PROD Shadow - Sirian's TDG "Alternate Timelines"

[ChrTh]

ChrTh's 3000-2550bc Shadow Turn

Turn 0 -- 3000 BC
I fix London so that the Granary will be built a turn before it grows

Turn 1 -- 2950 BC
London completes Granary. I order up Warrior for MP and protection.
E scout finds..Red Border (I think it's Babylon)
W scout...Seljuk tribe teaches us The Wheel...there's a horse just NW of the nearby dyes...there's one further West, and one right next to Moscow.
We're losing 1gpt, but I keep science at 100% anyhow.

Turn 2 -- 2900 BC
Warrior moves back into York to defend.
W Scout finds a light blue border...it must the Americans...

Turn 3 -- 2850 BC
DAMN DAMN DAMN! I forgot to check London after it grew, and now it's in Unrest.
York completes Worker, starts Scout.
I raise luxury to 10% to get London out of Unrest (Stupid Stupid Stupid)..hopefully the Warrior being built next turn will allow me to drop it back to 0%.
The Bulgar tribe teaches us Iron Working! There is Iron on the Hill directly W of London!
London finishes Warrior, and I'm able to drop Lux down to 0%. I order up Settler, and it'll finish when London grows (5 turns each).
Not the Americans! It's the Chinese (you'd think I would've recognized the border since I'm playing the Chinese in my other Training Day game)
I meet the Babylonians...we are WAY AHEAD (5!) of them in Tech. They have nothing to trade, so I don't trade with them.

Turn 4 -- 2800 BC
I meet the Chinese..we are also 5 techs ahead of them. They have nothing of value.

Turn 5 -- 2750 BC
ZzzZzz

Turn 6 -- 2710 BC
ZzzZzz

Turn 7 -- 2670 BC
ZzzZzz

Turn 8 -- 2630 BC
York produces Scout, I set York to Warrior. York's growing slowly, but only because London is using a shielded plain. Once London builds Settler next turn, I'll give square back to York.

Turn 9 -- 2590 BC
London completes Settler, set to Warrior (my plan is to build two warriors, and then a Worker, which will coincide to London growing back to 3).
I give York the better spot to help it grow.
We were losing 2gpt, so I drop Science to 80% to break even.

Turn 10 -- 2550 BC
The Hun tribe teaches us Mysticism!
Settler is heading West to find a good spot by the cow.

I see a potential ...I should've sent my new Scout W to clear out the blackness by the cow, so that the Settler could go straight where he needs to go rather than possibly fumbling about for a few turns.

Here's the save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/prod-shadow-chrth-2550bc.zip

 

[ChrTh]

Hey Sirian,

I apologize for my game...I rushed through it so that it would be done on time, and as a result..Oy! I have an excellent idea of where I went wrong (especially after reading everyone else's report), so don't spend too much time analyzing it

I'll do better next turn, ubetcha.

 

[hotrod0823]

How soon can we start round #4?

Looking forward to the critiques and the start of round 4.

I am hoping that I will be able to play round 4 today but it looks like we are still waiting for one shadow turn, or are we?

Hotrod

Hope this game continues, I think even my solo games are improving.

 

[Sirian]

No, not waiting. I got my shadow turn posted but am late with the critiques. Mother's Day weekend and other priorities took root, but I'll get them done today and the next round will start.

- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

2900BC: You MM'ed the tile to give it to London, but if you had done this right away, you'd have shaved a turn off the worker at no cost, as well as buying one turn for everything else produced out of York later. See my report for details.

2850BC: Iron Working! Nice bit of fortune there. I had worse luck with the huts on my turn.

2710BC: Scouting with a settler? Maybe for farmer's gambit, but we do have a warrior in the area. (I was late to think of this myself, but did see it two turns ahead of the settler completion and that was in time to make fully informed decisions about where to settle). You want to move settlers directly to the new city sites and found, not wander around peeking into fog.

2630BC: Judgement call on the tech deal. How soon will they make contact? Russia is expansionist and has scouts wandering around, and on higher difficulty in particular, AI's contact one another sooner with all their free units spreading out to explore. This was a good trade in that it's a safe bet, although I opted not to make it myself on my turn.

2550BC: Moving to connect the iron? Only if you plan to attack and soon. Remember, what can wait, should wait! As soon as you connect the iron you expose it to random redistribution. Besides, the starting cities do not have enough good tiles to work yet, and the luxury is not online yet. Both of those are higher priority than iron UNLESS you're going to make immediate use of the iron to form up an attack force. Training another worker helps a lot, but the iron is still too soon in this situation.


Overall Grade: B-

count: Two. (Scouting, MP unit)
count: Two. (Iron, Scouting with Settler)


- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

2900BC: Horseback Riding? Rowain had better luck with the huts, too. In comparing to my turn, my deal to trade for tech on the inherited turn used up a random seed and stuck me into a less productive run of luck for the huts. Sometimes it's worse to be good than lucky. But them's the breaks. It could easily have gone the other way, with those of you NOT making that deal getting the bad run of luck, and me with the deal in hand getting a good run and popping out Iron Working, Mysticism, etc. Still, this does go to show that luck can play a factor in the game.

2850BC: Like Rowain, you missed a chance to shave a turn off this worker at York, which would have had to be done by swapping tiles on the inherited turn.

2670BC: Scouting with settler?

Cranking another settler out right away is a good move. Is it the best move? Debatable, but could be. The up side is city four coming sooner, the down side is London stuck with 3 shields per turn and less commerce per turn, for four turns, at size 1, but then, food is the limiter on settler production, not shields, so this is the fastest way to found cities. I went this route in GOTM7 and it worked out.

2550BC: More mines? Where? Need to chop down some forest to open more tiles, or irrigate the plains. York is way off from completing a temple, so it will be a while before it pulls more tiles into its range. You want to work the best tiles, but may also need to work tiles that are already in range, to speed the temple construction so the other tiles can be accessed.


Overall grade: B

count: Three. (Scouting, MP unit, London management)
count: One. (Scouting with settler)


- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

2950BC: Fogbusting with with the warrior! Go Zot go! Better moves than even I made!

2900BC: Oopsie. Second guessed yourself, mislabeled your excellent exploration move as weed, and undid it, leaving you stuck with neither the benefit of the exploration nor the MP unit in position. Sometimes you have to trust your gut and not worry about what someone else would think. You had the right idea for that warrior in the first place, and could use a few lux taxes to cover London in the mean time. Ah well, live and learn.

2850BC: Interesting round of trading. