[BTS] Prince Player Tries Deity.

[PsychopathicWarmonger]

I thought I'd give this a try, I've been learning more on this game these past few months and have since reached Prince level, however I'd like to really know how the game changes when played at Deity level.
I wish to attempt a conquest/domination win,
with your help of course. XD

I'll be using the BAT 4.1 mod, and going with a Planet Generator, standard size, at normal speed, no events or huts. All other settings such as hills, peaks, floodplains will be set at default, smart, normal or recommended. I'll be going with a Random leader also.
I don't want to go Random and end up with a boreal climate map with no food anywhere, so I'll be timid with the map settings.

Playing Prince is one thing, I've found. You can make a mistake here or there and get away with it. The AI are quite reasonable in normal circumstances, and barbarians aren't much of an issue.
However I'd like to know how hard the game can really get. With the AI expansion and warmongering that can go on.
I don't expect or want to be coddled throughout this playthrough. I think I'll post a save and some screenshots at a milestone, such as the 2nd city, discovering another Civ, or when war is declared upon me. :O

I don't want this to get very serious. I'm looking to stretch my limbs and break the atmosphere of the game's difficulty.

So let's get started then. May the fun begin. XD

Inital Start:
So I rolled Hatshepsut of Egypt as my Civ. A good one, to my knowledge. Her Creative trait means I don't need monuments or libraries in my new cities to pop borders, aswell as doubling the construction speed of theatres and colosseums, and definite good for culture and happiness,
and the Spiritual trait means I won't have Anarchy (don't know how useful that might be), faster temples may be of use at my border cities though.

The obelisk strikes me as a rather useless UU building, as the Creative trait performs all of the same tasks without the need for hammers. Priests aren't much good either, to my knowledge.
The War Chariot is useful, however. I don't understand first strikes all too well but the +1 strength and 100% against Axeman means I should attempt some sort of an early rush, I think.

Agriculture and the Wheel for my starting techs. Based on what I can see at the moment in my starting postition, neither will be useful. Fishing would've been handy, aswell as Mining to reach Bronze Working faster.

So here we are in our starting position. Two calm resources with a third just out of reach of our BFC a little south-west. I see several Hills though and also a Freshwater Lake so this may make for a good Production city, I reckon.
I may move my warrior onto the hills north-west, and see if there's anything of interest West of my site. I won't see anything useful East, unless I move my settler. I suspect there may be another food resource North and East of my Settler, there tends to another resource hidden in the fog, right?

 

[PsychopathicWarmonger]

Could anyone let me know how to properly include screenshots too, mine kept coming up as broken images. Thanks.

 

[Major Tom]

Yes, would gamble on that, also need tiles with horses. Pity to leave coast, tho.

 

[lymond]

Copy the BBcode directly from Imgur and paste it right in

Not a very Egyptian start and no clue what Planet Generator maps produce, but I see no reason to move here unless the warrior find something interesting. GLH could certainly be on option.

 

[PsychopathicWarmonger]

So, I settled my Settler at the spawn site, and moved my warrior onto the hills north-west. I've spotted both Stone and Wheat West of my capital.
There's also Cow in my BFC, which I shall probably have hooked up quite early, if I want to find out where the Horses are for my War Chariots.
I also started researching Fishing, to get those Clam resources. I already have Agriculture, and if I'll be passing Masonry on the way to researching Bronze-Working so I could split off briefly and research that. Other than the Wheat, West of my Capital seems quite barren, with the Plains and Mountain tiles.

 

[yyeah]

ATM you dont need Mansonry, Fishing ->Mining->BW its safe way to go here. Reserching BW ealier will speed up your production by choop and .
Also if you dont find copper in your BFC or anywhere somewhere near you need to go hunting archery, barbs start to make barbs things ~2400BC sometimes ealier, going AH isnt an option here beocuse, for sure you dont have horses in your capital BFC.
Only option to hook up horses is if you find them on plains around your capital BFC and get it after 2nd border pop but this is a huge gamble.
So yea from my point of view Fishing( to get some early ), Mining( mine hill(s) with worker, maybe start to make a road to stone site) then BW choop WB's.
You have a lot of forest around your Capitol i think i would rather have Mids then GLH here but its debatable. Depends on scouting.

