Pre-SysNES2: Beta-testing and Submission
- Thread starter Disenfrancised
- Start date
Ok: Heres a particle fleet that kicks my Missile fleets ass T3 with Con 4
Fighters:
Coilgun Interceptor
4 x Deuterium Drive (REF)
3 x Pulse Drive
6 x Coilgun (REF)
1 x Barrel Casings
1 x Carbon Armour
Command
4 x Pellet Fusion Core
2 x Deuterium Drive (REF)
1 x Command Deck
1 x Command Staff
1 x Computer Module
1 x Commlinks
1 x Scanners
5 x Jammers (REF)
1 x Radiators
15 x Coilgun (REF)
1 x Barrel Casings
1 x Gas Rockets
Stuff that dies quick:
Carrier
4 x Manifold
1 x Deuterium Drive (REF)
2 x Pellet Fusion Core
1 x Light Sail
13 x Internal Hangers
1 x Gas Rockets
Supply
7 x Burst Drive
2 x Fission Rocket
1 x Habitat Section
1 x Supply Section
This requires that 100 e from fleet costs is shifted over to refinement costs but for the remaining 500e you can refine the coilgun interceptor get 3 of them and 1 of everything else.
Also made a Ion Jet ship based on the same design, so this all works really nice!
Fighters:
Coilgun Interceptor
4 x Deuterium Drive (REF)
3 x Pulse Drive
6 x Coilgun (REF)
1 x Barrel Casings
1 x Carbon Armour
Command
4 x Pellet Fusion Core
2 x Deuterium Drive (REF)
1 x Command Deck
1 x Command Staff
1 x Computer Module
1 x Commlinks
1 x Scanners
5 x Jammers (REF)
1 x Radiators
15 x Coilgun (REF)
1 x Barrel Casings
1 x Gas Rockets
Stuff that dies quick:
Carrier
4 x Manifold
1 x Deuterium Drive (REF)
2 x Pellet Fusion Core
1 x Light Sail
13 x Internal Hangers
1 x Gas Rockets
Supply
7 x Burst Drive
2 x Fission Rocket
1 x Habitat Section
1 x Supply Section
This requires that 100 e from fleet costs is shifted over to refinement costs but for the remaining 500e you can refine the coilgun interceptor get 3 of them and 1 of everything else.
Also made a Ion Jet ship based on the same design, so this all works really nice!
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Carrier needs an IS drive and I'm not sure why the supply ship has them.
But, cool.
But, cool.
Doy!
fix'd less coilgun ships but still, an effective fleet. The supply ship has the jump capability so it can jump somewhere else in the system so it doesn't get shot to pieces...
Symphony D.
Deity
Possibly G16 will be a more efficient version of it.
Sometimes you just need a change of perspective...
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
One important thing to note with Charm Drives is their effectiveness is linearly related to Maths Tech. In fact the exact formula for the IS they put out is 2.5*[#Computers]*[Maths Tech]. I may make it non-linearly related to the maths and number of computers though...
Symphony D.
Deity
AGGRESSOR FLEET MIDWAY
Piggybacking off Kal's Particle fleet, with some twists, Midway uses Charm Drives to dispense with needing a carrier, allowing it to bring far more guns to bear.
T3, CON4, NRG4, Advancer, Poor Safety:
---
Thunderbolt class Attack Corvette
1 Charm Drive
5 Deuterium Drive (Refined)
1 Pulse Drive
1 Gas Vents
1 Mag Catapult
Cost: 45e (20e) / 6m / 45v / 0a / 0t / 21s
Size: 33 / Mass: 17 / IS: 0 (1) / IP: 7
Range: 0 (2) / Power: 0 / Heat: -5
Init: 2 (10) / Dodge: 6 / Avoid: 0 / Armor: 3 / Shield: 1
Refine: 61e / 15s
Catapult Total Damage: 8
---
Warhawk class Strike Corvette
1 Charm Drive
5 Deuterium Drive (Refined)
3 Pulse Drive
1 Gas Vents
6 Coilguns (Refined)
1 Barrel Casings
Cost: 82e (37e) / 23m / 55v / 0a / 0t / 34s
Size: 38 / Mass: 24 / IS: 0 (1) / IP: 7
Range: 0 (2) / Power: 0 / Heat: -5
Init: 2 (10) / Dodge: 6 / Avoid: 5 / Armor: 2 / Shield: 1
Refine: 117e / 29s
Projectile Gun Total Damage: 12
Extra Ammo: 1
---
Hornet class Support Frigate
1 Charm Drive
4 DHe Fusion Core
4 Deuterium Drive (Refined)
1 Recyclers
1 Hibernation Pods
1 Supply Section
1 Command Deck
1 Command Staff
11 Computer Module
1 Commlinks
1 Scanners
4 Jammers
1 EW Broadcasters
1 Salt Sinks
1 Gas Vents
8 Carbon Armor
1 Heavy Cladding
Cost: 231e (104e) / 50m / 104v / 0a / 4t / 82s
Size: 77 / Mass: 77 / IS: 1 / IP: 1
Range: 2 / Power: 1 / Heat: -4
Init: 11 (19) / Dodge: -20 / Avoid: 0 / Armor: 19 / Shield: 1
Refine: 383e / 96s
Init Bonus to Fleet: 8
EW Score: 11
EW Vulnerability: 80
Jammer Int Debuff: 4
---
The Hornet chills out across the star system far away from danger providing Fleet Init and allowing for tactical jumps. The Thunderbolts can take shots at range or get into knife-fights with their big guns and rip through armor, while the Warhawks chew through defenses. Both are almost equally hard to kill.
