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PreSLNES I: Masters of Ethereal

How would having one hundred dragon riders be underpowered? Notice the Beastmen have non-combat mounts so that's a pretty strange centaur. Netheryl is the polar opposite of magic. Halflings would become immune to the dark elves advantage, though it is fairly pricey. High men gives you powerful infantry and cavalry. Notice all combat cavalry are discounted and heavy armour for all infantry is discounted. Heavy infantry hold the line while cavalry flank is a standard battle model used for hundreds of years, because it worked. Dwarves are perfect for defending their mountain homes, were large weapons are impractical. Able to penetrate armour with ease, whilst being heavily armoured themselves. Dark elves is quite strong so one would have to rely on the dark elven players not metagaming but one hundred elves with magic would fall beneath ten thousand goblins with their 'crappy' equipment. Also magic, unless done very creatively, is not necessarily the be all and end all. Finally all dark elven units cost 20 mana to recruit and 10 mana to maintain. That would add up to a huge sum of mana per turn to have a decent-sized army. Barbarians are armour busters who would die instantly in a cavalry charge.

In short be more creative; play with the advantages you have. Trust other players and the mod to not metagame and prevent metagaming.

Damn straight and finely said.

By the way, the reason Centaurs get noncombatant, is because I imagine those Beastmen to know the land moreso than use their mounted "state" as an attack force. Again, something for players to... oh I don't know... play with.
 
This isn't Warhammer or something.

Ah, I remember a Warhammer NES. I was the France expy, and somone was the Germany expy. Thy had steampunk Tanks and extremely modern (For a Mideval/Rennisance game) army. All of my units execpt one were unprofessional soldiers. Good Times. :lol:
 
Warhammer NES. Interesting. :D

But seriously. If someone here thinks Dark Elves are so incredibly uberpowerful because of their magic ability, then by all means - play as Dark Elves. You'll see that things aren't as easy as you might think, and perhaps you'll see that the imagination of players is far more important than the amount of gold discounted from units. Use your skills in ways that aren't entirely obvious. That's the point, isn't it? To use traits and skills in combos that will benefit what you order your units to do.
 
Gwydion / LDiCesare
Race: Barbarian
Citadel: Gwynedd
Government: Tribalism. Gwydion is the leader of tribes. Each tribe has a tribe leader and is made of clans. Each clan has a clan leader and is made of families. Barbarians tend to try to settle quarrels inside their family, then clan. Between clans inside a tribe, the tribe leader may be contacted. Between tribes, they may ask for Gwydion to rule about the matter. Or the stronger party may smash the weaker one, but Gwydion dislikes unnecessary deaths or maimings (don't bother him for a mere beating).
Spellbook:
Spoiler :

Name: Made of flowers
Type: Summons
Range: 0-100km from province borders (30 mana)
Hit: Direct Hit (50 mana)
Power: Wondrous (200 mana)
Sustainability: Sustainable
280 mana + 140 per turn
Effect: Forms a magical creature out of flowers. Usually a woman (although one could create a man, a pig, a bull, a horse, stag or another animal), the creature is of wonderful beauty and those who see her will want to please or possess her. She can bewitch her targets and get them to do her bidding as they want to please her at any cost. She is intelligent and able to speak under the control of her creator.


Mana (per turn / crystals): 50/100
Gold (per turn / coffers): ?/200
Castles: 0
Cities: 0
Towns: 0
Units:
Barbarian Berserkers
Spoiler :
100 berserkers
Veteran (8)
Swords (0)
Heavy Weapons (0)
Leather (0)
8 gold to train, 4 to maintain

The coastal Barbarians are known for their fierce and fast berserkers. These shock troops are trained for a small price and are armed with one weapon for each hand. They leave nothing in their path.


Warrior-bard of Kazaë
Spoiler :
1 warrior-bard
Trained (4)
Sword (0)
Leather (0)
Shield (0)
Expert magic (60)
64 gold, 60 mana to train, 32/30 to maintain

Warrior-bards of Kazaë are a sect encountered by Gwydion during his timeless travels in other worlds. When he saw a bard sing a song that let a mere peasant beat the king's champion in duel, Gwydion decided to learn their art, and now he brought it back to Ethereal. The warrior-bards look like normal itinerary singers, but they have a single magic power. They are able to sing songs of power to turn their friends into the best warriors that exist. A single bard singing warsongs will turn an army of untrained peasants into a horde of warriors that can out-trick the most experienced and elite soldiers. You really don't want to besiege a city with a single bard inside.