 

[PsychopathicWarmonger]

So, some good news. I explored some more of the area north, east and west of my site. I've spotted a big Sugar site north of my Capital. There's also a large deposit of Gems west of that Sugar along a river, with a Pig reource nearby. I done as suggested and researched Fishing->Mining->Bronze-Working and I've spotted a Copper source adjacent to the Wheat I discovered.

My border popped again. I have one Fishing Boat on one of the Clam sources and I also produced a Worker aswell to mine the empty hill (prior to researching Bronze-Working).
My Warrior was attacked by a Lion, I have those recovering from that. However I also spotted a Barbarian Warrior in the fog north-east of my site. They spawn quite early. :O

So I decided to research Hunting->Archery. I don't know how long it'll be before they enter my territory. Shouldn't be too long, I imagine. My next plan is to get another Fishing Boat out, and another Worker, then possibly construct the Pyramids, with the hope of a third border pop to swallow the Stone. If not, then I'd imagine a chop will get me the Pyramids. I'll get a Settler out to the first site south-west then. I'll need Iron-Working and Calender to access the Sugar north of the Capital.

Spoiler :

I also wanted to ask. Why is it a bad idea to leave the coast? I understand that Commerce from the Ocean is always welcome, but there are many resources that are unobtainable from the Coast, such as Incense, Gold etc.
Should I be basing my playstyle around the Coast? Perhaps get the Pyramids quickly to allow myself to apply Monarchy, so that happiness resources aren't too big a deal. I've done so before, playing by the Ocean that it, (with a Financial leader, the Great Lighthouse, The Colossus etc.) but I feel it stretches your territory too thin. Is a solid block not easier to defend and perform maintenance on than a long strip?

Thanks again on the help, all.

 

[lymond]

ha ha ..yep, you gotta lot to learn

I don't think anyone said anything about "playing coastal". You simply were dealt a coastal start. Ideally, except for obvious maps, I want a good bureau cap and have been known to move my settler inland to if I spy a good spot close by. it's all about reading the map. Nothing on Turn 0 after warrior move warranted a move from the coast. There's really no point overthinking that.

Concern here is that you have not met any AIs. Again, I am not familiar with this map script, but at this point not having met AIs and all that land around you, barbs could be a problem. I avoid Archery if at all possible, but may have been a good move, although clearly the copper, wheat, clams is you 2nd spot. But still may be hard to get axes online before barbs start invading.

You build Mids for Representation, not Monarchy.

Sugar site does not look appealing to me at all for a long time.

You are throwing around a lot of techs because you see this or that. Deity forces you to really focus on your tech path. You really have to tech with purpose and take advantage of tech trading and bulbing.

I thought your were Ram at first, so GLH may be tough, although it looks like good wonder for this map. However, Mids is something I would pursue. It could be chopped in Thebes when stone is online.

On Deity, you need to settle compactly early one, and overlap/tile share as much as possible.

I settled clam/copper 3SW and probably stone 1E of stone, with expectation that it use the wheat for food. Pigs is just too far away I think to settle that for stone.

You have 4 decent cities close to Thebes for now so that is good. No bureau cap I see now, but maybe something can be worked out around those pigs/gems later.

 

[yyeah]

I agree with @lymond you have a lot to learn
Well its even hard for me to give you advice, beocuse theres so many things here. Thats v interesting start beocuse of many way to play it.

From what i c GLH is way to go here. You have like 4 maybe 5 decent costal sites, basicly all execpt stone one, and GLH can push up your power in early stage of the game. Not mention that expansions will allso pay for themselves.