It takes both a strong Dodge and a strong Init to avoid getting hit by these guns regularly at close range, and the best that can be reasonably managed is probably a reduction to around 40% (14 Init, 7 Dodge). It would be possible to rotate out a few of either design for Ion Cannon designs to mix up damage more, as well. The only really good hard counter seems to be shields on a laser fleet, and once you get to T4 you can build some Sapper-equipped EW Corvettes to counter.
This is the first Charm Drive fleet I've been fairly pleased with. Its v cost is very high, but everything else is quite low, making it managable, and it's hard to argue with the performance stats. If you can in-system jump as Kal posits, the flexibility of this is tremendous, as the Corvettes have the IP to get away and make tactical jumps almost at will.
---
The Stats page is ridiculously useful, don't get rid of it.
Piggybacking off Kal's Particle fleet, with some twists, Midway uses Charm Drives to dispense with needing a carrier, allowing it to bring far more guns to bear.
T3, CON4, NRG4, Advancer, Poor Safety:
---
Thunderbolt class Attack Corvette
1 Charm Drive
5 Deuterium Drive (Refined)
1 Pulse Drive
1 Gas Vents
1 Mag Catapult
Cost: 45e (20e) / 6m / 45v / 0a / 0t / 21s
Size: 33 / Mass: 17 / IS: 0 (1) / IP: 7
Range: 0 (2) / Power: 0 / Heat: -5
Init: 2 (10) / Dodge: 6 / Avoid: 0 / Armor: 3 / Shield: 1
Refine: 61e / 15s
Catapult Total Damage: 8
---
Warhawk class Strike Corvette
1 Charm Drive
5 Deuterium Drive (Refined)
3 Pulse Drive
1 Gas Vents
6 Coilguns (Refined)
1 Barrel Casings
Cost: 82e (37e) / 23m / 55v / 0a / 0t / 34s
Size: 38 / Mass: 24 / IS: 0 (1) / IP: 7
Range: 0 (2) / Power: 0 / Heat: -5
Init: 2 (10) / Dodge: 6 / Avoid: 5 / Armor: 2 / Shield: 1
Refine: 117e / 29s
Projectile Gun Total Damage: 12
Extra Ammo: 1
---
Hornet class Support Frigate
1 Charm Drive
4 DHe Fusion Core
4 Deuterium Drive (Refined)
1 Recyclers
1 Hibernation Pods
1 Supply Section
1 Command Deck
1 Command Staff
11 Computer Module
1 Commlinks
1 Scanners
4 Jammers
1 EW Broadcasters
1 Salt Sinks
1 Gas Vents
8 Carbon Armor
1 Heavy Cladding
Cost: 231e (104e) / 50m / 104v / 0a / 4t / 82s
Size: 77 / Mass: 77 / IS: 1 / IP: 1
Range: 2 / Power: 1 / Heat: -4
Init: 11 (19) / Dodge: -20 / Avoid: 0 / Armor: 19 / Shield: 1
Refine: 383e / 96s
Init Bonus to Fleet: 8
EW Score: 11
EW Vulnerability: 80
Jammer Int Debuff: 4
---
Code:
[b]AGGRESSOR FLEET MIDWAY[/b]
[b][u]
NAME PRICE # COST[/b][/u]
[i]Thunderbolt[/i] class (Ref.) 020e 7x 140e
[i]Warhawk[/i] class (Ref.) 037e 6x 222e
[i]Hornet[/i] class 231e 1x 231e
[b]TOTAL 593/600e[/b]
[b]Other Costs:[/b] 230m / 749v / 0a / 4t / 137s
[b]Refinement Costs:[/b] 878e / 244sIt takes both a strong Dodge and a strong Init to avoid getting hit by these guns regularly at close range, and the best that can be reasonably managed is probably a reduction to around 40% (14 Init, 7 Dodge). It would be possible to rotate out a few of either design for Ion Cannon designs to mix up damage more, as well. The only really good hard counter seems to be shields on a laser fleet, and once you get to T4 you can build some Sapper-equipped EW Corvettes to counter.
