Post a (tough) Deity map for me to play

For me, best thing about playing Tokugawa is to enjoy the zoomed in battles with Samurai (at least for the first 5 attacks). That fully satisfies my desire for a flavored game. On deity you will probably not see a lot of those UU though. Looking forward to the playthrough 55 (hopefully not isolated :)
 
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Oh, macemen play a part in alot of my games.
They are a large element in cannon stacks. Cheap and able to promote along the city raider line. I build them long after their real utility is over. They do a excellent job at striking at cities after collateral damage has done their magic. And then you have a bunch of CR3 or CR3+combat maces to promote either to grenadiers or rifles.
And having a few of these units in your stack are very useful!

I imagine that the Samurai, with it's initial drill promotion and the extra first strikes, would be even better suited for this mop-up duty.
 
I think the boxed-in Pacal game was the most entertaining game you've ever played, @Lain . It was an amazing display of fortitude and perseverance against an ever-mounting AI advantage. :ar15:

I hope you a play a similar map again, not too far into the future :drool:
 
Hey Lain!

Recently got back into playing Civ and saw the juicy Toku start so I thought I'd give it a whirl.
Here's to T57 (ugly write-up with no screens, but couple of saves attached):
Spoiler :

Moved warrior 1NW on the hill (because north of the settler was all forests) and revealed the river corn. Took a while to take a settling decision, as it was either
- 1N to grab both pigs & both golds (T1 settle)
- 1N2W to grab river corn + grass pig while moving away from the initial gold (T2 settle)

Did not really consider SIP or the PH 2W simply because the start has a lot of commerce so the main bottleneck was going to be production.

Eventually decided to settle 1N because it was a more central location (could see the mountains to the West on T0) and because it allowed me to keep the second gold in BFC. With 2 golds, starting with hunting-AH and postponing agri didn't seem like an issue.

Tech order was the following: Hunting-AH-Mining-BW-Agri-Archery-Pottery-Writing

After the first worker was out, I worked the clam for 3 turns to speed up AH by 1 turn (didn't delay growth to size 2 and got both the pigs improved 1T sooner). When Kyoto reached size 2 i built a second worker to help chopping (quite unusual when you have such a great 2nd city spot available, but loads of early chopping easily made up for it). While waiting 3T for BW, workers built roads on forests to speed up later chopping. Got 2 warriors out and started on settler #1 at size 4. Then it was all chopping.

Dealing with barbs ended up being quite easy (didn't explore much in the beginning & fortified warriors on jungle/forest hills). Only built 1 archer but with all the chopping going on I could've gotten another one out quickly, had something gone wrong.

I don't think I'll play this one through, but from here I'd go Math-Currency-CoL-CS for quick Bureaucracy, bulb philo etc. Priority #1 right now (right after the granaries) is to get ~4 axemen out and raze that stupid barb city before someone else takes it and ruins the fish+rice spot.
Another option would be to beeline Engineering (with the available commerce it's possible to get there pretty early), but that would leave a LOT of GPP on the table, so getting early cannons or possibly cuirs if there's some horses around is probably superior.


Anyways, keep up with the great content on YouTube, you play a big role in keeping this game alive!
 

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I think the boxed-in Pacal game was the most entertaining game you've ever played, @Lain . It was an amazing display of fortitude and perseverance against an ever-mounting AI advantage. :ar15:

I hope you a play a similar map again, not too far into the future :drool:
I'm watching that now... yeah that is some very impressive play. Well done!
 
Spoiler :
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The true test of mighty Qin. Hemispheres map.

Spoiler :

I know I've said this several times in the past previously, but I can safely assert that THIS is the hardest map I've played on deity yet, by far. You need so much luck to remain even remotely competitively viable, especially if you're going for a domination or conquest-based victory. It took me over a dozen tries but I think I've found a way to not get left in the dust and reach a dominant position, with some skill and a lot of luck. This requires former map knowledge and copious amounts of fortune/rerolling too (if you're the type of person to do that) so it's not a totally "clean" playthrough, but I personally am fine with these measures on such a grueling save as this.