War galley
Spoiler :
1 trireme with 170 rowers, 3 officers, 7 deck crew and 20 marines.
Sea Dogs (16)
Galleys (8)
Shallow Seas (12)
36 gold, 18 to maintain

Gwynedd war galleys are triremes manned with barbarian rowers trained in synchronized rowing, featuring a bronze ram at the fore of the ship, and a catapult on the deck at the aft. They are fast ships that maneuver well in shallow waters but can't withstand rougher seas. Their marines carry the traditional heavy barbarian axes and shields but don't wear armor save for a helmet due to weight constraints and the risk of drowning.


Raiders
Spoiler :
24 raiders
Veteran (8)
Swords (0)
Short bows (4)
Leather (0)
Shield (0)
Noncombatant mount (8)
20 gold, 10 to maintain

Raiders are light cavalry. Their favored weapon is the bow and arrow. They wear leather and silk for protection. When forced to fight in close quarters, they resort to swords ans shields.
 
On the contrary I would suggest centaurs make the perfect cavalry force. Riders always try to become at one with their horse, which is why watching a skilled rider on their horse is so beautiful. Centaurs literally are at one with their horse, because half of them is a horse so they would be the most effective cavalry force in the world. Also they could not be knocked from their mounts and could rear up more easily in combat, as long as they didn't overbalance, which would be both hilarious and lethal. Still I understand the logic behind having them as a scouting force not a combatant force as well.

Also from that post you imply centaurs are shape-shifters not a conventional half-man, half-horse. An interesting proposal.

@ LDiCesare: Those bards are so having their vocal cords sliced by my mages!
 
On the contrary I would suggest centaurs make the perfect cavalry force. Riders always try to become at one with their horse, which is why watching a skilled rider on their horse is so beautiful. Centaurs literally are at one with their horse, because half of them is a horse so they would be the most effective cavalry force in the world. Also they could not be knocked from their mounts and could rear up more easily in combat, as long as they didn't overbalance, which would be both hilarious and lethal. Still I understand the logic.

Also from that post you imply centaurs are shape-shifters not a conventional half-man, half-horse. An interesting proposal.

I am open to the fluff. It is magic, after all. :D

Looks good, LDi.
 
Also, Vertinari, what I was thinking is that Centaurs are born mounted (obviously)... so they don't have to necessarily be combatant. I hope I'm making sense here.
 
I don't know about any other races, espescially since Dark Elves were nerfed by having mana upkeep applied to their skilled magic users (otherwise I would scream), but Halflings do need a major buff.

Let's look at them. -20 gold to an armor that resists magic, which still costs around 20 gold. Woot, big 50% cut in cost sounds really nice.

But the big question here is whether or not that Neythirl acts as this NES's mithril ie: whether or not it is swordproof/arrowproof as well as magick proof.

Otherwise, halfling players will be crushed on the plains by High Men heavy infantry and barbarian hordes (and orcs) while they would be slaughtered in the forests by elven longbowmen and beastmen hunters while they would be chased out of the hills by dwarves with their hill billies. Only thing they might have an advantage fighting against is the Dark Elves, except dark elves have something they can use against every single other race.
 
Warhammer NES. Interesting. :D

Yeah. The Mod insisted that the match-up wasnbalanced because of me having superior magic, but thought even Germany's magic was better. It didn't have the raw strength, but it was more usuable and didn't have as much negitive consequences when used. Had it actually started, I probably would had been steamrolled by the first turn. :p

Anything wrong with my Orcish crusaders?
 
@Seon: Dark Elves have to pay mana upkeep. They are balanced.

Netheryl is the best armor in the game. Enough said. It is magic resistant, and much stronger and lighter than plate mail. Perhaps I should clarify that in the rules.

I also brought the price of Netheryl down from 40 to 30 (so Halflings get it for 10)... but I am kind of regretting that now. I might return it to 40.

@Omega: They look good, but Wyvern Riders by default come with 5 riders. Wyverns are basically smaller dragons, but they are still incredibly powerful. 5 can easily slaughter and cover a wide range. 100 is a lot of Wyverns.
 
