PROD Shadow - Sirian's TDG "Alternate Timelines"

1)1725BC - Worker outside Nottingham finishes what he was doing and moves to the game tile to pave it. Worker outside Hastings moves to chop down some trees to improve a forest tile.

Between turns - York finishes settler and starts spearman.

2)1700BC - Misc Movement. York settler heads NE to enjoy rich floodplains. Hastings spearman and London spearman stay on MP duty, to prevent unrest. Adjust London to use tile shared with York rather than the forest tile, which the silly govenor decided to use at the beginning of this turn when London expanded.

Between Turns - Canterbury finishes warrior, starts temple so that culture can expand city to get to the fish.

3)1675BC - Misc Movement. Canterbury warrior joins settler going SE. There is what looks like a land bridge South of Russia, which a scout and a couple warriors will go explore.

Between Turns - London finishes a settler, starts a spearman, because I don't think we can expand to size 3 before another settler is built.

4)1650BC - Misc Movement. London settler/spearman pair SE to settler south of the fish.

5)1625BC - Misc Movement. Nottingham warrior attacks barb outside Nottingham and is promoted to veteran. SW warrior attacks barb encampment and get 25 gold. SE scout spots a pink warrior and makes contact with Joan, who is polite. She has three cities. She want 47 gold to establish an embassy, so that will have to wait, because we only have 37. She will give us her treasury of 10 gold for an cerimonial burial. That gives us the 47 we need. Nottingham causes us to adjust lux to 20% to avoid unrest. Science bumped down to 70% puts us to -1 into treasury. We don't quite need an embassy with France, since she has no money for ROP.

6)1600BC - Misc Movement.

Between turns - Hasting finishes a settler and starts another.

7)1575BC - Coventry is founded on some floodplain west of coast north of Hastings. Growth in 10. Starts a settler (30). Hastings settler Warwick is founded SW on London and SE of Canterbury between dyes, pond, and game. Starts a spearman. Warrior in the north destroys the barb encampment he traveled so far for, to get 25 gold. Hastings settler heads toward the gems, with spearman. We can afford to build French embassy for 45 gold. Paris has 3 grapes and will finish a settler this turn. I offer ROP with Hammi (Babylon) to make him polite, since we are encroaching on his lands. Since we have 25 gold (we are the only ones with any gold) I bump science to 80% to gain a turn on math, but at a cost of -2 gold per turn.

Between turns - Road to dyes NE of York is done, making the three connected cities happier. French warrior attack unseen individual SW of land bridge.

8)1550BC - Scout sees a barb camp that must have spawned barb that french warrior attacked. NW warrior gets 25 gold for cleaning up barbs near some incense. Worker who paved the dyes will clear the jungle in hopes of making the tile useful. The dyes make it so we don't need any luxury money. Worker who pave game north of Nottingham joins another worker in forest NE of Nottingham. Both workers will chop down the trees to help Nottingham build a temple after the settler is done next turn. Science does not gain anything to be bumped up and can even go down to 50% and still get math in 2 turns, gaining us 7 gold per turn.

Between turns - London finishes spearman, starts settler. York finishes spearman, starts another, because settler would be done too eary. Nottingham finishes settler, starts a temple, which will get some help from the workers choping down trees.

9)1525BC - Newcastle founded south of fish SE of London, starts settler. Nottingham settler heads west to settle in the furtile grasslands between Nottingham and Moscow. NW warrior will join him.

Between Turns - Math is discovered. After bumping Science to 100% we will get Literature in 11 at a cost of 2 gold per turn. Our people want to build the forbidden palace.

10)1500BC - Misc Movement. Our warriors are blocking the land bridge, so that the French cannot explore up near us. China is still the only one who knows about iron working, and Mao still wants more than just ROP for it. It might be weed to keep waiting, but I don't think we abolutely need it yet, so I hold off. Otherwise, no one else has any techs to trade with us. No one, including Mao, has any gold.
prod-shadow-zot-1500bc.zip
 
With a number of turns in the can, I personally am thoroughly enjoying myself and have no problem with the format as it stands. Criticism in the right light is beneficial and I fully expected such going into this. So... to the turn at hand.

Summary: Founded towns, lost some gold but more than made it back. Onward!

1750 BC (0) Visit all cities. York gives up shared tile for forest.
Diplomacy: Get Iron Working for Contact with Russians, Ceremonial Burial.

