Power of rush buy, for all CE lovers.

[Mutineer]

OK, load save, everyhting look right, except I fired a few engeneers and changed a few tie to increase effect of GA. We actially allready have HE! nice.

Asked kindly Brenus for his money and he give it to as.
Set research to 100%, liberalism in 2 turns.
Press enter.

GS born.
Traded Nationalism + Word map + little gold for Engeneerig + Optics from Brenus. I intent to trade with Masta and that will Lover Brenus opinion on as. So, better get his tech first.
Enter

Liberalism-(Representation)-Printing press.
Used GS
Traded Nationalism + Optics = Guilds + Music + gold from Masta
Printing press 1 turn.
did not revolt, as I want to get now visible banking first.
Start moving our army to Bismark borders and produce our UU in HE city.
It is fast enogth to get to fron lines fast and good right now. Immune to first strikes and big retreat bonus.
Enter

Printing press - democracy
Traded Representation + Printing press = banking + divine right.
Masta really tight on tech.
last turn of GA
Shot down research.
Research shot down to upgrade our army. We have some expitience Axes and chariots.
Rank 5 revolt to:
Representation-Free press-castle system-Merkantenilism-Pacifism
Logic: Representation increase effect of specialist and we are going to war with Bismark, which will give as War wareness. Representation frees our happiness army. Free press make our towns more effective and increase our culture expand. We have enogth town to make it better then Burocracy.
Markantenilism give as a lot of specialists and Pacfism will let as to use all bunch of specialists i intent to hire to produce GM, which we now can send overseas for our Banks Buying Rush with coming Democracy.

Hired a lot fo Merchants to make full use of all representation specialists.
Move freed army to bismark borders.
culture slider 10%
Enter
Declared on bismark.
Move army in.
In next few turns, took all german cities, exept one. Army converge to it, should be taken in 2 turns.


ON very interesting note, for team discussion.

Masta offer to become Volontary vassal.
I refused, but option is still avalible.


Even Brenus does not like us mach now, if we take Masta Vassal Our combine military power should prevent him from attacking us. So, we probably can accept Masta offer.
I never befor took volontary vassal, but may be we should. Going for domination we are not likly loose power to loose masta as vassal. On other hand, we did not made contacks with other continent yet. I would rather do not have diplomatic - just yet, if there any opportunity for trades with other continent.

Some one on other continent found that earch is round.
In 1-2 turns next GP wil be born in capital and in hope for GM capital building caravell right now. I hope for GM, so we can sent it oversea probably fing ToA city for a good profit.

2 of our other caravels exploring around.

I starving some cities for more gp points, culture slider at 30%, I do not want to starve population with unhappiness. War should finsihed in 2 turns, so do not forget to drop slider after war.

With discovery of democracy we should start Sol somewhere, revolt to US and start out main startegy with rush buying our factories(Banks) in our best commercial cities.

 

[Jet]

Wow, what a turnset! That is a lot of action for 10 turns.

One note: speaking of Great Merchants, Economics has not been won yet. (I'm not sure whether we should attempt it.)

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Well, if we're going for Domination then I'd not take Mansa as a vassal, but rather carve him up with Brennus, then backstab Brennus who will be on better terms from MMS.

I'm up and I should be able to play tomorrow.

 

[Jet]

Eureka! (an idea, not the game ) If we run maximum merchants in Mecca this turn (pop 17 = 18 merchants) we will lose 1 pop in Mecca but get a great person next turn, roughly 50% chance of a Merchant. Maximum merchants for the best chance of getting one. A Merchant could lightbulb Economics and maybe win the race!

 

[Mutineer]

GM, even if we get one will LBonly half of economy.
I would rather not risk it and just follow plan. On other hand, we can check Masta did he researched Education yet. Oversea folk crearly know education by now, as they build Universaty of Sankore long time ago.
And I really hate to loose population in CE, as it is hard to regrow.

 

[Mutineer]

I load save to check somethign and noticed that by some reason a worker build wartemill on top of plantation at silver city.
That was not my intentions, probably I misclick.
Please, cancel that, better use workers to speed up silver mine, as we need happiness

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Played my turns and missed the watermill thing. Will report tomorrow am CET.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

We take Essen, suffering only minor indigestion, and, more importantly, we also get or Great Merchant, who has a brief nap then jumps in a caravel to meet Louis the Backward:





Why is he so behind in tech: this is Warlords Emperor? I sell him CoL for his gold, and accept his offer of open borders a few turns later. Soon enough, I have my answer:




Gotta love Monty the Mad! On the same turn, I trade Lib & 100g to Mansa for Guns. Mansa has Chemistry too, so I cancel the Iron trade and replace it with Banana, as I don't think he has any other metals.

