Pre-FC/CrezNES Thread: 1836

[ChiefDesigner]

The 2000 unfamilied men you sent towards Californa are still somewhere around Arizona. They still have to cross the Rocky mountains, in December, January.

Please note that the Declaration will be signed in October of 1837, and that the early posting was done as a courtesy.

You are welcome to believe whatever you would like about the facts on the ground. That said, I believe you are being optimistic when you instantly teleport 50,000 refugees into California, when both the overland trip and the voyage around Cape Horn are dangerous and time-consuming.

Furthermore, I think you're making unwarranted assumptions about the pattern of settlement in Mexico; what incentive is there for anyone to move to California, when there is nothing there? Is the Mexican government forcibly resettling these refugees? Because if not, I expect historical patterns of settlement to persist -- are you *really* tackling the hacienda system?

Additionally, the entirety of your rhetoric is false. None of the things you described actually happened.
1) The provinces continue to hold substantial power and are protected under the Constitution of 1924.
2) We are a republic, not a military dictatorship. This was a hard-fought victory for us and one we are not eager to give it up so away quickly.
3) You can rest assured that the interests of much more than the military and Catholic Church are represented in our government.

...which implies that the Conservatives, who desire a unitary military dictatorship, should be waiting for any excuse to topple Santa Ana, yes? Especially since Santa Ana aligned himself with said Conservatives in 1835, when he toppled Gomez Farias, and backstabbed the Conservatives to reimplement democracy?

 

[TheLastJacobite]

I'm a little confused as to how the player for Texas can declare independence for California and northern Mexico

 

[Immaculate]

Chiefdesigner,

You aren't the person who should be analyzing my nation OOC. Crezth/FC are. IC, launch all the rhetoric you want- with the understanding that its rhetoric and the 'truth' is a matter of perspective/salesmanship. OOC, you have no idea what is in my orders, nor should you presume to. Nor should you presume to state that elements of my government or nation will act in a particular way, especially when the update would agrue precisely the opposite. Ultimately, your nose doesn't belong in my OOC business- you aren't writing my orders; i am. If you have a problem with the way i am playing Mexico, or if you feel something isn't properly represented, PM Crezth/FC directly.

EDIT: Rereading that, it seemed a bit snarky. The reason i don't like having an OOC conversation about my nation with you is because to properly defend my points, i have to reveal my orders, private conversations with Crezth, etc, all things that i don't want to share with my adversaries or in public generally. So basically, its a conversation i can't have- if i want to make a point, i have to reveal my secrets - and obviously thats not going to happen.

Thelastjacobite,

I feel the same way.

Crezth/FC,

I look forward to hearing from you regarding the validity of Chiefdesigner's IC declarations. Who ARE these people specifically making these declarations?

 

[ChiefDesigner]

Ah, edits. Revising now.

----

I understand your concerns, and I believe you have been taking the appropriate in-game actions. I have already discussed my concerns with Crezth and fc; I'll respect your wishes.

 

[Crezth]

Two things: one, we should consider these declarations to be provided by the Texas ex-pats, and sympathetic parties throughout north Mexico, as a post-hoc justification for what's basically an act of war; and two, that the Spanish refugees are unlikely to have made any good progress on getting to California or north Mexico yet; and now that there is a rebellion of Texan fifth columnites, unlikely to finish the journey.

 

[Immaculate]

What sympathetic parties in north mexico? please respond by PM or on #NES.

EDIT: Can i ammend my orders?

 

[Crezth]

Of course you may amend your orders.

 

[Masada]

I just assumed it was a filibuster carried out by some Texans looking to capitalise on Mexico's weakness. It did just surrender to a bunch of Anglo farmers... There are also going to be some Mexican regional elites involved looking to slip the noose. But I don't know how significant those are.

 

[das]

...Bah. Had Internet problems earlier and doctor problems now. NPC me for the turn, please, and do nothing drastic. Keep Portales alive at all costs. Chile will persevere.

 

[Crezth]

Since so many orders are late, don't worry too much. If you can get them in over the weekend there's a good chance I'll implement them.

 

[Terrance888]

Thank you! I've been having health problems all week. I have my orders outlined, just not detailed (with merely lackluster research too.)

 

[Symphony D.]

What sympathetic parties in north mexico?

 

[Grandkhan]

So who else made the super super super obvious linkage between a post warning Peru to stop trying to get European parties involved in South America and the Two-Sicilies sending a fleet to the other side of the world to blockade Bolivia at Peru's instigation? Nobody, I thought as much.

Wait what?

When did that happen?

 

[Masada]

I was being sarcastic.

 

[Gem Hound]

Wait what?

When did that happen?

It didn't.

 

[ChiefDesigner]

Remember the distinction between OOC and IC. There really is no way for you to know about what went on in my story. Acting on it just makes your leadership look crazy. Remember, right now, Santa Anna is beloved by the people, he is the father of their liberation from tyranny and from Spain, and the champion of their faith. His popular support has never been higher. Attacking him like this is counter-productive to your cause- as well as being OOC driven.

Really? You're claiming that the location and actions of the President of the Republic are of interest to no one? You're suggesting that the President managed to slip out of the capital, unseen, unfollowed, to go on a vision quest, when Congress is waiting for him to sign keystone legislation that will forever crush the liberals? And that when Santa Ana returns to the capital, having effectively vetoed the Seven Laws, that nobody asks him why?

Seriously, this is Appalachian Trail levels of shenanigans.

 

[Immaculate]

His Holiness prays to God for a peaceful resolution to the situation in Mexico, that the Mexican people can be spared the bitter fruit of civil strife. Don't appeal to the Holy Church for legitimacy: God is on the side of the peacemaker.

Really? In a contest between protestant Tejan rebels and Catholic Mexico, specifically led by a conservative who has sided again and again with the Holy Church and reaffirmed the role of the Catholic Church in Mexican society, the Holy See declares neutrality? Remember also that Mexico was the peace-maker, granted the Tejan people their wishes in the Treaty Of San Antonio and that the Tejans tore up that treaty when they sent military units disguised as immigrants into California as a fifth column and sent infiltrators, spies, and saboteurs into Northern Mexico to destabilize the region.

Indeed, Mexico is very surprised by the position of the papacy vis-à-vis this conflict.

There will be no IC response to the papacy because, frankly, we are so surprised by it that we don’t know how to respond.

 

[Immaculate]

Really? You're claiming that the location and actions of the President of the Republic are of interest to no one? You're suggesting that the President managed to slip out of the capital, unseen, unfollowed, to go on a vision quest, when Congress is waiting for him to sign keystone legislation that will forever crush the liberals? And that when Santa Ana returns to the capital, having effectively vetoed the Seven Laws, that nobody asks him why?

Seriously, this is Appalachian Trail levels of shenanigans.

Its a story man.

 

[Shadowbound]

Believe it or not, that was solely directed at the Northerners. If you feel guilty about your actions, and want to repent for unspecified acts of liberalism and/or paganism, though, feel free to talk to your local priest.

 

[Immaculate]

Believe it or not, that was solely directed at the Northerners. If you feel guilty about your actions, and want to repent for unspecified acts of liberalism and/or paganism, though, feel free to talk to your local priest.

Oh... then good thing i didn't say anything IC.


One final note...

I'm going to wait for the update before i engage any further on this issue; its tiresome and I feel i am monopolizing the thread.