[BTS] Prince Shadow Game

[SittinDown]

I just meant in general. like what lymond was saying earlier.

 

[Fippy]

It's confusing how your Thebes seems to have cows improved first.
With 4 good tiles first would help you grow on them quicker.

 

[SittinDown]

Can you explain this a little bit, it seems like improving pigs or cows would give me an equal number of foods/hammers.

Yes. But general rule is that Food > Hammers > Commerce. Food lets you expand to your other tiles faster, and work your best tiles sooner - and once you grow to unhappiness, you can convert population to hammers via whipping, or work specialists later.

 

[Stibi-shimi]

Turn 21 / 3160 BC

Ok. No problem. I appreciate the help and don't want to seem intransigent. Slowing down gameplay and taking every move deliberately is a big change in play style so bear with me.

Heeding this advice, I have gone back to a previous save and changed the improvement order. Improved pigs 1E first and began to work on pigs 1NE.

Spoiler :

Comparing the two states at Turn 21, I see that @SittinDown and @Fippy were right - improving east pigs first has made the city grow faster than it had in the prior save. This has bumped my research up a turn I think.

I will produce warriors until population 4, at which point I will switch to a settler. Still going to research BW as I already have the wheel for war chariots. Aiming to settle 3W from Thebes. Warrior 2 will go try to steal a worker from Caeser. Warrior 3 will explore SW. Is there any advice I'm ignoring?

 

[SittinDown]

a big change in play style so bear with me.

• No worries! Forum-games are very different than solo games. Looks like you got the right idea now.
  
• I'm honestly not sure where I'd settle next - I recommend you post your next save on the turn you build the settler, and we can discuss 2nd city site options.

If you're itching to play faster, you can always play a 2nd game in parallel with your forum game.

• That city is going to be size for VERY fast now, and should be able to build a settler much sooner than before. Much better!

 

[lymond]

Yep food first! The 1E pigs is your best tile there. I suspected earlier that you had improved the tiles suboptimally which was why your city is only at Size 2. It's rare that you have 4 strong resources in your BFC all from 1 tech. With that food + horse tile, growing to Size 4 to build settler is best.

I would emphasize the following point just so we are clear here: The early turns are extremely important. That means worker turns and decision making. Improving early gameplay leads snowballs later. Turns should be played slowly, deliberately, and meticulously.

An yep, I woulda setup for a worker steal around AC's horse or ivory tile. Do ceasefire as soon as you can (not peace treaty). Build 4 to 5 WC's and take him out.

 

[Stibi-shimi]

Turn 26 / 2960 BC

The warriors are on their way west. I pause here because Thebes has just hit pop 4 and I will switch production from the warrior, leaving it unfinished, to a settler which will be ready in 6 turns.

As for future city sites, there's the dry corn and the pigs. Someone suggested 3W of Thebes to share the cows. Input?

Worker will build a pasture next. That should be done within a turn of the settler, making a nice pivot for the worker to the new city. An added advantage of having started with the 1E pigs is that the worker is now west and closer to the new city area.

Map

Spoiler :

City

Spoiler :

 

[Pangaea]

Honestly, I'd say settle 3W (it's the natural spot). The city can borrow the pig. Build/chop War Chariots. Your 3rd city is Rome.

 

[Stibi-shimi]

Your 3rd city is Rome.

hahahaha let's do it.

 

[CTG16]

@lymond

Do ceasefire as soon as you can (not peace treaty).

What is the difference in this case between cease fire and peace treaty? I always assumed they had the same effects

 

[sampsa]

I understand it can be confusing (especially with @Fish Man half-trolling), but this is what I said in post #15

Improve best tiles first! Also, it's more important to get one improved tile asap. Pigs 1E is the best tile you have (6 is slightly better than 51) and it's 1T faster to improve since you don't need to step on the hill. With 4 very strong tiles, fast growth and no strong 2nd site I'd grow to size 4, then start a settler.

This answers all your questions in post #20.

 

[SittinDown]

Case Fire stops the war - but you can re-start any time.
Peace Treaty ends the war, and you cannot re-declare for 10 turns.