Meet Roosy (who also has Chemistry) and sell him Music for 170g and his map. This reveals a very strangely shaped continent, with all manner of cultural pressure. If we want to go for Domination, then we should be sure how much of this land we need: if we attack France, Aztec culture will come flooding in and need to be forcibly removed, etc.

The GM is headed to Rheims; Orleans houses ToA, but we can't see it from Roosy's map. Paris is pretty large, so we could conduct the trade mission there. I'm handing over 1 turn early, as we've just learned Democracy, and we need to decide where to build SoL: Hamburg would be quicker than Mecca, but costs us our unit pump. Given that we might want Chemistry before spamming units again, I'd vote for Hamburg. SoL should be started somewhere before hitting enter.

@team - the gov is causing problems with the no mines rule: when I picked up the save many cities were working mines. I switched around twice in my set, which is OK, but I wouldn't want to do this after every growth in a city with a resource mine.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/96651/Saladin_Rushbuy_AD-1390.CivWarlordsSave

 

[Mutineer]

WE are permitted to work resource mines.
Idea of variant was to have as little MM as posible, so we can work resource mines. We just can not have normal mines/workshops/mills in more then 2 cities.

I think we should immidiatly revolt to universal sufferidge/emansipation and some other religious civic. I think Org religion when we still mass producing buying building and later switch to Theorcracy when we start mass buying military units.

We should fire specialists and again grow cities. Shot down research in order to rush buy Market for happiness/Banks for our income and groseries in high income cities and cities needed health. Some forges will do to for happiness.
Note when rush bying, wait for minimum for a turn in order to avoid penalty from rush buying of 0 shields invested.

I am agains stopping military production in HE city. It has HE+ Mil Academy and it is criminal not to use them. Our UU is pretty good to be produced allmost eveyr turn in it.
Choise some other city for Sol.

I am sure we can trade chemistry for something. We should not trade democracy away in order to get Sol and ability to slow down AI even more with unhappiness, but I do not think it is too high priority to build Sol ASNP. With our Representation it is not too powerfull, but still very nice.

Research vise we shotting it down for now, but probably should set to Mil Tradition, if no one has it yet. We can upgrade our expirience elephants to Cav. Cav eat greens for breakfast. If option is still avalible I am in favor to accept Masta as volontary vassal and declare on Brenus as soon as we ready, after infrustructure is bought and army is rushed.

So, that is in short my plan.
Shot down research, rush buy commercial/happiness infrastructure and may be some Unies in best commercial cities. Crunch research up to Mil Traditions.
Rush buy units, some siege, Cav, Greens if we trade chemistry. Declare on Brenus and take him out. research steel for Cannons and then go in direction of biology.

When I come home and look on save I will give more comments.

 

[Mutineer]

OK, load save and I have only a little to add to my previous advice:

First I think we should build city there:
Whales are good for happiness, in with out slavery we need as mach happiness as posible to compencate for WW.


Here is offending windmill I build by mistake on top of plantation. We betetr build plantation back.


WE probably should stop trading with Masta for a time, he is too advanced.

 

[Jet]

Eureka (the game, not an idea.)

I prefer to turn off research after Military Tradition, so that Hamburg can start building Cavalry sooner, and because most of our core cities are almost done with their Banks already.

As I said before our continent has about 655 land tiles, which is 63.16% of the total land tiles on the map. I counted the tiles on our continent, and you can infer the total from F9. For that reason I think Mansa's land is better than the long-term benefit of having him as a vassal.

Why don't I make Hittite into our second production city and build the Statue of Liberty there. It has pretty good food and production and is close to Brennus (for the war with him) and coastal (for boats at the end of the game).

 

[Mutineer]

To be true, I just want to do oversea invasion and investigate volontary vassal.
Idea is to buy banks/markets/forget(we have cities argently needed happiness), groseries( we have cities needed health) and UNies befor starting research. It will be fast enogth.

May be we should delay revolts for just one turn to let Last Bismark city expand it's borders(it need one turn with current castle system).

 

[Jet]

We're in US + FS + Eman + Merc + OR.
I did the trade mission, finished Military Tradition, and built and bought a bunch of buildings.
Cities are transitioning to military builds. Come to think of it, we might want Colosseums while we're still in OR.
I'm building the Statue of Liberty in Mecca because of the Town hammers there.
Brennus has Military Tradition.
Mansa will trade Chemistry for Military Tradition.
Louis is unfriendly and has Astronomy, so we should probably position a couple units for defense.