-- Barbarian enters Russia.
1725 BC (1) Settler to desert N of lake. Road complete, Worker (Wk) to forest/game. Road complete, Wk to forest. Spear to Hastings. London Spear fortifies.

-- York finishes Settler, starts Warrior (Wr).
1700 BC (2) Settler2 to hills E of iron. Road forest/game. Road forest. Hastings Spear fortifies. Wr sees Hun. Nottingham Wr joins Settler.

-- Second Hun chases Scout (S). Canterbury finishes Wr, starts Wr.
1675 BC (3) Wr escorts Settler. Wr attacks Hun, wins. Canterbury Wr S (possible escort duty). Wr rests. S moves through Babylon.

-- See Hun. London finishes Settler, starts Spear.
1650 BC (4) Settler3 to hills E of game. London Spear escorts. Wr attacks Hun, loses 2hp (red) but wins, sees Hun camp/1 wr. S sees French. Contact France who have very little. Get their treasury (10g) for Pottery.

1625 BC (5) Settler arrives, Wr to hills. Settler2 arrives. Wr sees Gepid camp/1 wr. Wr rests. Spear returns to London. Lux 20% (Sci 80%) to support Nottingham at size 3; loses 1 turn research, Mathematics in 6.

-- Hammurabi demands Contact w/French and we agree -- he is now Polite. York finishes Wr starts Barracks.
1600 BC (6) Coventry founded, starts Spear. :hammer: Warwick founded, starts Wk. :hammer: Mine complete, Wk to plains/cattle. Wr attacks Gepid camp, loses 1hp (yellow) and wins 25g. London Spear fortifies. York Wr to Nottingham for MP. Wr to Warwick as our Military Advisor warns of nearby Khazaks. Wr rests. S sees Goth.

-- Road complete to Iron. See Khazak heading for Germany, hope he continues on as our Wr can't reach Warwick in time. Hastings finishes Settler, starts Wr.
1575 BC (7) Settler/Spear to jungle to get all the gems. German Wk mines hills/iron. Road grassland on way to plains/cattle. Wr (on same side of river) attacks Hun camp, loses 1hp (yellow) wins 25g. Wr reaches Settler. Wr arrives at Nottingham, Lux 20% Sci 100% gains 1 turn research, Mathematics in 2. Canterbury changes to Spearman (we have plenty of Wrs).

-- Road complete to Dyes. See French settler. Khazak wr, horse turn to Warwick, Alemanni horse :eek: now in reach of Coventry, nothing I can do. Well, ALMOST nothing -- time to dump some cash.
1550 BC (8) Establish Embassy with France-47g. Settler/Wr arrive. Road complete, Wk NE to grassland/shield (for Coventry). Road complete, clear forest. Road complete, clear jungle. Nottingham Wr fortifies. Sci 90% -1gpt Mathematics in 1.

-- Warwick ransacked once -2g, twice -2g. Coventry ransacked, -2g. :mad: A loss of 6g is deemed acceptable. :rolleyes: Babylonian Nineveh defends against barbarian. Mathematics learned, Currency in 19. London finishes Spear, starts Settler. Nottingham finishes Settler, starts Spear (Can no longer produce Wrs here).
1525 BC (9) Newcastle founded, starts Wr, Wr fortifies. :hammer: Settler/Wr to grassland W of hills to grab incense. Mine grassland/shield. Wr reaches Warwick (too late, though). Spear to Nottingham. S through Babylon, sees Russian scout.

-- Build Forbidden Palace message. Babylonian borders expand, S now within, see Babylonian Ellipi founded.
1500 BC (10) Settler/Wr W to hills, see Alemanni camp/1 wr. Settler/Spear S to hills. S leaves Babylon. Road complete, Wk N to plains/cattle. Warwick Wr NW to mountains. Spear reaches Nottingham. Complete turn with round of diplomacy-
From Germany- Get their treasury (75g) for Contact w/Chinese. (They really should have met by now)
We have all the gold; are ahead of all in science and culture; have military parity with Russia and China, and outnumber the rest. With extra gold now, kick Science to 100% Currency in 18.

This round, along with the dropping of detailed reporting for scout moves raises a number of questions for me that I hope Sirian can address between rounds.

1) Care to summarize good scouting? For me, moving on the diagonals (N,S,E,W) reveals more territory was a winner.
2) How do you determine the proper ratio of troops to workers to infrastructure? I based my troop building on parity with the other civs and didn't have enough for barbarian threats. Was able to minimize their damage, though.
3) Is now the right time to talk about Forbidden Palace placement?
4) Any other topics you wish to summarize and put to bed?