FIRST: You must walk your settler for 4 turns - this enables you to found your capital on a hill, in a way that completely blocks Genghis off, while also having 2 food and perhaps more importantly 2 luxury resources (otherwise you need monarchy for happiness and...on a map like this you have neither the commerce nor the hammers for that). You also have to walk your settler in a specific way to meet Genghis on turn 3 instead of 4, which due to the way random seeds work, gets him to tech a religion instead of going BW first. As well as allowing you to eventually get to pleased with him, this also delays when he gets the bronze in his capital, and therefore greatly reduces very early war plots (like, pre-2000BC). This means that...

SECOND: You can build and walk your settler #2 to the grassland next to the wet wheat without worrying much about defense. You can also then tech sailing -> masonry -> BW without going archery, which enables you to start on GLH faster and increases the chance that you can get in in your 2nd city.

THIRD: After you have GLH, start pumping out settlers. Settle the clam next, then the dry wheat, and last the southeast island. Stop after that - you will hereafter need to prepare for an upcoming war.

FOURTH: Make your way to machinery as fast as possible, for chu-ko-nus. I recommend self-teching MC, building a forge, and then trying to pop either a GM or GE from your GLH city. Both work - if GE, bulb machinery, and if GM, trade mission to tech machinery (and maybe with the leftover gold upgrade some archers). Tech (or if you're lucky, trade for) alpha soon later - you'll need it to tech at all after crashing the economy soon.

FIFTH: It's chu-ko-spam time. Whip your cities mercilessly. You have to be kind of lucky here because if Genghis gets feudalism you're kinda screwed, but barring that, chus do fine against keshiks, catapults, even crossbows. Yes - Genghis getting machinery (as long as he doesn't get engineering) is not a problem, because crossbows at the end of the day are only 6 combat strength without any sort of special city defense, at least from the get-go. They'll increase your losses by quite a bit but be thankful you aren't up against hilled longbows. HOWEVER, to win this war, you MUST build up a sufficient force. Start with AT LEAST 16 units, and don't stop building them until Genghis is crippled (you can leave him with 2 cities on the desert peninsula because they're not worth the time/effort but otherwise completely destroy him). Don't be afraid to take ceasefires and/or near the end, peace treaties for juicy techs. You can stop building units once his main cities are taken out and you still have a sufficient force to take the rest, to build research and limp your way to compass/optics.

SIXTH: Single (or double if you have 2 GS somehow) astro. I recommend saving at least 1 city from whipping to generate that GS. Whip 2 caravels ASAP and try to circumnavigate, meet everyone, pawn optics and soon after, astro for what you're missing. You HAVE to be quick here - if you get less than 2 trades (as in, players to trade with) for each of those techs it's probably game over. I recommend getting as many things as possible on the path to cannons, and also civil service for maces/irrigation (this continent is so food-poor your capital virtually needs irrigated farms). Personally, I got 1090-ish AD astro (IIRC), which was just fast enough to squeeze trades from JC and Cathy.

SEVENTH: After astro and taking out Genghis, you should have 15-17 cities. This is enough to comfortably reach steel, though again you have to be quick. At this point you're still probably very far behind, so you need to once again trade to (something resembling, at least for a bit) parity. Preferably get things on the way to rifling/communism. Afterwards, whip an army of cannons and maces + phants + trebs. Don't worry about starting the attack with rifles - you're probably very behind by now still, and will only get more behind the longer you wait. Time is of the essence, and despite taking it over completely, your island is still not nearly good enough to win the game (unless you pull some diplo magic like @Lain, which is legit, don't get me wrong - but the entire point of my replaying this was to find if there was SOME way to win conquest or dom). So you MUST attack someone, and do it quick.