Our Empire is in very nice shape:



Details:

Spoiler :

-1: 1390 AD
Tweak stuff, revolt to Universal Suffrage and Organized Religion. Stay in Caste system for border pops in Essen and the Silver city we'll found. I realize that the Town hammers will make Mecca much more productive, so I decide to leave it as the second production city, and build the Statue of Liberty there.

0: 1400 AD
Frankfurt Bank -> Hindu Missionary
Hamburg Temple -> Camel Archer
Munich Bank -> Hindu Missionary
Dortmunt Courthouse -> Bank
Chehalis Forge -> Bank
Stuttgart Granary -> Forge
Rush Market in Berlin (it's unhappy) for 249.
Rush Lighthouse in Essen for 162.

Wang Anshi disembarks. Paris offers 2300 for a trade mission. Orleans might offer more since it has the ToA, but we can't see it on our map, so I can't preview its yield. I suspect Paris is just as good, since it's size 21, and coastal (Harbor), whereas Orleans must be inland. So I just do the mission in Paris.

1: 1410 AD
Mecca Temple (eliminating unhappy) -> resumes Bank. Rushed for 336 because I want to start SoL ASAP.
Medina Bank -> Hindu Missionary
Damascus Bank -> Work Boat
Hamburg Camel Archer -> Camel Archer
Hittite Courthouse -> Bank
Berlin Market -> Taoist Temple. Rushed for 174 (Berlin is still unhappy, and it already had hammers in it)
Essen Lighthouse -> Forge
Hamburg Camel Archer -> Trebuchet
Rush Granary in Dusseldorf for 12.
Brennus requests Printing Press. Since we're back in OR, he's Friendly (+18, -5). I refuse. "How shortsighted of you." Oh no, Brennus. Not shortsighted at all.

2: 1420
Mecca Bank -> Statue of Liberty. Due in 21 turns. It's stagnant at its happy cap with maximum production, Engineer + 3 Priests. I want to give it all the production it can get, and a shrine wouldn't hurt.
Damsascus Work Boat -> Grocer
Frankfurt Hindu Missionary -> Grocer
Berlin Temple -> Forge
Munich Hindu Missionary -> Grocer
Settle Baghdad on the spot suggested by Mutineer (so that it can work the Silver). Runs Artist and starts Lighthouse.
Spread Hinduism to Stuttgart.

3: 1430
Damascus Hindu Missionary -> Courthouse
Hamburg Trebuchet -> Grocer (for growth)
Cologne Bank -> Courthouse
Rush Forge in Berlin for 285.
Fur hooked up.
Since Mecca can now grow, I interject a Grocer into its build queue.

4: 1440
Brennus demands we cancel our deals with Mansa, which are OB, Banana for 5 GPT, and Clam for Sheep. Brennus is Furious with Mansa. I refuse. Brennus drops to Pleased. I sell him Sheep for 3 GPT, which he says is "Excellent!"
Louis demands Gunpowder. He does not have Astronomy and we are one turn from Military Tradition. I laugh in his face.
Berlin Forge -> Grocer
Rush Grocer in Mecca for 342.

6: 1460
Military Tradition finishes. Turn slider to 0% and start Chemistry.
Currently we are earning 422 GPT, or 140 Hammers per turn.
Munich Grocer -> Hindu Missionary
Spread Hinduism to Chehalis.
Baghdad's borders have expanded (actually, last turn), so I adopt Emancipation.
Brennus has Military Tradition. That's good: the game has become too easy.


7: 1470
Medina Courthouse -> Hindu Missionary
Frankfurt Grocer -> Hindu Missionary
Stuttgart Forge -> Courthouse
Rush Lighthouse in Baghdad for 143.

8: 1480
Damascus Grocer -> Stable
Frankfurt Hindu Missionary -> Stable
Hamburg Trebuchet -> Cavalry
Munich Hindu Missionary -> Barracks
Cologne Courthouse -> Grocer
Chehalis Bank -> Market
Rush Forge in Dusseldorf for 270
Rush Forge in Essen for 258
Baghdad Lighthouse -> Forge

9: 1490
Frankfurt Stable -> Cavalry
Hamburg Cavalry -> Cavalry
Berlin Grocer -> Aqueduct
Munich Barracks -> Trebuchet
Rush Bank in Dortmund for 252
Rush Bank in Hittite for 306

10: 1500
Medina Hindu Missionary -> Trebuchet
Dortmund Bank -> Grocer
Hittite Bank -> Market
Whale hooked up.

 

[Mutineer]

I did not look on save, only on report.
It does not matter mach, as we will win anyway, but you made a lots of big mistakes and been very wasteful.