Be seeing you...

---> TBC (Temples Before Cathedrals, duh)

TBC's Shadow - 1750BC
 
@ChrTh


What does "ttyl!" stand for?
I don't recognize that one.
 
I agree with Black Cursor. I like the format for this game. I know that there are things that I need to learn, and I fully expect to be told about :smoke:. I have learned quite abit already, both from being told that some things were done correctly and some things done not very correctly at all.
My only problem is that it seems to take a while for each turn to happen. I liked reading the RBD games where there was a new turn just about every day, or at least some discussion each day. However I know that I would have a difficult time keeping up, if we went any quicker than we are doing it now. I find myself thinking a lot more about each move, and then also spending more time with the writeups. Maybe too much time on the writups. :D I think it will slow down even more in the future, because there will be more cities to micromanage and more units to move.
And soon we will need to administer some beatdowns. :hammer: I think Hammi is too close for comfort. We are right in the center of the landmass. We could end up with a multi-front war. I think that we may want to deal with Hammi soon, so that we will have a wall to put our back against when dealing with Cathy, Mao, and Bizzi. Dealing with those three will require some alliances I think. Russia is the only one close enough to help with Babylon, but Cathy, Mao, and Bizzi are all close to each other, and may be very happy to help, if they don't start without us.
 
And soon we will need to administer some beatdowns.

Not in this game. You can get that somewhere else, or figure it out well enough on your own. Train a bag of units, attack, don't stretch too thin, fight off counterattacks until the enemy army's offense is spent, etc etc.

Regent AI's are very easy to beat down. We could train a few archers and horses, even, and go smash one of them to pulp.

Trouncing the AI's, especially early, is the "strongest" tactic in most situations, especially for civs with ancient UU's.

Have you forgotten the mission I set for the game? No ancient wonders, no religious/scientific/militaristic/industrious, and no aggression. Why? So you'd each improve your comprehension of the basics as applies to any civ in any situation, and get out from under overreliance on particular gambits, resources, strengths.

We're just getting started. :) Learning to co-exist with neighbors and compete with them without making war instead of attacking them all the time has its up sides, too. And one of the lessons for SG's is, if there's a game theme or variant rules laid out at the start, and everyone who signs on agrees to the terms, you need to stick by them, even if that sometimes seems inconvenient.


- Sirian
 
Originally posted by Sirian


Have you forgotten the mission I set for the game? No ancient wonders, no religious/scientific/militaristic/industrious, and no aggression. Why? So you'd each improve your comprehension of the basics as applies to any civ in any situation, and get out from under overreliance on particular gambits, resources, strengths.

We're just getting started. :) Learning to co-exist with neighbors and compete with them without making war instead of attacking them all the time has its up sides, too. And one of the lessons for SG's is, if there's a game theme or variant rules laid out at the start, and everyone who signs on agrees to the terms, you need to stick by them, even if that sometimes seems inconvenient.


- Sirian

I knew that we were not going for ancient wonders, and you tried to limit the civ specific traits. But I did not remember the NO aggression part. I guess maybe I had interpreted it as no ancient aggression (to go with no ancient wonder), to prevent the ancient conquest victory. But since you say that we don't want ANY aggression I will stick to that.
What can we do when they attack us?
 
Well, if they attack, woe to them. War is war, fight to win. We got a free settler and a good start, we could probably play Always War from this point and win handily.

If we reach a point at which there is no more reasonable peaceful expansion, our infrastructure is maxed and our factories are sitting around with nothing to do but crank troops, then the game will be over, and you guys can mop it up however you like. The game itself is not so much the focus as imparting insights about how to make effective choices.

War's not off the table, but it's not the focus here. In playing civ, you either need to commit yourself to an ancient war from almost the start, or commit yourself to a rapid expansion. You won't have the resources to do a proper mix of each. You end up doing half-arsed at both.


- Sirian
 
I think it's a simple matter of making our motto:

WAR! Huh! Good God Y'all! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing! Say it again!

:D

Don't worry, the AI always attacks in the end...and then...it's :hammer: time!
 
I have to agree that this has been fun and educational. I would like to see a faster progression but if all of us that are enjoying the game continue to keep up turns should move pretty quickly.