 

[CTG16]

Ah makes sense thank you

 

[Stibi-shimi]

Turn 31, 2760 BC. Let me know if that's too much of a jump.

Settler will pop in 1. Worker just stopped working. What's next for him? Do I want to move him 1E and build a farm for the cities to share as a food source? What's first on the build list for the 2nd city?

I think I want to keep the south warrior near the unimproved horses in case AC's worker comes to build a pasture. I'll move the north warrior down along AC's borders and reveal some land.

Spoiler :

 

[SittinDown]

That's a strong early-game capital. Crazy high food, and hammers. But it's weak on commerce. I suppose a second city makes sense to 3W.

Next step is to chop / whip 4-5 War Chariots, and make Rome bow to the Egyptian Empire. [quite a turn of events?]

 

[lymond]

One thing to note with City 2 that I directed you to settle 3W. First, it will tile share with Thebes, taking cow or pigs first (depends on what you want to do and happy cap), but giving Memphis the pigs first will allow it to grow fast and 1 pop a WC.

Second, both cities are coastal and the coast is inside cultural borders. That means insta-trade route. (Look in cities and note the trade route is connected giving commerce.

Normally, I'd say go ahead and start a granary in a new city if POT is teched, but taking out AC with uber-WC's is just to tempting on this level. So bring out the guns.

Time for choppin'. In this case for WCs....in most other cases for more workers and settlers.

Normal I'd switch to slavery as the new settler is moving to its location (new city does not affected by anarchy turn, but BW will not be finished. Rather switch to Slavery when Memphis hits size 2 so you can whip the WC the following turn. If you have a free worker back home in time you could have a chop prepared, but not sure if that will happen.

Once you have your little army in place, you can focus on more workers and settlers.

A city 1SE of pigs would be my next choice. Something next to corn could follow. I'd have a warrior standing near pigs for now to spawnbust.

Don't move warrior N of Rome any further W. Send him back to Pigs area for now

 

[Stibi-shimi]

Turn 33, 2680 BC.

BW in 1 and we'll see some copper on the map. Memphis has just been founded and I switched from default working cows to working pigs for faster growth. Worker has been moved to 1N forest to chop. Is there a preference for which forest I chop?

Full map:

Spoiler :

Memphis (City 2)

Spoiler :

Thebes (Capital)

Spoiler :

How many WCs we trying to get? Once they spawn do I send them to harass AC and pillage tiles right away, or stack up and wait?

 

[SittinDown]

On Prince? 4-5 ought to be plenty if you chop them out. (Just guessing here).

• Probably best to keep them in your cultural borders, then move them all at once. It's cheaper that way - you have to pay extra for units outside your borders.
  
• Don't pillage - you want to capture Rome and use it for your own devices. Pillaging it will just waste worker turns later.

• You probably want to work that brown cow in Thebes rather than the plains hill forest - I'm guessing you're working the low-food tile to avoid getting an unhappy citizen in Thebes?
  
• Did you leave a warrior by Rome's pigs and get a worker-steal? It looks like you didn't - but it's a good technique to use against an early rush - since the extra worker can be used to chop forests and get your army out faster.

 

[Stibi-shimi]

• You probably want to work that brown cow in Thebes rather than the plains hill forest - I'm guessing you're working the low-food tile to avoid getting an unhappy citizen in Thebes?

I think you're right. I forgot about it because the tile defaulted to Memphis' control but I started working the pigs. I'll give it back to Thebes.

 

[Pangaea]

Actually think Prince AIs still start with warriors only, so 1-2 war chariots may actually be enough if you get there fast enough. But go with 4-5 for practice and security. That also makes it easier to continue with another AI after, if you prefer.

Is there a preference for which forest I chop?

Talking in general here, ideally you chop down forests in an X pattern. That increases the chance for regrowth. May not happen ofc, but the chance is higher than if you chop down forests next to each other.

So roughly (C=Chop, F=Forest)

C F C F C
F C F C F
C F C F C