Presenteeism: Encouraging Sick Workers to Come in

[Zelig]

As for the OP, if you want to stop abuse of sick days then the whole system needs to be revamped. Who wouldn't take a day off WITH FULL PAY? Sure, some people would if the really have a sense of pride in their work, but most people won't. I think one possible solution would be to make 'sick days' be only 50% pay.

I haven't taken a single one of my 130 sick days off since starting at my job a year ago.

I propose that anyone not as awesome and honest as me be unemployed.

 

[Bamspeedy]

I haven't taken a single one of my 130 sick days off since starting at my job a year ago.

I propose that anyone not as awesome and honest as me be unemployed.

So then everyone who IS employed gets useless stuff they don't need like 130 sick days.

 

[Mise]

I was "sick" twice last year, on Jan 25th and Aug 25th. I was sick twice in 2010 and "sick" once. I wasn't sick in 2009 or 2008, and was sick once in 2007. I don't really suffer from colds or anything.

The idea that you need a doctor's note for a cold is ********.

 

[Silurian]

The idea that you need a doctor's note for a cold is ********.

Yes it just spreads the cold around.

Seven days self certification of sickness, as in the UK, seems about right. A doctor can not treat many short term illnesses than you can yourself.

If you are having lots of short illnesses the company can still ask why and ask you to see a company doctor.

 

[warpus]

So the typical adult is supposed to take 2-5 weeks off per year for the common cold?

If you're coughing, sneezing, etc. you should stay home. Otherwise you'd be spreading germs at work.

 

[mrt144]

A "doctor's note" was always demanded when I called out sick. Yet, I never produced one and none of my employers ever made a fuss about it.

You don't go to a doctor when you have a sinus infection or stomach virus and my doctor's office was closed every other day including the weekend. If my employers want to foot the bill for an ER visit then I'd be happy to produce a doctor's note.

But I'm not 12 years old. I'm an adult. If you can't take my word for it then why'd you hire me in the first place?

The funny thing is, if you had to go to the doctor every time you called in sick for proof, the entire company's insurance rates would go through the roof.

 

[mrt144]

I think I've taken a grand total of 4 sick days in 4.5 years of employment and taken 31 vacation days.

 

[Quintillus]

I think it's preferable to have a few people game the system than to have everyone coming in sick, infecting the company, and making everyone miserable and unproductive, and ultimately making some of them seriously ill.

My company gives 6 sick days per year, at full pay, which accumulate up to infinity days if you've been there long enough. Short-term disability is optional, but if you have it it kicks in after either two weeks or 45 days of being sick (consecutively), at 70% or so pay, and lasts until 90 days, at which long-term disability (optional, but highly encouraged) kicks in. It's something like 60% pay, and lasts until you're better. You don't need a note to use regular sick days, but I suspect you probably do for the disability options. If you had accumulated 130 sick days over many years and tried to use them all at once, they'd probably get suspicious after awhile and ask for a note, too.

It's not a perfect system - you could potentially run out of sick days and be in a lurch if short-term didn't kick in yet. Some people might try to come in then, but unpaid time would be an option. I'm decent enough at saving some money that I'd go the latter route, and since there doesn't seem to be a problem with sick people at work, it looks like most others do, too. You could also have a problem with high-tenure people with lots of sick days suddenly becoming much less healthy, but most people who haven't switched jobs after that long are fairly mentally invested in the company. Some people might game the system a bit, but overall it doesn't seem to be a problem.

Sick time can also be used for longer doctor's appointments (shorter ones don't require sick time), or for ill family members. The largest category of sick time might actually be parents taking time off so they can be with ill children.

So what would I change? Maybe make sick time count as half as much with a note, so those who get unlucky with illness in their first few years don't get burned. But I think the system works pretty well.

I haven't taken any sick days so far, and am usually fairly healthy. But I'm sure I'll have to take some at some point in the future.

 

[downtown]

I think 95% of the time, policies encouraging employees to come in while they are sick is a bad idea...especially if the employer provides health benefits. Even kinda sick employees can be contagious, and their own personal productivity would be poor. If possible, these employees should work from home. If not, a reasonable number of paid sick days should be provided, followed by unpaid sick days.

I get 6 a year. They don't roll over, and I can only "cash in" 2 a year (if they are unused at the end of the year, I am paid a day's wages for them). Allowing a limited number of cash ins can prevent abuse.

A doctors note for a cold is very stupid. If my boss did that, i would expect for her to pay for the doctor's visit.