As far as ancient war vs. expansion, what are we heading for in the long term? Is the goal to build all the cities we can even if they are not productive because of corruption or poor position? When do you transition from expansion to building up our cities and growing in population and culture? I understand the objective of this game is not victory at any cost but rather the understanding of how the game works and planning of city development, civilization expansion, and military protection. Not relying on wonders for happiness, culture, or growth make total city management that much more important.

From the looks of it we are soon to a crossroads and need some direction on future development. How many cities is too many? Is a Forbidden Palace in our future? Military for protection? culture(temples/cathedrals), growth (aqueducts/granaries), science (libraries/university), and military(barracks/harbors) or commerce(markets/banks)?

Sirian, please give some guidence for what the future holds and how we should be shaping our future turns, official as well as shadow?

Hotrod :cool:
 
I seem to have lost interest and time somewhere along here. Please drop me from the roster. Maybe I'll try again in a month or two if I regain interest. Sorry for filling space someone else could have been actually using. :(
 
Forbidden Palace is always in the future, Hotrod. To play with the intent of never building one would be a pretty harsh handicap. Might be interesting, but we're not doing that here.

We're a long, long way away from reaching the point at which we have too many cities or cities are too distant and corrupt to matter any more. Each patch has made major changes, and things are now at such that even a quarter of the map away, cities with a courthouse and running WLTKD can run as much as half their shields uncorrupted. PROPER management of corruption is perhaps one of the least understood fields in the game, at least as far as most players go.

So yes, for this game, the intent is unlimited expansion. No end of cities, keep settling more and more, peacefully. You will then have an up close and personal look, with an experienced player on hand to help you, at just what kind of value can be pulled out of cities of all levels of corruption, what kinds of improvements or decisions are good for them, when cities are too corrupt to warrant any investment whatsoever, and so on and so forth.

My plan is for us to build cities, and keep on building them, to work on improving them, while balancing that with defense and other factors, to practice good trade deals and so on, and especially to deal with effective expansion and what to do with each city in each unique situation to maximize it, AS WELL AS balancing them all together to meet civ-wide needs.

Our opponents are there and may through their actions dictate some changes in our course, but overall there is much yet to be learned by way of mainly ignoring them and staying focused on our own civ.

If you are of a mind to look into what works well in regard to the military side, you could study the Game of the Month reports and learn from all the various players and their military endeavors than I could impart to you here.

As for the FP, a good rule of thumb if building it peacefully, on your own, instead of using a leader to rush it, is to find the most centralized spot you can, in an unproductive or low production area, around which to build a second hub. You pretty much want to put it as far away from the capital as you can WITHOUT resorting to one or two shields per turn to get it done. You need four or more shields per turn from the FP city, to pull the FP in within fifty turns. More than fifty turns is too long, you're too far away and either need a leader, another location, or to rethink your plans entirely. You also have to adapt to the land.

Assuming we don't take over either Germany or Babylon in this game, then the FP location is debateable, and will depend on the shape of the cities we're able to found. It's WAY too early to cross that bridge, in one sense, although if you can look over the map and have the judgement to spot a "good" FP site from this early in the game (see RBD14 for such an example) then rushing a settler to the spot to get things started ASAP is a great idea.

Is this enough direction for now? :)


- Sirian
 
Mardoc: thanks for the heads up. Good luck on your path.


THERE IS NOW AN OPENING ON THE ROSTER FOR THIS GAME, if anybody lurking is interested in jumping in here. Apply now! :)


- Sirian
 
ChrTh's Shadow Turn

Turn 0 -- 1750 BC
Start of a turn so I check diplomacy...
I love it, the Domestic Advisor is telling us to build more settlers, when we have settlers being built in 4 of the 5 cities.
Compared to everybody, we have a strong army?
I trade ROP and communication with the Russians to the Chinese to get Iron Working. My rationale is that they're right next to each other.
Other communications could be sold, but no one has any cash.
Iron is next door to London! Impressively enough, a worker is already building Road there.
I won't cover Scout movements anymore, unless something important is found.

Turn 1 -- 1725 BC
Spearman goes into Hastings.
Spearman fortifies in London so it won't revolt in 2 turns.
One of my scouts found a barbarian camp...I'm afraid he's doooooomed.

Turn 2 -- 1700 BC
Scout is doooooomed.
York completes Settler, I order up Barracks. I'm not 100% sure where to place this settler, but I move him northwards for now.
Worker outside Nottingham begins second mine.
I drop science to 80%...we're now gaining 3gpt instead of losing 1. It sets back Math by 2 turns, though. I'll keep an eye on this one.