But allso like @lymond said i would pursue for Mids.
To make it happend one needs to make good use of choops and whips for overflow .
Even then idk is it possible ... depends on which ai are on the map or/and do they have a stone.

Would be nice to avoid archery ( and just go sailing mansonry), since this calm copper is natural 1st city spot but allso, idk is it possible to get an axe befor barbs will come.
Option is you can choop ( forests 1SW and 3SW form cap so your settler can travel faster) this wb, couple of warriors( i think is worth it) and at size 4 put 1 choop to settler and whip it but even then idk is axe will be on time.

Especialy theres no ai around and one can expect a legion of barbs comming from N jungle maybe from S. So this is kind of gamble.
Maybe if you would be more expirienced player you could pull it out but ...

Tbh i would love to check it/try it but your save is with 4.1Bug mod and i dont have it ;/

 

[PsychopathicWarmonger]

I know this game is probably beyond me, I wanted to try it to force myself into better habits. To get rid of carelessness etc. XD

Going for both Mids and GLH is possible then, yes? I generally avoided trying to chop too many wonders so early in my other games because I figured it would damage my expansion, and allow the AI to gain a land-lead.

I think I'll abandon Archery, and make a move for the Copper. I'll chop a Settler and then either Mids or GLH, and then chop the remainding wonder. The Wheat site seems to be the best bet, in any case. (Just occured to me now, would chopping GLH first be the best option? So as to get the 2nd city with Stone connected to reduce the need to chop so much for the Mids?)

It's looking like then that I'll need to go Sailing/Masonry next, if that's the plan.
The grassland spot below the Wheat for my 2nd city, looks to me like the best spot for my Settler. Am I right?

Also, perhaps there's a nice Commercial Coastal City far east, where the fish is?

You were both asking about the map sizing aswell. The size is by Standard (80*52). The Planet Generator merely generates the map with more realistic contintinents, rivers, hills etc.
The distances between AIs should be more or less the same as in Vanilla.

 

[yyeah]

Going for both Mids and GLH is possible then, yes? I generally avoided trying to chop too many wonders so early in my other games because I figured it would damage my expansion, and allow the AI to gain a land-lead.

Yes its possible ( i supose). No worry about squeeze becouse no1 is around.

I think I'll abandon Archery, and make a move for the Copper. I'll chop a Settler and then either Mids or GLH, and then chop the remainding wonder. The Wheat site seems to be the best bet, in any case. (Just occured to me now, would chopping GLH first be the best option? So as to get the 2nd city with Stone connected to reduce the need to chop so much for the Mids?)

If you want to abandon archery fort warriors around the copper site.
GLH 1st is best option IMO.
After you get axe or 2 start working on LH at size 6 whip 2nd settler and put overflow in to either LH or GLH.
next S4 whip 2nd worker overflow in to LH/GLH.

It's looking like then that I'll need to go Sailing/Masonry next, if that's the plan.
The grassland spot below the Wheat for my 2nd city, looks to me like the best spot for my Settler. Am I right?

Yes tahts your 1st exp dont forget to fog bust with warriors around.

Also, perhaps there's a nice Commercial Coastal City far east, where the fish is?

Thats great Moai site.

 

[Major Tom]

Think it was me mentioning leaving the coast was a pity. Not for commerce from watertiles (bad use of population), but the map looked so strong for The Great Lighthouse. Also coast gives you easy traderoutes. There is something called Traderoute Economy. Had a really fun game with Hannibal with TGL, Cothons along with currency. Felt like having a goldtile in every city and even not having to work them.

