Power of rush buy, for all CE lovers.

[Swiss Pauli]

Well, Wang is protective, so I guess that makes him half useless! Toku isn't very inspiring in Warlords, and he can research Pottery straight away.

I thought the Pyramids was a fairly obvious gambit for this variant. If we really want to go down this road then an industrious leader would be needed, in case there's no stone. I'd prefer to go Pyramids only with stone, but I don't see it as a game-breaking decision.

 

[Mutineer]

OK, Here is the start.
At the end of the day I decided to take Saladin.
Reasoning. Protective, useless trait, spiritual - powerfull but limited by our civic restrictions. Build bonus to temples is not mach use, as we will have low production and bonus does not apply to rush buy.
UU middle age and not too good.
UB - situational.

So, definatly not the best leader for the variant.
On a positive side, spiritual allow for easier SG play.

So, here is the start, I moved warrior on plain hill, the only resonable location to move and open to suggestions base on what we see.

PS: Sorry for picture in attachment, but I run out of upload space and have no idea how to show attachment picture.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Well, we can settle in place, move two south (to keep 2 FP for a marble city 1N of the warrior), or two east to get all the visible FPs into the capital (and use the fish for another city).

If we settle in place we might as well try to grab Hinduism or Buddhism. I'd favour the former, as that marble is very likely to be ours, and it speeds Mandirs.

I guess we're trying for a cultural win, so cheap temples and multiple religions would be convenient. Then we can buy-rush cathedrals.

 

[Jet]

2E would block the Fish, but that would not be too bad. E/NE would also be OK. It might have no resources, but it or 2E could be OK for Oxford. E/NE might partially block the fish, if there's a resource 2S of the start.

We should consider the Oracle. For example, Oracle to Metal Casting could give an Engineer either for the Pyramids, or for Machinery, for Protective Crossbows and on the path to Camel Archers and Banking. E/NE would get Marble in time.

Except for an early Cultural, I think the Pyramids would be better for early Representation and Police State than for early or midgame Universal Suffrage. I doubt rush buying will be worthwhile until late, when we have a lot of mature cottages and the cost of buildings and units is lower compared to the cost of techs. I don't think low production in the early and mid Renaissance would be a bad problem if we planned for it.

I agree that flood plains and Mysticism give us a good position for Hinduism, and that Hinduism would be good for Cultural, but I disagree that we have decided on Cultural, and I still think Cultural would not be interesting. Poly is also on the way to Priesthood. I think Poly is worth researching first if we want Cultural or the Oracle.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

You're right about 2E blocking the fish...must be the heat affecting my eyes, so scrap that idea.

Space wouldn't really illustrate rushbuying as well as culture, seeing as Apollo and SS Parts can't be bought. Not a big fan of military wins, as they tend to be very straigtforward once momentum is established.

 

[ungy]

I would vote for settling in place and going for hindu.

As for the VC, I think premature to decide before we see what the continent looks like.

I am away for the next week, so I will need a skip this round.

 

[ungy]

Space wouldn't really illustrate rushbuying as well as culture, seeing as Apollo and SS Parts can't be bought.

well all the other buildings--factories, labs, etc can. IMHO culture at emp depends only on not getting attacked late, if the opponents are not aggressive you can win easily with 6 cities, 2 religions and no rush buying/late whipping.

Not a big fan of military wins, as they tend to be very straigtforward once momentum is established.

agree, but I think would be interesting with our constraints.

 

[GreyFox]

Settling in place is good, though it does waste one precious floodplains, it gives 2 fresh water. The abundance of food in the original site is not very useful (no drafting/whipping), but it does lends itself well for a hybrid cottage + specialists spam.

An alternative is to settle 1N2E. That will lose the cows, but we can always settle a city 1S of cows. Since the blue circle is there, there should be one more resources in the fog towards the east.

I am okay with any victory type, leaning more towards one of the peaceful approach.

@Muntineer: do not waste your precious upload space with images! Use photobucket (requires registration, but it's free and allows you to organize your images into different sub-folders) or imageshack (simple one time upload, no registration hassle).

@Jet: Priesthood -> Oracle -> Metal Casting -> 20 turns for the first engineer to appear seems pretty late to be able to get Pyramids before Emperor AIs. I think if we want the Pyramids, we must go for it right away.

 

[Mutineer]

Well after some consideration of settling 2 north (I wander why no one consider it), Plain hill settle and marble in a fat cross. But at the end of day I decidd agains, as it would be to shield poor in a long run.
I in favor of running to himduism, so I did settle in place, Warrior went exploring north. Research set to hindyism. Our tech does not let as to do anything a flood plans alow for easier glow and more commerce for more research.
So, production set to warrior.

here position in point when we successfully get hindyism.
Research I set to fishing, I think quick fish is a best option here.

Warning We still do not have any contact.

I begin to suspect that we got isolated start. I actially wellcome it, if we did.



So, what next?

 

[Jet]

Who's up now? Maybe post the save?

Fishing is OK, but unless it has been started, I think Agr -> AH would be better. It would take a while to build the Work Boat. The Farms would be mediocre but the Pasture would be great (maybe time the Worker with AH), and if we see Horses, we already have The Wheel for Chariots and Mysticism for a border pop.

Hunting -> AH wouldn't be bad either.