@Netheryl is the best armor in the game. Enough said. It is magic resistant, and much stronger and lighter than plate mail. Perhaps I should clarify that in the rules.

Good, because now that's a lot scarier thing.
 
How would having one hundred dragon riders be underpowered?
Because ALL of your units would have to be riding wyverns in order for you to get that advantage, and that makes them useless in certain situations (say, heavy forests, caves...) whereas magic is so versatile that a unit with magic bonus can be designed for free for each role you want them to have.
Notice the Beastmen have non-combat mounts so that's a pretty strange centaur.
Look at the unique beastmen unit description.
Netheryl is the polar opposite of magic. Halflings would become immune to the dark elves advantage, though it is fairly pricey.
Definitely not. Not only is it pricey as you say, but it's also not immunity. If I use magic to turn myself into an elite unit, I doubt the armor would prevent that. If the magic is used to summon rain and turn the battleground into a swamp the day before the battle, it being an indirect effect, the halflings will be bogged down by their armor while the dark elves won't... I could thinnk of tons of examples in which a shield or armor is useless against magic, because magic isn't applied directly against that armor. Plus if you have units that cost 8 gold face units that cost 24, the fact that the 24 gold units have armor that prevents the other units from using their magic power won't help much when they are still outnumbered 3 to 1.
High men gives you powerful infantry and cavalry. Notice all combat cavalry are discounted and heavy armour for all infantry, cavalry and even archers (think Gondor) is discounted. Heavy infantry hold the line while cavalry flank is a standard battle model used for hundreds of years, because it worked.
But their infantry donn't have a benefit while dark elf infantry have one. If their cavalry don't use spears but swords, then they are more expensive than the equivalent sark elf unit.
Dwarves are perfect for defending their mountain homes, were large weapons are impractical. Able to penetrate armour with ease, whilst being heavily armoured themselves.
And can't get any dsicount for armorless units, thus there are some roles where they don't have any bonus or they have holes in the roles they designed.
Dark elves is quite strong so one would have to rely on the dark elven players not metagaming but one hundred elves with magic would fall beneath ten thousand goblins with their 'crappy' equipment.
I think I said goblins were strong, since they can use their bonuses on almost every unit they design, which is my main gripe with the dark elves.
Also magic, unless done very creatively, is not necessarily the be all and end all. Finally all dark elven units cost 20 mana to recruit and 10 mana to maintain. That would add up to a huge sum of mana per turn to have a decent-sized army.
I edited my post since the mana cost has been added after I started writing it, and I still haven't read anything about whether the gold reduction also applies to mana or not. However, yes, it would change everything if the bonus turned something from free to half cost. And I do mean everything, not "a lot".
Barbarians are armour busters who would die instantly in a cavalry charge.
Swiss armorless pikemen tended to fare rather well vs. knights in the middle-age and renaissance. And realistically, armor is useless if you get trampled by a warhorse. A cavalry charge is first and foremost frightening. Armor is totally irrelevant in countering it. You must get the horse to die/stop/turn, which is done by fire or pointy sticks. Plus ,nothing prevents barbarians from riding horses too.

In short be more creative; play with the advantages you have. Trust other players and the mod to not metagame and prevent metagaming.
Dammit. Will you all stop telling me to be more creative? Look at Immac's FFHNESII, and see what I can do with ONE mage. I turned one CONTINENT into hell. And later on, I found some, say, issues, with wordings in some treaties to eventually provoke a war between former allies.
I would really appreciate it if people looked at my critics for what they are, namely critics to a system, and they stopped telling me how to behave. I am not trying to abuse the system myself. If I wanted to, I wouldn't be telling everyone where the system can be abused.
As I said in the first place, there's no reason to make lopsided rules and then trust people. Let's look for a moment. Arrors. 1000 per unit. So these are 10 times more numerous than a standard archer unit. For the same price. Sure, they'll be a pain to move etc, but with their price, they are worth 10 times the equivalent archery unit for the same price. I can agree that a single individual or a small commando has advantages over a big group or army, but when I see this and you tell me to trust people not to metagame, sorry, I can't. The first player to design a unit made it 10 times more powerful than its equivalent, for essentially the same price, and to fill the same role.
 
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