requires animal domestication tech OR the first tech that allows the construction of vehicles.
Allows the construction of Trading company building (+25% , Builds +25% Faster with Gold)
Allows the construction of the Crimson Caravan wonder.

Crimson caravan.
Requires 3 Trading company buildings to be built.
+1 protection
+1 trade route in this city.
+1 trade route in each city.
+1 free specialist (great merchant)
+2 (Great Merchant)
Builds +50% Faster with Gold



Slavery
Enables Slavery civic.
Allows the construction of Slave Pen.

Slave pen
+1 +1 +20%
3 required to build the Slavers' Guild wonder
Allows to train Slaver Caravan

Slaver Caravan
Requires Caravans and Slavery.
Cost in hammers is like the warrior's, can be consumed in another city to produce 50% of it's cost in . Slavers' Guild lowers the production value thus increasing the % of output.



Totalitarism
Enables the Police State civic.
Allows the construction of C.L.C.
Allows the construction of the C.A.C.L.C. wonder.

C.L.C. (Corrective Labor Camp)
-15% War weariness
-1
+15% in this city
+2

 

[Deon]

OK, here I go again.
I spent some time today and yesterday thinking about the tech tree, and I came up with this tree. This is basically a compilation of original one plus orlanth's ideas plus my ideas.

Firstly, I don't think that there should be "oral history" or "ceremonies", sorry, but we're speaking of modern people after a great cataclysm, not of savages who just left their caves. A majority of survivors should remember old songs, lyrics and know how to repair a car or to clean a pistol.
The main goal of the post-apocalyptic research should be 1) a desire to obtain resources as fast as possible to start living with the technology again, as we're used to; 2) to gain simplier ways of making good ol'things; 3) to learn how to be effective in groups.

The first two goals are achieved easier than from a scratch because of all that junk and old tech around, also I'm quite sure people should learn chemistry as far as possible to provide medicines and materials for fuel/weapons; the third goal is quite natural and should go not much better (but faster) than in ancient world - while people know words "democracy" and "theocracy" they are just workers/musicians/engineers and are in masse far from political system which controlled their lives before, thus they should learn again via blood and trials how to deal with crowds.
And Salvaging (in my opinion) should be a "universal" tech which won't require something very special and shouldn't be essential but should bear nice bonuses which would help to research other areas.
Here's the tech tree:
If 2 blue arrows lead to 1 tech: "or"; if 2 red arrows lead to 1 tech: "both are required".

Spoiler :

It's not full and some parts like salvaging are not here while I still don't remove them from the full list, it's just the main scheme.

Also I have a bit revised vision of civics: the nations should start with "tribalism" government civic since they are groups of survivors here and there, and "despotism" should be granted by Totalitarism while "feudalism" civic should be granted by diplomacy in this scheme (people should learn how to interact and conduct meetings with each other to make an effective feudalistic government to be viable as one nation).
Provided by the techs (not all are here) government civics.

Spoiler :

Police state and Cosa Nostra*1 go to social control, I have other ideas too and I can share them here or in a modmod just for you to make it more visual; since you said you don't have enough time now to make everything it would be helpful too due to the copy-pasting ability which makes future things easier: if you'll like something you shouldn't make it from scratch, just copy something from the existing strings.

*1Mafia and Cosa Nostra can be renamed to "Secret Societies" for more extensive use. This will require a "social" civics line.

I'd like to have Cultism too, we can use a shrouded model and call it "cultist", he'll spread vision, have 'medic I' and should be a descent combat unit, so you won't rush to arms as fast as possible but some ideological civs could try to get cultists first, they'll be a bit weaker but have more use.

If you like it I will try to make a modmod with the tweaked techtree. Also I have other techs which grant different already discussed and suggested buildings like casinos and jails/labor camps etc. which fit the theme.
Just tell me.

 

[davidlallen]

This looks pretty interesting! I have a number of local changes for version 9; but none of them affect the techtree. So please go ahead and try out your proposed techtree. I think the biggest change should be in the technology xml, which will be totally rewritten; you will need to make some minor changes in the unitinfos, promotioninfos, buildinginfos and buildinfos xml; and a new text file. Any other files which you think might be changed?

 

[Deon]

I made a few mods some time earlier (in a year or two) so I may dig up all my xml documentation and do it without a side help.

I just wanted to ask your permission, because when you release a mod for publicity you definitely know that they can try to edit/change something there but still it's a good form to ask an author before going into the depths of his work.

Which name do you like more for a social control civic: mafia/cosa nostra/secret societies?