Turn 3 -- 1675 BC
Canterbury finishes Warrior, I order up another Warrior. This Warrior will escort the Settler SE.
Warrior lays smackdown on Barbarian.

Turn 4 -- 1650 BC
London completes Settler, orders up Warrior...I'm going to send this Settler S to build city on hill next to 2 gold.
Warrior fails to clean out Barbarian camp.

Turn 5 -- 1625 BC
Barbarian shows up NW of Nottingham, threatening Worker (deja vu all over again)...I move my Warrior out to defend.
The spot I want to put the N Settler on doesn't have a river spot...there are a couple other less optimal spots that do, or are on lake....if I build a city on the hill directly N of cow, it'll grow fast, but will be seriously overlapping...I decide I'll do it anyway, and let Sirian be the judge :)
Hrm, good thing I checked...Nottingham was about to riot. I raise luxuries to 20% temporarily.


Turn 6 -- 1600 BC
Worker completes Mine near York, Worker is sent N to Road and Irrigate Cow to about-to-be-built-city...or Coventry, as it's called when built :) I set it to Warrior.
Ok, Barbarian NW of Nottingham is dispatched, and a Gepid encampment is destroyed (for 25 gpt)
I'm able to drop luxuries to 10% and keep Nottingham happy until Settler is built (I'm going to send Warrior W to find Camp and :hammer: )
Interesting...if I raise Science to 90%, Nottingham riots...but at 80% it doesn't...apparently the Sheriff's at work :D

Turn 7 -- 1575 BC
Iron is online. I send that Worker N to begin ChrTh's Line o' Irrigation (tm) for the 3rd time.
Hastings builds Settler, I order up Warrior (to take care of SE barbarian camp)...I send Spearman with Settler.
Warwick is built, Warrior ordered up
25 gold from a Hun encampment
I drop Science to 70%, still get Math in 4

Turn 8 -- 1550 BC
Dyes into London! Hooray!
London completes Warrior, begins Settler. Warrior sent South to defend city about to be built.
Canterbury completes Warrior, begins Warrior, and then will build Worker (will complete when grows to 2). I fortify Warrior
With Dyes online, I drop Lux to 0% and raise Science to 90% to get Math in 2. We're losing 1 gpt, but that's it.
Nottingham worker completes Mine, begins Road.
Worker doing dyes goes to build Mine NW of York
Hastings is changed to Settler.
Worker completes Forest road, begins Road that will head to Gems where city will be built.
I change mind on Settler, I won't build him on Hill near two gold, but Jungle directly SE--scratch that, it's a mountain. I build on Hill. Newcastle is built, I order up Warrior.
I drop Science to 70% and still get Math in 2, but we're gaining 5(!)gpt (extra commerce power from Newcastle).


Turn 9 -- 1525 BC
<Haley Joel Osmont>I see Barbarians</Haley Joel Osmont>
Our people want to build the Forbidden Palace. Good for them.
Nottingham produces Settler, orders up Settler (I love Settler factories). He heads West.
We disperse Assyrian encampment and get 25 gold.
I have to raise science to 80% to get Math in 1 turn (Nottingham spawning Settler dropped our commerce allotment), but we're still getting 3 gpt. Our treasury is at 103 gold.

Turn 10 -- 1550 BC
Some victorious Warriors...and a New Color! Gentlemen, I have found the French! Haw-haw-haw!
We complete Mathematics, and I order up Philosophy, as I'm still living under the "we need Republic" credo (I should TM that as well).
I play a mean nasty trick on old Joan. I sell her Contact with the Russians for 10 gold--her whole treasury. There's a Russian scout two tiles away from the French Warrior. Hee hee hee.
We are 5 techs ahead of the French, and they only have 3 cities.
Well I'll be, a 1-tile landbridge SW of Russia that leads to French lands.

Ok, some end-of-turn cleanup. I raise Science to 90% to save 2 turns on Philosophy at a cost of 1gpt.
4 Techs ahead of Russia, dont know Germans, have 4 cities, no gold
3 Techs ahead of Germany, don't know anyone, have 3 cities, 25 gold
2 techs ahead of China, they only know the Russians, have 5 cities, 25 gold
3 techs ahead of Babs, they only know the Russians, have 5 cities, 0 gold

We could trade for the 25 gold from either Germany or China, but why? We have a nice treasury (116 gold) and a sweet Tech lead.