 

[warpus]

I think it's preferable to have a few people game the system than to have everyone coming in sick, infecting the company, and making everyone miserable and unproductive, and ultimately making some of them seriously ill.

Would that many people really game the system? I haven't heard of anyone doing that here. Most people actually do the opposite - they don't take too many sick days and end up not taking their vacation time. What ends up happening is that they accrue so many vacation days that their boss has to FORCE them to take off Fridays for a couple months That happened to my friend once - he had 50+ vacation days saved up. The official rule is that you can't have more than 40, but.. People go over all the time.

It's kinda opposite of what you'd expect, really

 

[Defiant47]

Yeah, I'm the kind that begs my boss to let me keep accumulating flex time and vacation days so that I can keep doing my work (along with extra projects). I laugh at the "allowed sick days" that I have. And of course, my boss being an awesome person, tries very hard to encourage me to take some days off.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Would that many people really game the system?

I think that really depends on the work atmosphere.

Not as likely to abuse sick days:

-Workers who negotiate their salary and benefits themselves. The opposite of me whose pay is set to the same as everyone else (with the same seniority), regardless of how I perform.

-Those trying to get promotions. I have no desire to get into management.

-Those who don't have a replacement for their job (there will just be double the work for me when I get back). For my job, someone else will do my job while I'm gone and there won't be extra work to catch up on when I do get back.

-Those who can cash them out or carry them over to next year. "Use it or lose it" is motivation to use it.

-Those who are working on an important project or invention that will have their name on the work. Kind of goes along with trying to get a promotion. Doesn't apply to me.

-Those that really love their work or have alot fun at work (working is more enjoyable than staying at home). With the right kind of office co-workers I could see as being more fun to work with than doing manual labor.
But even at my job we have one guy who probably doesn't use his vacation (work there long enough you get 3 weeks, you can cash out 2 of those weeks, but everybody has 1 week that is "use it or lose it"). He's always working overtime plus he has another job, so his home life is probably non-existant.

Of course this is all generalizing, I don't want to hear from people saying "none of those describe me and I don't abuse sick days" or "all or some of those describe me and I DO abuse sick days".

 

[rollo1066]

I work for the US government. I get 4hr per biweekly pay period sick leave. This would be 13 days per year. I only take a few full days off per year on average because of sickness (I'm in general pretty healthy). However because of Dr. appointments for myself (I have diabetes) and my father (age 88) my sick leave balance has been declining and might reach 0 before I retire. Then I would have to use annual leave (what most would call vacation). We usually don't have to produce a Dr. note but it could be requested if out over 3 days or if management thinks an employee is doing something like being sick on every Monday.

 

[HannibalBarka]

Oh my god. I have sick leaves very often. I was out for 3 weeks last november because of a pneumonia. In a "regular" year I have 5 to 6 sick days. In France you are usually required to ahve a Dr note for that because there is really no officiel sick days. But it depends from a company to another. I usually just call my assistant.
We also have "kids sick" day, and since i have three young kids, I also take an additionel 5 to 6 sick kids days. I do however work from home when i really need to.

 

[mrt144]

I think that really depends on the work atmosphere.

Not as likely to abuse sick days:

-Workers who negotiate their salary and benefits themselves. The opposite of me whose pay is set to the same as everyone else (with the same seniority), regardless of how I perform.

-Those trying to get promotions. I have no desire to get into management.

-Those who don't have a replacement for their job (there will just be double the work for me when I get back). For my job, someone else will do my job while I'm gone and there won't be extra work to catch up on when I do get back.

-Those who can cash them out or carry them over to next year. "Use it or lose it" is motivation to use it.

-Those who are working on an important project or invention that will have their name on the work. Kind of goes along with trying to get a promotion. Doesn't apply to me.

-Those that really love their work or have alot fun at work (working is more enjoyable than staying at home). With the right kind of office co-workers I could see as being more fun to work with than doing manual labor.
But even at my job we have one guy who probably doesn't use his vacation (work there long enough you get 3 weeks, you can cash out 2 of those weeks, but everybody has 1 week that is "use it or lose it"). He's always working overtime plus he has another job, so his home life is probably non-existant.

Of course this is all generalizing, I don't want to hear from people saying "none of those describe me and I don't abuse sick days" or "all or some of those describe me and I DO abuse sick days".

I think it is pretty good generalization of who wouldn't abuse sick days, at least solely looking at their job.

Outside of work I'd say people with substance abuse problems are the most likely to abuse them. I've seen some people do this because they party too hard all the time.