 

[Deon]

Today I'll be busy until the 2nd part of the day (+3 GMT) and I want to post you my intermediate result. It's currently WIP and I have some buildings like casinos and discussed wonders to be added.

Spoiler :

When I'll finish I'll release it, maybe you'll like something from here.
I've made some buttons but didn't bother with the pedia yet.
Any suggestions are highly wanted.
This technology map is a techtree I've made this night and I improved it a bit already, casinos go to gambling, banking lead to economics and "vault building" techs.
Enviromentalism civic and "protection from radiation" promo go to enviromental protection.

Costs are rearranged to fit the quick game speed, they evenly increase while the tree progresses. However I tested their costs on the quick speed so they'll need to be tweaked on marathon when I have a time.
Also when more wonders/units will come in the game the costs should increase for corresponding techs.

For now I listen to your ideas about where to put the radio here.
Computers/propulsion/flight should go in enother era by this design.

Also there's a "depot" icon at cracking - it's just an unchanged icon for a new "petrol pipeline" building:

Spoiler :

It's visible on another bank of the river.
For now it just gives +1 to the city while the idea is to be a resupply fuel depot.
until you can get refining and oil you should be able to build this petrol station (Sevo's gas pipeline is used) and the vehicles in cities with this petrol stations should be auto-refuelled. They would be after refuelled in any city if it has an access to oil (after refinery). To make this more essential I plan to make refining tech to be more expensive.

I hope this can help somewhay.

 

[davidlallen]

I have not been ignoring your proposed new techtree, although it must seem that way. I wanted to get version 9 released, which I have just done. Next thing up is to review your proposal for the techtree.

 

[El_Duderino]

out of curiosity are you planning on adding any techs that allow the construcion of boats? i tried your game and went into the map editor and saw there were two islands both of which had missile silos, weapon depots ect. but no way of actually getting to them, i understand that naval warfare isnt the point of this mod but perhaps a tech that allows small transport craft for moving settlers or dropping infantry into enemy territory for some good ol' guerilla warfare, and some motor boat with a machinegun to defend against those raids and to pillage the enemys fishing boats

 

[Zeikko]

I just had this idea about dividing agriculture in 2 or 3 different techs. To force you make more choices when considering which techs you need first to start tile improving.
Flavourwise humanity knows already what agriculture is so the new techs could be water purification/processing, plant purification/processing, meat purification/processing. Or if you want to go with two techs they could be water purification/processing and food purification/processing.
Water tech would of course make you able to use water tiles and build work boats.
Food or meat and plant techs are quite clear too. Give acces to plant and animal resources. Then you could also implement a Food processing/purification facility. I'll leave the stats of the building up to you. Maybe something like granary or maybe + from food resource tiles.

 

[jefmart1]

I would break it up into Eras, with a theme as mentioned earlier. I would also limit settling until later in the game.

Age of Survival - small groups just trying to survive
Age of Rebirth - Small communities are starting to form
Age of Technology - City-States are forming
Steel Age - Nations are starting to emerge
The Future

I have a spreadsheet with a proposed tech tree but it keeps saying invalid file type when I try to upload it...

All techs with line must be completed to get to next tech , ie all AND no OR prereq. Sorry about the lines being sloppy.

The civics would have to be redone to reflect the growth of society and civilization...

 

[davidlallen]

I have a spreadsheet with a proposed tech tree but it keeps saying invalid file type when I try to upload it...

I bet if you zip it, you could upload a zipfile. If not, PM me and I will (re)send you my email address. I can upload it onto my own web site for others to see.

 

[jefmart1]

Here is the spreadsheet zipped:

View attachment Tech Tree.zip

The idea behind it is rediscovery of old tech and then growth unfettered by restrictions. Plus, the developement of a new society, I do have techs for religions at the bottom. Religion has historically been a key force in the growth of civilizations and warfare as opposed to the current visions.

I envision a New Catholic Church, perhaps a Gaian church, Satanists, End Times Cults, etc.

 

[Refar]

I do not necesserily agree with all and everything (i.e. the order), but the tree is a good effort - a good collection of potentially useable Post Apo themed Tech-Names.

Also the re-introduction of eras is something i was thinking about as well (If nothing else, so for the technical reason - it makes updates of City art possible). However i think 6 ages are too many for a mod with a short time frame as Fury Road.

I was thinking Survival/Retoration/Future

I would for now keep out Religions. While you are most probably right, about some cults spreading among the survivors, the Vision idea is interesting enought. We can't have both visions and religions...