The SE settler in my save was going to move 1 square SE and build there, giving the city plenty of Gems and shielded grasslands.
London settler (when built)was to head directly S of fish in lake (SE of London), and Hastings Settler (when built) was to go in the Valley near the Gems.
Not sure where I was going to place dude W of Nottingham.


Here's the save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/prod-shadow-chrth-1500bc.zip
 
IT 1750BC: Trade Contact with Russia, Babs, to China for Iron Working. Swap York to barracks.

1725BC: Scout spots new barb camp south of Canterbury. Nottingham worker moves to tile west of town to build a road.

1700BC: Rearrange tiles between York and London, after London grows to 3. Worker near Hastings starts chopping a forest.

1675BC: Canterbury warrior trained as settler passes through on way south, accompanies settler, start training another warrior.

1650BC: London finishes settler, starts spearman. York finishes barracks, regains bg tile for full food growth rate, and starts spearman. London settler and spearman head south. Science dropped to 80% (have to pay for the new barracks). Barbarian has appeared NW of nottingham.

1625BC: Warrior at Nottingham follows new road out of town to attack barbarians, promotes to Vet! One pop pulled off work duty at Nottingham and turned into tax collector, to prevent riots. This will not slow settler production but will slow food growth by one turn (two food lost per turn for two turns).

1600BC: Spot French warrior in SW. Scout positioned on choke point to prevent French exploration on our side of the choke, and cut off contact between French and other civs we know. Warrior in same area spots barb camp. Will move him to the choke after he clears the camp. Vet warrior near Nottingham moves onto hill and spots barb camp. Warrior SW of London moves into attack position next to barb camp. My Nottingham deal from last turn will be disrupted, I'll either have to run some lux or slow the settler by TWO turns. I'm going to run the lux, starting next turn. York worker moves to plains to irrigate another good tile.

1575BC: Coventry founded on lake south of Canterbury, starts worker. Warrior just south of there clears a barb camp, losing 1 hp. Warrior near choke fortifies, as that barb camp just produced another warrior. Let that one attack across the river, then move across the river into attack position, then clear camp. Using cash from camp clearing, embassy established with France. Joanie has three wines and is not that far away. Sell her RoP for her 10 gold. Hastings produces settler, starts spearman (because the forest will be chopped, so a warrior would be a waste of the forest). Lux to 20% at cost of 4gpt for two turns, to put the Nottingham taxman back to work and shave a turn off the settler PLUS save one turn of food. Hastings settler and current spearman heading five tiles SE to the shore, to pick up some of the gems.

1550BC: Road to dyes completed! Lux reduced back to zero. Canterbury completes warrior, starts temple. York completes vet spear, starts another. Vet warrior NW of Nottingham clears camp, loses one hp. Warrior near France chokepoint crosses river into attack position. Warwick founded south of London, on hill along river, with game in radius but not immediate range, starts temple. Science to 60% for one turn, as math due next turn. Hastings tiles swapped to max food, governor beheaded. ;)

1525BC: London finishes spearman, starts settler. Nottingham finishes settler, starts another (will send this undefended town a vet spear from York soon). Nottingham settler sent WEST along road toward Moscow, to expand our border in that direction. Warrior south of Coventry recovers from his wounds, heads SW to park on the Iron, which would be a grand location for another city. Warrior near France choke clears barb camp, barely, down to 1 hp and no promotion, must rest. Math discovered! Science back to 90% at 1gpt deficit, Literature in ten turns.

1500BC: Settler west of Nottingham moves into settlement position, along the north shore of the central sea. South warrior moves onto the iron. Sell China contact with Germany for 25G. Sell Germany contact with Russia for 25G. GIVE contact with Germany to Babs, they are now polite. All civs near us now know one another, except for France, which I have cut off from the rest of the continent at the choke point.



At the end of my turn, settler west of Nottingham is on the spot I like, the white circle. Settler SE of Hastings is headed for Yellow Dot. That leaves only Purple Dot as a good location to match up with the rest of my settlment pattern.

Here's hoping the official turn went well this round!


- Sirian
 
1750BC: Trading tech away not a good deal here. On higher difficulty, contact would already have happened. Here, it's about to, one way or another. Now's the time to make the most of it, you could trade contact between Russia and Babs to China for the tech and keep them from advancing on the tech tree a bit longer. I won't call this weedy, but even in diplomacy, what can wait should wait. Giving away tech can wait. How much longer contact can wait remains to be seen. I'll see how the rest of your turn goes.