 

[Mutineer]

Well, I think I am still up. It is just a very start, I am in favor playing a few more turn, moving thinks alone.

 

[Mutineer]

BTW, I do not see what wrong with fishing. It will take very long time to research animal hasbentry and build worker.
Fishing is only 5 turns, city grow to size 3, so could be reconfigured for 5 floodpain 3 F 1 commerce, grass forest hill 1 food 2 shield, plain hill 2 shild = 5 shield/tunr in lost of 1 food/2 commerce. 6 turns to fishboat.
So, in just 11 turns fish will be there. Worker plan is mach more slow.
I am in favor of fishing- mining- bronse working. and then in direction of pottery.

WE have religion for some whipping exploitation.

 

[GreyFox]

I agree with fishing as well. Good thing is the growing part. Question is after Fishing where do we go? Poly for Hinduism, Mining > Masonry for Pyramids, Pottery for early cottages, or Hunting > animal husbandry?

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Fishing's good. Aside from the food, it'll be good to get a WB out there exploring.

Thereafter, I'm not sure: AH is tempting as horses are very useful in the early game, but Mining/BW is great too. Fishing also opens up Pottery, and early FP cottages are very tempting. I'd probably say Fishing - Pottery - Mining - BW.

 

[ungy]

Haven't had much time to think about it but my gut feel would be to go fishing-ag-ah-min-bw. I'm just a bit fan of getting the big tiles hooked up early. We need to hook up units-horse or bronze and get some fog busters out there. A lot to do quickly--especially with the delay of the religion (which I think was worth it). Fishing-wb slows us down some more but I think also worth it. I think pottery has to wait. We should delay hunting as we may want to build warriors for happy.

If we are isolated, that would be good here. Tough to win with this leader/land but interesting.
I'm out for a week so need a skip.

 

[Mutineer]

OK, played next small set of turns.

Research went Fishing-Mining-Bronse working-

I grow capital to size 4, befor starting fishboat with +6 shields, took 5 turn to build. After that I set to produce an other warrior, why MM city working cost to finish BW faster.

So, I just finished Bronse working, production set to worker with intent to whipe it next turn.

Still no contacts, which is a bit strange as there a lots of land.

Here what we know:



Here is capital:



AS you can see, we have cooper in big ring of capital. Marble is very inconviniently placed. If we Settle on marble or next to it city would nove no food resources. With out marble I do not think Oracle is a good idea, but may be it still is, for monarchy or Mettalocasting.

A few hats give as map and some gold.

PS: It is castomary for orgoniser to play about 40 turns, useally untill first worker or settler, as at that time one useally just more one unit and can be played extrimelly fast. I stop only in critical point to have discussion.

Right now we really need to decide nnearest direction.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

We could settle on that grass hill, that would get sheep in the second ring. If we farm the FP that it would share with Mecca, it'll grow well until the sheep can be hooked up. Other than that, we should explore to the south to find a better site and forget Oracle.

Aside from Mecca, the land doesn't scream cottage cheese, does it?

 

[Mutineer]

Yes, that Grass hill seems to be the only posibility for fast Oracle. If we do Oracle, what do we want from it? We have choise between Monarchy (We allready see Whines not too far away) or mettalocasting.
With whip overflow Oracle can be build pretty fast just with food and connected marble.
New warrior go south now, I am thinking to delay whipping worker untill allmost 30 shield overflow and fast build 2 warriors with it.
Will work for fogbusting and faster exploration.

In a way I want to show power of early whip overflow, which let to use food for shield production, in time when we do not have wny shiled ties developed.

 

[Mutineer]

Common folk, comments. Are we going for Oracle or not.

If we go for Oracle(monarchy) tech pach is:
massonry-Priesthood-Agreeculture- pottery or(Hanting-animal husbentry)
This is my preference, as happiness resources far away and in cold.
If we isolated it is my believe in research low level tech with max prerequisites and happiness from Monarchy will let as to whipe and grow cottages early.

If we go for Oracle(Mettalocasting), tech path is
Massonry-priesthood-Pottery
Advantage of this is with fast whipe of forge in capital and hiring engeneer chance to get GE and piramids. Disadvantage as Forge happiness resources are far away and if we isolated it is useless tech for a long time.

WE do need to decide NOW which path to follow, as all development is stricly dependent on our choise.

If no Oracle My suggestion would be:
Agreeculture-Potter-hunting- animal hasbentry-Priesthood-Writing.

 

[Mutineer]

I would not have time to play later to day and on monday, so I played now.

In absence of commments I made executive decision to go for Monarchy Oracle.

So, I put 2 turns into worker befor whiping it, which let me to produce 2 warriors from overflow.
Send worker to build road to marble city.

In 4 turns we will be able to whipe settler. It will take 5 turns to build road to second city and on top of marble, so the moment we settle second city we can start to build Query(6 turns).
so, to build second city 4 turn production/whipe 1 turn to finish, 2 turns to move=7 tunrs + 6 turn to Query = 13 turns to Marble avalible.

This is enoght to reseach Priesthood or priesthood/granary.

IN this 4 turns I played we meat Bismark and Masta, so we are not alone on this contients, but I suspect they are resonably far away from as.




roster
Mutineer - Setting up for Oracle.
ungy - skeep
Swiss Pauli- Up now
Jet
GrayFox

For first Round I say play 15 turns or untill decision must be made.