This is the first Charm Drive fleet I've been fairly pleased with. Its v cost is very high, but everything else is quite low, making it managable, and it's hard to argue with the performance stats. If you can in-system jump as Kal posits, the flexibility of this is tremendous, as the Corvettes have the IP to get away and make tactical jumps almost at will.
---
The Stats page is ridiculously useful, don't get rid of it.
Symphony D.
Deity
AGGRESSOR FLEET MIDWAY-C
Midway-C is the cheaper-v version of Midway, sacrificing survivability in favor of cost.
T3, CON4, NRG4, Advancer, Poor Safety:
---
Thunderbolt-C class Attack Corvette
1 Charm Drive
5 Deuterium Drive (Refined)
1 Pulse Drive
1 Radiators
1 Mag Catapult
Cost: 43e (19e) / 8m / 12v / 0a / 0t / 20s
Size: 33 / Mass: 17 / IS: 0 (1) / IP: 7
Range: 0 (2) / Power: 0 / Heat: -1
Init: 2 (10) / Dodge: 6 / Avoid: 0 / Armor: -7 / Shield: 0
Refine: 57e / 14s
Catapult Total Damage: 8
---
Warhawk-C class Strike Corvette
1 Charm Drive
5 Deuterium Drive (Refined)
3 Pulse Drive
1 Radiators
6 Coilguns (Refined)
1 Barrel Casings
Cost: 81e (36e) / 25m / 17v / 0a / 0t / 34s
Size: 38 / Mass: 24 / IS: 0 (1) / IP: 7
Range: 0 (2) / Power: 0 / Heat: -1
Init: 2 (10) / Dodge: 6 / Avoid: 5 / Armor: -8 / Shield: 0
Refine: 117e / 29s
Projectile Gun Total Damage: 12
Extra Ammo: 1
---
Hornet class Support Frigate
1 Charm Drive
4 DHe Fusion Core
4 Deuterium Drive (Refined)
1 Recyclers
1 Hibernation Pods
1 Supply Section
1 Command Deck
1 Command Staff
11 Computer Module
1 Commlinks
1 Scanners
4 Jammers
1 EW Broadcasters
1 Salt Sinks
1 Gas Vents
8 Carbon Armor
1 Heavy Cladding
Cost: 231e (104e) / 50m / 104v / 0a / 4t / 82s
Size: 77 / Mass: 77 / IS: 1 / IP: 1
Range: 2 / Power: 1 / Heat: -4
Init: 11 (19) / Dodge: -20 / Avoid: 0 / Armor: 19 / Shield: 1
Refine: 383e / 96s
Init Bonus to Fleet: 8
EW Score: 11
EW Vulnerability: 80
Jammer Int Debuff: 4
---
Midway-C fields an extra Thunderbolt variant due to modestly declining costs, although every individual ship is easier to kill if hit. v-cost is approximately 2/5 as much as Midway.
Midway-C is the cheaper-v version of Midway, sacrificing survivability in favor of cost.
T3, CON4, NRG4, Advancer, Poor Safety:
---
Thunderbolt-C class Attack Corvette
1 Charm Drive
5 Deuterium Drive (Refined)
1 Pulse Drive
1 Radiators
1 Mag Catapult
Cost: 43e (19e) / 8m / 12v / 0a / 0t / 20s
Size: 33 / Mass: 17 / IS: 0 (1) / IP: 7
Range: 0 (2) / Power: 0 / Heat: -1
Init: 2 (10) / Dodge: 6 / Avoid: 0 / Armor: -7 / Shield: 0
Refine: 57e / 14s
Catapult Total Damage: 8
---
Warhawk-C class Strike Corvette
1 Charm Drive
5 Deuterium Drive (Refined)
3 Pulse Drive
1 Radiators
6 Coilguns (Refined)
1 Barrel Casings
Cost: 81e (36e) / 25m / 17v / 0a / 0t / 34s
Size: 38 / Mass: 24 / IS: 0 (1) / IP: 7
Range: 0 (2) / Power: 0 / Heat: -1
Init: 2 (10) / Dodge: 6 / Avoid: 5 / Armor: -8 / Shield: 0
Refine: 117e / 29s
Projectile Gun Total Damage: 12
Extra Ammo: 1
---
Hornet class Support Frigate
1 Charm Drive
4 DHe Fusion Core
4 Deuterium Drive (Refined)
1 Recyclers
1 Hibernation Pods
1 Supply Section
1 Command Deck
1 Command Staff
11 Computer Module
1 Commlinks
1 Scanners
4 Jammers
1 EW Broadcasters
1 Salt Sinks
1 Gas Vents
8 Carbon Armor
1 Heavy Cladding
Cost: 231e (104e) / 50m / 104v / 0a / 4t / 82s
Size: 77 / Mass: 77 / IS: 1 / IP: 1
Range: 2 / Power: 1 / Heat: -4
Init: 11 (19) / Dodge: -20 / Avoid: 0 / Armor: 19 / Shield: 1
Refine: 383e / 96s
Init Bonus to Fleet: 8
EW Score: 11
EW Vulnerability: 80
Jammer Int Debuff: 4
---
Code:
[b]AGGRESSOR FLEET MIDWAY-C[/b]
[b][u]
NAME PRICE # COST[/b][/u]
[i]Thunderbolt-C[/i] class (Ref.) 019e 8x 152e
[i]Warhawk-C[/i] class (Ref.) 036e 6x 216e
[i]Hornet[/i] class 231e 1x 231e
[b]TOTAL 599/600e[/b]
[b]Other Costs:[/b] 264m / 302v / 0a / 4t / 136s
[b]Refinement Costs:[/b] 874e / 243sSymphony D.