1725BC: Excellent destination for York settler!

1675BC: Move the city a tile south?? :smoke: It's in a GOOD location already. Check the settlement pattern in my shadow turn, which leaves only a couple jungle wasted. Also, pulling this kind of severe veto in any SG should only be done if the move you want to change was mind-numbingly bad, as you'll cause friction with the team with overdoing vetos. That city is actually right where I would have put it! I just would have used a different settler to put it there, and later, since that location is rather unproductive and also not in much danger of being grabbed by rivals.

1650BC: Good destination for London settler.

1575BC: Excellent destination for Hastings settler. I'd give you an A+ on settlement plans for this turn, except I'm wondering what you were smoking :smoke: when you decided to move Canterbury one tile. :)

1525BC: See, selling contacts worth about 30g for 10g. Plus the AI's will trade contact so that all are known, so contact with the Babs now also going to China whether you sell it or not. You could have saved the tech and traded these contacts at the inherited turn, for Iron Working. (On the up side, at least you did get Iron Working then).

Also, here, you seem to have no urgency to plug up the choke point. This is missing a huge opportunity to contain France and slow ALL of the AI's.

1500BC: While we need more workers, producing them from a slow-food city with plenty of good tiles to be working now is not the best choice. Bad enough you let the settler there finish (at least getting that flood plain city going sooner is a worthwhile tradeoff). You could let some of the faster growing cities PUMP OUT the workers rapidly soon enough, and keep York going on high shields. Oh well.


Overall Grade: A-

:goodjob: count: Five. (Homeland defense, 4x New City locations)
:smoke: count: Two. (York deprivation, Canterbury relocation plan)


- Sirian
 
Here's hoping the official turn went well this round!

Hotrod

P.S. I don't know if I did all the right things but at first glance comparing my turn "official" to the others I hope there are no major :smoke: or [pimp] :lol: !
 
1750BC: Did you check diplomacy on the inherited turn? No mention of potential iron working deal with China.

1675BC: Yes, London can at this point alternate spearman/settler in a continuously renewing cycle every ten turns. If the settler is hurried by two turns, the cycle can also be warrior/settler, but at this point I was doing spear/settler also.

1650BC: Your settler destination tile IS on fresh water, but with limited potential longer term and more overlap with Ninevah. If your intent is to pressure and flip Ninevah, that's possible. On higher difficulty, that would be rather dangerous, you'd have to commit a lot of resources to making sure the whole civ has strong culture and this city in particular has more culture than Ninevah. The tile one E is a hills that loses fresh water but gains a defense bonus, more room, still pressures Ninevah some but can get its full 21 tile radius, matches up better with what lies to the east and south, and pulls more total food potential into range. Sometimes you have to know when to give up fresh water or short term potential for a longer view. The choice you made isn't bad, but it's not that strong either, in my view.

1575BC: Excellent location for Coventry. Starting a settler? Too soon. The city is undefended with barbs all over the place, and workers could improve the land quickly to speed growth on those flood plains, which if irrigated reach 4 food, or 3 under despotism. Plus the low shield rate is just maddening at a city like this. A worker could help connect it up faster, possibly lowering corruption by one shield. Either warrior or worker, or even temple, would be better choices for a project here.

Your Warwick location is not good, and this move alone has a great deal of negative impact on the future of our civ in that region. It's good in and of itself, in that makes for a good city in its own right. However, it matches very poorly with the rest of the settlement pattern. The tiles between it and your Newcastle will either go to waste, or require a half-city to claim them, with MUCH overlap. When planning your cities, you have to balance a whole range of factors to try to come out with the best overall result. Your choice here is high on ultimate food but skips claiming valuable hill and mountain tiles. You can check my shadow turn report for a more evenly spaced layout that still makes use of that lake for one city, but leaves room for the city due S of London to be stronger. You can also check Rowain's shadow for another sort of layout that meets the criteria of best-use-of-land along with attention to fresh water, for an overall solid balance.

1550BC: I like your Nottingham plans with the temple and worker coordination. :goodjob:

York building settlers? Needs a granary first if you want to be doing that. The one you let it build already this turn was OK, because there was prime real estate nearby to grab, but in my turn I vetoed even that one and went back to Barracks. There are several high food cities that can crank settlers and workers. We need a high shield city with barracks to help our military situation stabilize by training a slew of vet spears. These warriors we have all over will be good for MP duty and pressure stabilizers and blockades and any number of other "need a warm body" tasks, but we can't sit on them forever for actual defense. York would be a great choice to leave on high population and high shields to work on that side of our civ. If you expand with settlers faster than your military production rate, and end up with undefended cities and a lowish unit count, that's when the AI's who are aggressive in the ancient era and/or have run out of their own expansion room may launch surprise attacks.