EIGHTH: Attack, and win! If you wait to whip rifles then by the time you attack anyone you face will likely have machine guns, artillery, infantry, maybe all three. And destroyers to completely shut down reinforcements. So once you have about 8-10 ships full of units, just GO. Hopefully you have one or more supermedics from the previous war with Genghis, that you can use to heal without having to cart a GG over. Once you're able to, upgrade to rifles on the other continent, in the middle of your war. Now, who you choose to attack varies. Obviously you want to target someone without rifling (otherwise cavs and probably just rifles can completely shut down your cannons); if you can't you might be forced to wait until rifles of your own. BUT I will say from personal experience - to maximize your winning odds, take on the strongest AI you think you can beat. This prevents a major contender from winning the game, while essentially making all their techs yours (though it may take time to tech up to trade for them). Plus the stronger AIs usually are that way because of their better land, and if you have better land, it increases the hammers and commerce you can get towards contributing to that final late-game push you will need to do on this map. Specifically, on this map I would either target Surry's/JC's or Cyrus's island. In both Lain and my playthroughs, the 2 strongest AIs were found there (though in my game interestingly enough, the situation was flipped such that Giggles got the upper hand on Cathy and Surry was completely crushing JC). A VERY useful trick - if an AI is about to cap another, and you want to declare on the stronger, beg/demand from the weaker AI. The 10-turn peace treaty prevents them from capping because they aren't allowed to declare on you, allowing you a window to beat the attacking AI enough to where they either become irrelevant or are convinced to peace the attacked AI. I won't go into the specific details of warfare here, but some basic tips - CR maces => rifles make for great attackers, try to avoid getting your reinforcements frigate-sniped, find a way to deal with the AI's army first, and afterwards split your stack but be careful of secondary armies or running out of attacking cannons/rifles. Again here you have to be lucky in that the AIs you target don't go AL immediately and mass-infantry you into oblivion, but to my relief I've discovered that if AIs have oil they just rush combustion (AIs will always rush techs allowing access to resources in their territory), buying you some time - though be forewarned, destroyers will make reinforcing very difficult if not impossible as they can outrun even circumnav + navigation galleons!

NINTH: Take over the rest of the continent, if there's another civ there. That's the only way you can be strong enough to make a final stand against the strongest AI left in the game (probably Cyrus) - and you will need to do that, because 2 islands really only gives you ~50% land area at most.

TENTH: Tech and trade to tanks and nukes. This requires quite a bit of finesse but it's possible to double or triple your effective beaker rate if you trade wisely. In my game I got constitution + econ + physics from JC; and steam power for communism, electricity for AL, railroad/artillery for fission (Cathy helped here), biology for rocketry, and combustion for industrialism from Surry. Needless to say, build ironworks, factories, coal plants, and the appropriate health buildings ASAP. You may also want to build Globe Theater somewhere to deal with emancipation/motherland anger.

ELEVENTH: Assemble a fleet and an ICBM stockpile, and throw yourself at the last enemy! This is the final battle, so throw everything you have at it! Dealing with SDI is tricky, but if you're willing to fudge the system a little (well, a lot here), there's one trick I've discovered. The success rate of an ICBM is dependent on the progression of the random seed much like the outcomes of individual combats...so you can change whether an ICBM explodes or is shot down by changing what/how many combats take place before it, or what deals happened on the turn before. In practical terms, if you're OK with mass savescumming...if an ICBM fails, reload, sacrifice a tank or artillery at a city, then try again, and so forth, until it explodes (or cancel a random deal the turn before for similar effect). You will lose several units that do little or no damage in the process, but in exchange can have a significantly higher nuke success rate...a small price to pay for salvation. I recommend at least 60-70 units for the final assault, a minimum of 10 ICBMs to start, and a preemptive strike to destroy the enemy's main offensive stack(s) on the first turn of the war. After taking one or two cities, switch to tactical nuke production - you can store your nukes in newly conquered cities to nuke the next one, and so forth, until you've cleared the entire continent...or turned it into a radioactive pile of ash.

TWELFTH: Get a few border pops, and then revel in your somewhat ill-gotten but nevertheless very hard-earned and supposedly impossible, even, victory!

They said it couldn't be done, but as in the movies, Ip Man accomplishes the unthinkable, and unites the world under the glory of the Chinese Empire!

Spoiler :

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A little something extra - the AI chooses just about the worst time to launch its spaceship...right before I take the capital :crazyeye:.

Spoiler :

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I think the boxed-in Pacal game was the most entertaining game you've ever played, @Lain .
.