 

[elmurcis]

Side note for future expansion.... With or without GLH, settling that small island next to Capital also could be clear "profit" as 5th or 6th city (N tile - can settle there over sea)- all cities would get 2 commerce trade route with minimal maintence cost

Edit for reply but not new post: I did mean single trade route per city with 2 value (because oversea) not 2 trade routes (thats GLH that gives 2 trade routes per coastal city)

 

[PsychopathicWarmonger]

I settled the city 1S of the Wheat, and have my exploring warrior moving to defend it now. I also have put production in my Capital going into a Warrior, well-timed it seems, as the Barbarian Warrior decided to invade a few turns ago. I'll pull that Worker back to the city, and fortify the Warrior in the Forest.
I also spotted a Barbarian Archer near the fog west of the new Corn resource I found south. They spawn rather fast. :O

My exploring Warrior also encountered a Dutch Fishing Boat down south, and with the sea ice which is furthur south, I'd take a guess that the Dutch are also along my coastline further west.

I researched Sailing, anyhow, and have Masonry on the way. I'll put the overspill into the GLH, or should I change my production into a Warrior incase my defending Warrior gets killed? I have no other defending the city.
Should I let my city grow before building the GLH? @yyeah suggested that I construct the GLH at size 6. Should I be building a worker to accomadate my 2nd city? I'm a little flustered. :\

Spoiler :

Also, to the advice above: there's no food source on the island, won't it only be a small city? And why would it give +2 trade routes to my coastal cities?

 

[Fippy]

I am waaay too lazy currently for details, but playing BAT already makes you

Okay maybe other than..you really picked a complicated start for a deity game

Wait..Lymo wrote Pyras for Rep but not Monarchy?
Hmm..if we tell @obsolete about that, this could get even more complicated.

But i really should write something useful here
If you want to learn deity, one of your first lessons will be: only tech archery if there's no other way.
You cannot afford such annoying tech paths on difficult maps, if you might get away with warris instead.

Test.. try..learn..yay.
Play many many games, learn how warris can fog bust.
Look at what point archery becomes needed, or when there are other options.
Playing Hatchie (no hunting) and this poor start, it's the very last option you should use.

 

[Fippy]

Looked again, not teching AH first really complicates everything with this start.
Delaying fishing is what makes this easier, not other way round.

AH and mining gives 2 good enuf tiles for settlers and other production, while it's also showing where horsies might be for the best barb defense unit.
Peoples by now try being smart with AH and why it's not good early, sometimes that's true but when cows are your best tile and your super UU are war chariots then not teching AH first becomes wrongly overthinking, not smart.

 

[pigswill]

From what I've seen of this Gwall looks like a really good wonder though maybe (probably) a bit late for it now. Barbs are going to be a significant problem quite soon.

 

[yyeah]

@PsychopathicWarmonger this worker should be bulid mine on copper , allso there should be a road allrdy.
You start chooping LH without barb def, 1st of all you need a axe here.

@Fippy v often i gamle on horses and tech AH 1st when iam playing Egipt, but why i dont like here this option is lack of .
In my allmoust all diety games 1st of all what iam looking for is , and tahts the reason agains AH for me here.
If with this start one would have 1-2 tiles to work situation could be completly diferent.

But its just you know, how iam playing this game and its allways interesting to discuss how other players attempt to same start/game.

Edit.
@pigswill Yea if one is moveing from Prince to Deity GW should be definitely way to go here .
NK

 

[Major Tom]

but why i dont like here this option is lack of .
In my allmoust all diety games 1st of all what iam looking for is , and tahts the reason agains AH for me here.
If with this start one would have 1-2 tiles to work situation could be completly diferent.

Really? Palace gives you 8. Working watertiles does not make that mutch difference? Have to agree with Fippy. Not teching AH is a shame. You need war chariots and work high yield cowtile for expansion (and commerce follow along with that) especially if you can grab TGL.

And to OP, where did that barb come from? Unfogged tiles from east? You should have a warrior there covering your ass.

 

[Snowbird]

In my allmost all diety games 1st of all what i am looking for is , and thats the reason against AH for me here.
If with this start one would have 1-2 tiles to work situation could be completly diferent.

Problem is stuff like clams/crabs are rather very weak early on -- 4food0hammers with 30 hammer upfront cost slows you a lot --- in most cases it is likely to be better to search for with the settler.