First, one always should try to do ONE THIN AT TIME and do it well.
You wasted 3000+ commerce researching Mil Tradition.
It was mach better to spend this gold to rush buying Infrastructure, including libraries/units befor resuming research.
Bunch of our big commercial cities even do not have cheap libraries. Research of Mil tradition could be done about 30% cheaper with this building, just this ONE Tech, saving 1000 commerce= about 2000 gold would have played for rushing buy science buildings.

Power of rush buy is lying not only in good commerce-shield conversion, but in ability to shift ALL civilization power to production what one need RIGTH NOW.

Second, did I read report right so you revolt to Castle system just to expand borders in new city?
You stop cottage grow in all our civilization and stop happiness pressure on our rivals just to expand borders of size 1 city?
With rush buy you can expand border of any city in just 3 turns.
Turn 1 found city, set production to theatre.
Turn 2 Rush buy theatre
Turn 3 hire 1 artist for 1 turn.

Now would be time to start rushing buying army, we need about 5 trebuchets, some garrison units like Muskets and to upgrade cavalry.
Problem is, we can not revolt to Theocracy.

So, we can not build good units yet.

That what I got from report, I can not look on save befor I come home from work.

My advice now will be: use time befor we can revolt to Theocracy to continue rush buy infrastructure, check that cities have barracks. Revolt to theocracy, set all cities to military production, rush buy trebuchets in cities near Brenus. Other should build some garrison units. WE have coastal units garrisoned by nothing or by our UU, which is still a good attacking unit. Upgrade our units, starting with elephants.
I am not sure do we need to upgrade UU; it is not that bad by itself.

WE should be ready to attack soon. I would take Masta us voluntary vassal, so we can do oversea invasion ASNP.

USE power of rush buy fully, do not do like warm. Think about all effects on our civ and our competitors and plan to make a best use of all our power.

 

[Mutineer]

I look on save and I am greatly dissapointed.
Jet, you played in typical wrong CE fasion and again complitly forgot about our variant.
We are tech leaders anyway, what is the point to waster research instad of improving infrustructure?

I think we have big enoght army, in 1 turn we can revolt to Theocracy and start mil build everywhere.
Fron this moment we need to upgrade our army, accept Masta as vassal and declare on Brenus.

I am pretty tempted to play alternative set, as this set went agains our varian and did not demonstrated power of variant. All game we prepare for this turn set and it fassle.

roster
Mutineer
ungy
Swiss Pauli
Jet
GrayFox - up now

 

[GreyFox]

It's a manner of different style I guess ... if Jet made so many mistakes by your book, I would've fared far worst. Why don't you play the alternate set and let us see what's the difference, Muntineer? That way we can all learn. Afterall the whole point of SG is to learn from each other's mistake.

On an entirely different topic, I have a question. Did Ungy get to play this set? I thought he is back from OoP.

--

 

[Mutineer]

I believe he is going to come back today. we skeep him last time, so it's ok.

Play your turn.

It is not matter of alternative stile, it is matter of variant. We are doing Rush buy variant, not research everything ASAP and build best unts useal CE gameplay.

 

[Mutineer]

OK, here I quickly played to same amount of turns.

I probably should had allready change to military build 1-2 turns ago.
I did not research anyhting, but because of how many tech we had on other civs I traded for chemistry and mil trad.

Difference in not very visible in turms of gold/turn or research turn on ballance right now, but I have mach more infrustructure build and ready for city grow and next time we need to switch research on.

His main mistake was to research MIl tradition wasting money from GM, insted of building infrustructure. Continue to use castle system, insted of Emancipation.

 

[ungy]

OK I'm back and had a chance to look at saves.

At the risk of jumping in having missed a lot my take is as follows:

We had decided that we were going for domination and that plan was to take MM as vassal and take out Brennus followed by overseas invasion. So question was whether to gold plate our cities with buildings or hurry and rush with less but have a longer window before rifles. I have limited experience with this because if you can get an army of cav before the AI has rifles then the game was already won (as this is), and I don't play those out.

Looking at the 1390 save I would agree with Mutineer and I think it is consistent with the intent of the game, but does not seem totally clearcut to me.

At 1390 when the decision was made to research Mil Trad, no AI has it. So I don't think it is really fair to replay the set and trade for it.

BTW as for running caste or building theatre to get culture--not necessary as we can build culture directly.

I can play whenever, but think whoever plays we should get on the same page before the set is played.

 

[ungy]

I am pretty tempted to play alternative set, as this set went agains our varian and did not demonstrated power of variant. All game we prepare for this turn set and it fassle.

I don't think with this much land we are demonstrating the power of the variant, just that we have such strong position that nerfing it with the variant still wins easily.