My all-time favorite is the "Prepare to die"-Map with Wang Kon that I had even watched twice. It's like walking on a very thin line throughout the whole game where tiny details like +1 relationship to other leaders would decide about the outcome
 
Oh nice, i forgot about this map already :)
Very well played until you started worrying too much about paying for another warrior, yup.
In such games i only look at gpt after every area is under control, those Archers can be so relentless.
(and sometimes we even see Spears :huh:)

Quote worth remembering: this area seems so peaceful :popcorn:
 
You playing that map too @Fippy ?
I'm having a go at it myself right now.

Abit cheating, since one knows it's iso, so I just wandered abit inland and didn't settle untill T4.
Having the capital in a central place feels sweet, as the T50 culture can take care of soo much tiles. Also city upkeep later on can also be nice, when capital is in the center it's more flexible where you can place cities.

I agree on securing the area, I spammed warriors like crazy in the beginning to make sure everything is safe, might cost me too much though...

T40 screenshot:
Spoiler :

I could have gotten the sheep online earlier if I had worked unimproved river, but I made a PH mine first instead.
Southern warrior covers a nice area. One archer spawned up north but two warriors on a hill should be able to deal with him.
There is a area in the west I'm worried about too, but I don't think I can delay settler too much.
I reason that it's worth the slight economic loss, since one saves soo much not having to go hunt->archery..

Monarchy feels nice here, but I'm not sure.
Civ4ScreenShot0005.JPG

 
I played it longer ago, taking a Civ break currently.
Imo we can say that looking at gpt loss from warriors comes from a certain mindset, okay i save on Archery now i want an even better start.
While it's much more healthy to think "i can invest a little of what i saved into security".
 
Yup, totally agree ;). Saving 1 gold at all cost was just me being overly neurotic for no reason. And I thought "This map is going to be hard, so I need to squeeze out every gold I can" + false sense of security because "nothing happened so far".

But good thing to learn I think, for me aswell. When going with warrior defense, don't be too greedy and build enough.
 
Spoiler T146 :


Sometime right after BW I whip one worker and chop another, up to 4 total, and I think that is where I stayed, or perhaps I got one more later.
Once there are 5 cottages in capital, a new city is settled to utilize the sheep. I orphan that clam but I want to reach all wines.
@BW
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@Writing
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@Monarchy, I shut down the slider for ages here. I build an academy and want to grow the capital but with a lone sheep it's not easy. Southern helper gets to hold all plains-cottages. Trying to work all cottages all the time.
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Calculating that I'll get my third GSci around T144 (turns out i was wrong, I had to juggle abit to enable horse-city to finish it's GSci first, as that city was less well equipped for the third GSci marathon.
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Now I thought capital was big enough and the cash store large enough, but I had to go 0% for some more turns later on, during those 0% turns the capital takes the sheep and lends away the plains cottages and instead work two scientists.
I'm building monuments in Bejin, Nanjin and Shanghai, partly because I don't have much else to build, but I also have an idea of a culture victory as fallback. Feels like there is nice synergy with the UB and with massive cottagespam.
With abit of luck, I get alot of different religions spread after astro.
Main plan is to work some action with drafted rifles.

I think that I made a mistake of settling Chengdu, don't think it contributed enough before the optics bottleneck, and that might have costed me alot of trades later on.... >_<
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Capital is nice.
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I screwed up and finished optics with massive overflow (put that into math) and trades where bad. I did get some stuff from optics though from Monty, Gilga and SB.
West and East doesn't know each other, and there seem to be some unclaimed land in the north. I have a few settlers that I planned to settle onshore but might whip a galley for them instead.
Have to see what trades are available and analyze diplo situation and make a plan now.
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I like this Mao map alot better. :)
 
Spoiler T186 :


I had to cash in on astronomy pretty much right away, to get my hands on currency and toward CS.
Had some nice brokering going on, getting guilds from gilgamesh, then trading that for philo with SB then having philo to trade to monty+gilgamesh.
I was hoping for Buddhism spread, as I had sighted Monty as my first target, I also traded Feud to Rosey getting severe diplo hits with Gilga/Monty, but I felt I had too as he was defending against never ending Montystacks on a hilled city.

