Post a (tough) Deity map for me to play

[AcaMetis]

The people ask for hard maps, and whenever I don't make miscalculations...

Speaking of which, here's one that...shouldn't be a cakewalk. The start for Julius Caesar:

Spoiler :

Map settings:

Spoiler :

Fractal, Rocky Climate, NHNE, all else default.

Iso?

Spoiler :

Semi-iso, by my definition of the term. Others might classify it as non-iso? Not sure. You're not alone, is the point

Why it's worth playing? This one...well, it should have an interesting early game in any case. Beyond that...it depends.

Spoiler :

If there was a way to make the AI less when it comes to placing their cities...

 

[gaash2]

@codehappy : Thanks for the praise! Offbeat map scripts sound like a good idea to mix it up a bit once in a while. Will definitely try the Fantasy Realm thing soon!

Also thanks for the new maps. Started playing Pacal and ouch . Not so nice.

@Undefeatable : The thing about maximizing scores is, that it would require (more) tremendous time and effort. I tend to invest that in the early game a bit more and then speed up once I feel the game is going well. Just as a compromise. I think many people would consider it fairly boring to watch micromanagement for several more hours when I could win the game in minutes or with much quicker turns. It's something that I tend to do offline a bit more though, can certainly be fun when playing yourself.

Is Pacal going to be on video? And def agree please do not play slower haha!

 

[Quoth the Raven]

If you are looking for more of a challenge on any map, turn off technology trading and do not use slavery.

 

[Lain]

Yes, Pacal on video is next.

 

[vucode]

Spoiler :

I figured out a way to play that Pacal map. I had the correct idea first time, to go worker, bronze working, chop settler, but I had moved one tile NE, so the fish spot would not be connected. I didn't move this time and did it like this:



Now what to do from here? Well, I think the best idea is to settle that flood plain spot, make a bunch of cottages, and tech quickly to construction. Once at construction, unique 3 happiness colosseum will let you whip the cities to death and destroy kublai khan.

 

[AcaMetis]

After many, oh so many, like a seriously ungodly amount of reloads, I have obtained a new map. The start for Willem van Orange:

Spoiler :

Map details:

Spoiler :

Fractal, Tropical Climate, High Sealevel, NHNE, all else default

Isolated?

Spoiler :

Semi-Isolated

Why it's worth playing? Let's just say that this map should be a decent test of one's diplo skills.

 

[Pedro78]

@Lain watching your videos has, once again, brought me back to civ. The work and commitment you put into them are simply amazing

That Willem map
I'm gonna need something softer than that in order to shake off the rust... But totally recommended for Lain, if you feel like suffering.

On a sidenote, @AcaMetis I'm not sure what you mean exactly by "Semi-Isolated", but the widely accepted understanding of this term is "alone on a continent with a single AI until Optics" (which is not the case with the JC and Willy maps)

 

[AcaMetis]

Yeah, that's an issue with old personal definitions not matching established definitions. In case it wasn't clear from my post count I'm still new here . In any case, my definition for "semi-isolated" is "a map where you cannot meet all rival AIs without Astronomy". As for "isolated", my definition is "a map where you cannot make contact with any other civilization without Astronomy". Yes, I draw the line at Astronomy and not at Optics. My reasoning is that if a 5xp boat (Flanking I -> Sentry) can allow you to make early contact the map isn't necessarily an isolation map, there's a way to make contact with nothing more than Sailing. Admittedly killing 5xp worth of barbs is not reliable, nor is getting a one tile wide ocean dividing your landmass reliable, but my definitions tend to favor theory over practice.

 

[krikav]

AcaMetis, I thought you where a regular here and only lost your old account or something, I thought this because of all your thoughtful posts.
But welcome to the forums!
It's very good with fresh views that can help nuance old truths and conventions, and the thoughts you have about optics etc are valuable.

Often it's helpful to not use lingo that is generally accepted and understod to describe different things.
The situation that is special, that one is trying to describe with the term "Semi-Isolation" (as far as I see it!) is that you have one AI that only sees YOU and no other AI.
This leads you to being the only target for wars, and generally it's also very problematic to get trades going because the AI want to keep it's monopoly on most techs.

There are many varitations and special cases, but thats the general thing we are trying to describe.
Say for example ff you are on a continent with mansa musa, and tokugawa, but tokugawa has blocked the center making it impossible for you and MM to contact each other for some time, this situation will have alot of the flavours that a true semi-iso situation has, but not all.

 

[AcaMetis]

Definitely never thought to look at it from the perspective of the AI. The issue I see with that definition is that if you're alone with Genghis Khan and Shaka you're still in the same effective semi-iso position, just with two AIs that can technically see each other even if they'd never plot on each other given First Impression and relative military strength. Of course my definition of lumping being isolated with Monty in the same boat as Monty being isolated by himself is obviously even more flawed. I wouldn't know where to draw a different line, though. I'd say "X number of rival AIs you can make contact with", but where to draw the line? 3? 4? 50% of the amount of rivals on the map, rounded up or down?

