Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Lain, Jul 19, 2017.
I think Lain have been pretty lucky that there has been no major use of the PRO trait too.
I also think IND is a rather "challenging" trait (on random deity fractal). I'd definitely rather have FIN, CRE, PHI, EXP, SPI, CHA or ORG. Meaning I'd rate IND higher than only IMP, AGG, PRO. And now that I think about it, I really like both IMP and AGG, because they help the early game a lot.
Getting the popcorn out...
Doubt i will get into this one seriously (thus my interview earlier),
but it's certainly funny that he built GLH in many of the difficult maps, while mentioning IND in this way.
Arguments that you can also do so without it are questionable, cos we all know that deity AIs can always steal those wonders if you get unlucky so time matters.
I would also like to mention that i see IND as great trait for the most challenging of maps, cos those either have very limited land (3 city islands anybody?) or poor land, and wonders are called wonders cos they do..wonders!
I'll consider the possibility that I have a weakness in not going for early wonders enough on tough deity starts.
Is there other wonders than GLH and Pyramids that you think of?
I would say the Globe Theatre benefits a lot from the industrious trait. Maybe also ironworks.
Also industrious trait makes the aesthetics/literature line more attractive. No marble? Well, with industrious it can still be possible to get the Great library and National Epic.
Watching the part7 now, I'm really amazed at how dilegant you are about conserving your units.
I think this is clearly a part that I need to pay more attention to, I have a tendancy to be way to frivolous with my units, and in thight spots where production/food is scarse, that really hurts.
Adding Oracle, not very popular but in Lain's Qin game for example i might think about it (if not for GLH).
If we get MC, a cheap forge can be built in a different city and Machinery bulbed later for Chokus (they are lots of fun )
IND would make a difference, cos there's no time for BW if we need Reli techs & Pottery.
Also much easier with the forge.
a natural generated immortal map, very tough
Spoiler i can sure there's no worldbuilder stuff :
I would try but ouch huge world size is too annoying, fishing already takes 8t.
it has a plot twist ...
For me, one of the best episodes! It looked so grim at one point that nobody in their right mind would claim that the win was cheesy. Bonus points for making good use of both IND and PRO. Also liked that the last part didn't say "final", just to keep the tension.
I really enjoyed this game too!
I did play a shadowgame and (probably due to map knowledge) had a much stronger position at 1AD. However I managed to completely screw that up with horrid unit management.
@Lain Really good job! Easily up there somewhere in a top5 with the Fredrich vs Napoleon and Pacal vs Kublai games!
i would def. say IND is better than Org thou..
you mentioned cheaper buildings, but honestly i would rather have discount on forges than CHs or factories later (maybe).
Also cheaper LH does not really help that much for GLH, 2 pop whip gives nice overflow.
ORG is terrible on pangea or any small maps. In general it's a "win more" mechanic. Yeah if you get 20 cities it's nice, but it does nothing to help get you to 20 cities and once I get 20 cities I don't need any help. Here's some photos that I posted on here a lifetime ago.
The game is on the edge of winnable at this point, but I'm about to do a cuir breakout so this is the last time my economy is relevant.
I didn't build a single courthouse or lighthouse all game (conquered one). Literally would have been better off with PRO here.
IND is always amazing because it makes failgold amazing.
*Edit: also I missed you mylene
@drewisfat For me, org is a very nice trait.
The game is seldom over for me once I find myself in the situation you describe.
I have a somewhat firm grasp of the game so that I can often (far from always) get to a comfortable situation with alot of land.
But when I do get to that position, it's not like i'm out of the woods. There is still alot of ways I can screw up and turn that situation which is in theory winable or even won into a loss.
And when I have distrubed the delicate balance of the won game I do have to collect myself again, and having less maintenence, or easily being able to whip a round of courthouses can really get me going to the next stage in tech where I get a new chance.
"Oh, I failed with cuirs, onward to cav!" "Oh, I seem to have suicided way too many cavs... Oh well, I need cannons now too." "Eh, the leader AI seem to be awfully close to AL, I need to get there too." etc etc.
And the cheap factories does miracles when I do get to AL which is often something that I shoot for anyway.
So I see the point you are making, once you know how to win it ORG doesn't really do that much for you. But from my point of view and in my situation, it does give me more leeway to get through even though I do dumb mistakes.
Org struggles on maps with much AI contact, cos there are so many ways to extract gold from them (and also GMs).
Much better on island type maps where LHs really help, or in Iso / Semi.
IND is probably better than I give it credit for . Was certainly useful in this game.
Can still think of some scenarios where it's basically like playing without a trait. Inland start isolation without stone/marble, for example. On the other hand, PHI / FIN can pretty much always be used.
Maybe you are slightly underestimating Pyras possibilities, Lain.
While stone gives more prod, it can also be in annoying spots (no food, desert or so), with IND we can found any suitable city with lots of forests and start chopping there.
Great for low commerce maps, or happy struggles.
Even if they are stolen by an AI, we still had a 1.5/1 hammers - wealth ratio,
and did not have to settle a crappy stone city.
Was forced to resign rather quickly from this map, so it might hit the spot of some folks
Separate names with a comma.