Grown cities to ridiculus sizes and claimed some overseas territory while teching toward rifling.
I was very unlucky with religion autospread, only got an annoying minority religion, it was only T181 that I finally got one of the two major religions.
GPgeneration I have ignored because I wanted pacifism for that, but in hindsight I should really have dedicated one city to getting at least one GPersons so I could run a GA now soon.

Could revolt and start drafting, but that would be w/o theocracy and the only target I could have success with is Rosey. SB is also a thinkable candidate but both these guys are so far away. >_<
Diplo is somewhat under wraps, I begged from the Buddhist before becomming a Hindu, abit worried that Gilga would start plot against me though.
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They are teching fast. Probably abit my fault as I gave them Astro away so early, those observatories and overseas traderoutes have probably boosted them.
Didn't get much of the essential techs in trades, have self-teched PP, RP and rifling, got nationalism, edu/eco/lib/scimeth in trades though.
Starting to think that I should delay any attack so I can hit with rifles+cannons, that would likely make it possible to strike someone stronger first.
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@Lain I saw you go for the Confu religion. (I disabled choose religions btw, can't stand that confusion.).
Thats something I usually don't like doing as it makes me a heathen in everyones eyes and it makes diplo difficult.

But in my game now, I held out for religion autospread and never seemed to get it. Now I think my position is worse because of it.
Excited to see part3 from you! :)
 
Spoiler T278 :

Well... I just got my first vassal, but things are not looking that great.

The entire game has been one of cat and mouse. I try to catch up and get enough of an edge but at every turn they slip away from me.
I was just about to get at Augustus but then he and Hammy formed a defensive pact... Tried to piggyback against Rosey and bribed Monty/Gilga away from him only to have them redeclare 1-2 turns later. Boosting them significantly in the process.

Hammy Hates me and I'm getting to a point where it can't be helped even if I go into free religion and burocracy, and soon I'll have a bunch of spaceships to hunt down too on opposite ends of the world. And everyone with inland capitals too.
At least it doesn't look like there is any risk of someone going culture anytime soon.

I'm horribly inexperienced at this stage of warfare too, so proportions of my stacks are constantly off with too little and too much of alot of units.
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GAs went really smooth, but late. Gained about 5000GPpoints between T200 and T207, enough to get 3 Gpersons out and fill up the bars so I got 3-5 merchants later on.
 
Spoiler T299 Loss :

SB had bribed Rosey on me, so finished Rosey first. He was willing to capitulate before I took any cities, but I wanted his capital, it was loaded with 5 settled great generals. :)
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Had very nice T0 Access to August, so attacked there, then I picked of cities along the coast untill he capitulated.
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The turn August is willing to capitulate, Hammy launches his spaceship.
This is very bad news as his capital isn't coastal. Coastal capitals are so much easier to snipe down. I need nukes to have any chance of getting at this one.
Had SB go for fision when I got him, but the traitor revolted back to Buddhism (shouldn't have asked him to be a hindu..>_< ) and lost me a valuable turn.
When he finally gets to fission he have gotten medicine already and I have to pay him refrigeration+2000g for fission, submarines are ready and the rest of the army too, allthough it's probably too meager to d o much I figured it could buy me time.
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That was close, could perhaps have gotten that by playing better!
As I have to get Hammys capital next turn, I load up the two only tactical nukes I managed to get in time in Guangzhou and move my fleet toward Dur-Kur.
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When I saw this notification, I was pretty sure that it was GG, but made a last grasp anyway.
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This one fell pretty easily, although it took some Marine blood (The first waves get 17% odds). Bombard to 0%, strike with alot of fighters and then attack with marines.
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Now the submarine moves in and launches it's nukes. 7 bombers are also ready to strike from SittingBulls cities.
After the mushroom cloud, paratroopers are going to jump in and burn Babylon to the ground.
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Both fizzle down by SDI.
And thats that.
With only 15 troopers I probably needed both to hit really.
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GG Hammy! Well played keeping you continent in your religious block, lucking out not spreading Buddhism to me, and signing defensive pacts when I needed it the least. :)
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Best of luck to @Lain in your attempt!
And thanks to @Fippy for a nice lovely iso map. :)
 
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