 

[Fippy]

Big difference between 1 or 2 (or more AIs), cos you can trade with those 2 after getting them pleased (in case of Shaka, most AIs also trade at cautious). In semi-Iso when alone with 1 AI, you can only tech trade at friendly, much more difficult.

For isolated, not very realistic (esp on deity) to get 5xp galleys, or guessing there might be a spot where they can make contact..
you know as map maker, but 0% chance for Lain finding & doing that on the Raggy map.

 

[krikav]

@Lain watching your videos has, once again, brought me back to civ. The work and commitment you put into them are simply amazing

Glad to hear you are back! I have seen alot of your posts on the forum and I appreciate your return!

 

[krikav]

[...] with 1 AI, you can only tech trade at friendly, much more difficult.

I did manage that in the NC game with Elizabeth. Ramsy founded a early religion and it spread to me early and his favourite civic is organized religion. I also had some resources that he needed.
It's very rare that you can pull something like that of, and even IF you do it, you still can only trade some techs. The possibility for tech brokering isn't there so the relative utility of trading is still less.

 

[AcaMetis]

On the Raggy map you could, as far as my testing found, barely make out the outline of someone else's culture if you looked real close at the ocean after the relevant city reached it's third ring of culture, and from there you could position a Sentry boat to make contact. In other situations, and this is why I'm hesitant to call such a situation full iso, a 5xp mounted unit also could have worked. 5xp on a mounted unit is viable with Barbs on or completely free if you get HBR and build a Stable, it just couldn't work on the Raggy map since you didn't have access to Horses.

That all said I'll admit that on Deity you're not likely to go out of your way to parade a 5xp Chariot around just in the off chance you can make contact, or in absence of Horses, getting a 5xp boat to do the same until some AI's city reaches the required level of culture to make contact or you get Optics (and then Astronomy 1, maybe 2 turns later). The tech trade at Friendly thing is also a good argument for 1 AI being a different boat than 2 AIs, regardless of what combination of Mansa/Monty/Toku you're dealing with. Though I'm still weary of calling a map full iso when you're a 5xp unit away from contact no matter how unlikely...actually, could the AI force early contact if they happen to put a Sentry unit in the right location? Do AIs even ever grab the Sentry promotion given that they cheat the vision rules anyway? It didn't matter on the Raggy map since the contact point was on literally the other side of the island, but if contact could be made by an AI putting a Sentry unit in their capitol, is there any chance of that happening?

 

[krikav]

After many, oh so many, like a seriously ungodly amount of reloads, I have obtained a new map. The start for Willem van Orange:

Spoiler :

Map details:

Spoiler :

Fractal, Tropical Climate, High Sealevel, NHNE, all else default

Isolated?

Spoiler :

Semi-Isolated

Why it's worth playing? Let's just say that this map should be a decent test of one's diplo skills.

Spoiler T15 surrounding land spoiler :

"Welcome to the jungle"

 

[krikav]

This map I think is very hard.

You play as Alexander.

Continents with all settings standard.

I did choose all AIs, and I rolled the map for some times untill I found this one, I did change the players and two other AIs starting locations to get the kind of setup I had in mind.
The start is probably abit to generous, but we have seen so many plains cows for awhile now so I think this can be nice.
Also IIRC the request is specifically for non-cooked maps, so I not dare remove/replace/add any resource.

Spoiler Starting Screen :

Spoiler Isolation? :

Semi-Iso, you are alone on the continent with one other AI.

Spoiler Why is this difficult? Turn ~12 :

You have are squeezed into a small space by the jungle with space for decent cities, allthough only the capital is really good.

Spoiler Why is this difficult? Turn ~40 :

You have no copper. You have a land disadvantage to the AI you share the continent with. You have to tech alot and have no easy way to do it.

Spoiler Why is this difficult? OpticsContact :

The Other contient is full of competent AIs, no pushovers.

Spoiler Why is this fun? :) :

Phi/Agg leader, good food start, alot of forests gives you some options. And good chances for incremental challenges as the game progresses.

 

[Imploding]

Yeah, joining the @Pedro78 cheer. Big ups Lain! Great videos you make! Good to scratch the civ 4 itch with some high level let's plays

 

[Fippy]

Veto Nukes Veetoooo

 

[AcaMetis]

For the record, you cannot liberate/gift away cities that have enemy units located nearby. I don't know the exact mechanics of that (such as what exactly qualifies as "nearby"), but that's the general idea. Incidentally,

Spoiler :

how much worse would the game have been if, as happened in one of my test games, Willem got 1280 BC Civil Service through Oracle rather than Sally grabbing Code/Confu?

 

[krikav]

No takers on the Alexander map? Would probably be good if someone better than me gives it a thumbs up or down before lain spends the effort on a lets play.