1525BC: Literature selected for next project! :goodjob:

1500BC: Choke blockade!


Overall Grade: B

:goodjob: count: Four. (Workers, Blockade, Research, Coventry Location)
:smoke: count: One. (Warwick Location)


- Sirian
 
1750BC: Good deal with China. You missed a chance to give away contact with China to Babs, though, who will get it from Russia now anyway. Babs have nothing, but the gift would improve our rep and relations. In my turn, I kept the tech and traded both contacts, which isn't necessarily better. Looking back, your way plus the gift to Babs might have been best.

1700BC: Roading the forest at Hastings not the best move. That city lacks for food tiles, need to chop down some vegetation, then worry about the roads. And, as it turns out, you started chopping next. Roads take longer through forest than grass. Save three worker turns by chopping first.

1650BC: Your settler choice south of London is the spot I originally liked. The situation has changed, since the settling of Canterbury. Looking ahead, I now like the tile one NE of your choice better. Your spot still good, but not as good relative to where the NEXT city will go, over to the west by that lake somewhere. In this regard, perhaps, my initial preference for the same tile you choose was shortsighted. I liked it at the time for getting the game going immediately, but it does waste several tiles and crowds another future city location. On my current turn I chose differently (check it out).

As for France, you gave up a cheap tech. Not bad, since they'd get it anyway if they make contact with other civs. Ah, but you could prevent that by blockading the choke point. This is a crucial and fully honorable/legitimate tactic that can make a tremendous difference in slowing the AI's and improving your broker position. It won't last much past mapmaking since AI's will build ships and go around, but squeeze what you can while you can. I was very pleased with Zot when he spotted this in his shadow. You could also buy an embassy and get her gold for RoP (essentially for free) and not hand over the tech.

1625BC: AI's making demands? What do they think this is, Deity?? You should have told him to take a hike. If he wants a piece of the action, military, that would be Choosing Unwisely!

1575BC: Good move on spending the cash before taking a pillaging.

1550BC: 6g lost? Yeah, what could you do? (NUMBER SIX! WHY DID YOU RESIGN?) ;)

1500BC: Currency? That would be a great choice if we were running zero science and trailing AI's in tech on higher difficulty and buying tech at deflated prices. As a tech leader on lower difficulty, Markets can wait while Libraries are needed now. This was not a good choice for our situation.

Your worker actions are all good, except for one thing. You've got nobody working on further improvements to London's good tiles. Those aren't urgently needed, but at the moment not much of anything any more is urgently needed. You have some time yet for London to be doing more settlers, and it could produce its own workers in future, but at some point here you want to get into high gear for population explosion at London, and that means bringing irrigation down to those dry plains tiles. You should at least have skipped the mining with the slave worker and used him to start roading up those plains in preparation for other workers to come along and quickly irrigate. We won't be able to afford using the iron tile until either happiness is being strained badly (20% lux won't cut it) or we swap governments and can irrigate grass to bring in more food. Population is power and we will ultimately pull in many more shields by growing quickly than by working that hills too soon. You see?

Forbidden Palace is about corruption management, and our capital is so centrally located, a good choice for FP may still be premature at this point. Certainly nothing yet settled is a candidate location, in my view.

Finally, that caving in to Babylon. It's not automatically bad to cave in (in fact, on Deity, it's automatically bad NOT to do so, or even to get into a position where you can be robbed of a valuable tech or contact through a demand) but on this low difficulty, you definitely want to consider what you are being asked to give up. In this case, Contact with France means contact between France and ALL the other civs. That could be stopped with a blockade at the choke point. I'm VERY glad this blunder didn't take place on the official turn. This demand was a bad break on your turn and may have resulted from the luck seed coming up different from your choices using a different number of seeds. That kind of thing is out of your hands, but war with the Babs would be more to their detriment than ours, since we could well run them over if necessary, and if we ended up doing so, we'd get all their lands and that would be the answer to your FP question. :)


Overall Grade: B-

:goodjob: count: Two. (Coventry location, Warwick location)
:smoke: count: (Currency too soon, Caving to AI demand)


- Sirian
 
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