Deity
I haven't figured out what to do with these yet, but they're bulkier versions of the Thunderbolt to get up to 8 IP, if you need an IS-capable interceptor:
1 Charm Drive
7 Deuterium Drive (Refined)
4 Pulse Drive
1 Radiators
1 Mag Catapult
3 Carbon Armor
IP: 8 / Dodge: 6 / Armor: -9 / Cost: 65e (29e) / 15m / 23v
---
Its v-powered brother costs almost the same and is somewhat more ridiculous:
1 Charm Drive
7 Deuterium Drive (Refined)
4 Pulse Drive
1 Gas Vents
1 Mag Catapult
3 Carbon Armor
IP: 8 / Dodge: 6 / Armor: 1 / Cost: 67e (30e) / 13m / 77v
---
Boils down to whether you want the survivability or the cost.
1 Charm Drive
7 Deuterium Drive (Refined)
4 Pulse Drive
1 Radiators
1 Mag Catapult
3 Carbon Armor
IP: 8 / Dodge: 6 / Armor: -9 / Cost: 65e (29e) / 15m / 23v
---
Its v-powered brother costs almost the same and is somewhat more ridiculous:
1 Charm Drive
7 Deuterium Drive (Refined)
4 Pulse Drive
1 Gas Vents
1 Mag Catapult
3 Carbon Armor
IP: 8 / Dodge: 6 / Armor: 1 / Cost: 67e (30e) / 13m / 77v
---
Boils down to whether you want the survivability or the cost.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Long story short: People that want excellent particle fleets should have excellent volatiles-mining operations. 
Symphony D.
Deity
You can almost Refine this (136e or so) under Midway/C while hovering around the 1000e limit, and field them at 42e or so each:
1 Charm Drive
5 Deuterium Drive (Refined)
3 Pulse Drive
1 Gas Vents/Radiators
2 Ion Cannons
7 IP / 6 Dodge like the others. Rotate out some of the other designs and fit it in to do interesting things to people's Init scores.
1 Charm Drive
5 Deuterium Drive (Refined)
3 Pulse Drive
1 Gas Vents/Radiators
2 Ion Cannons
7 IP / 6 Dodge like the others. Rotate out some of the other designs and fit it in to do interesting things to people's Init scores.
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
Long story short: People that want excellent particle fleets should have excellent volatiles-mining operations.
Well the huge v cost of SymD's first fleet is mainly due to Gas Vents, and the leveraging having absurd v into better performance is kind of the point of Gas Vents. A laser fleet with gas vents would also require a lot of v.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Are Maneuvering Jets broken? They don't seem to be applying Dodge anymore. Unsure about Gas Rockets, too.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Right. I thought they'd do something at T3 but I guess not. They seem awfully ineffective even at T5, though. Gas Rockets don't seem to do anything at all on large ships even at T5.
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
Even with T3 Manoeuvring Jets will be providing +2 to the raw dodge. However actual dodge is a non-linear function based on ship size and mass, and it might be that the very poor dodge of a large ship is hardly being budged by the addition of the Jets. With smaller ships you'll see a bigger difference.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
So, is there any way to boost the dodge of large ships? Plasma sails I guess...
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
Not really - poor dodge is something large ships really should have. I guess if you really pack on the pulse drives it might not be too bad.
TerrisH
Mischief?
is there a guied or explanation on how to use the ship calculator? I.. wish to toy around with it and check something.
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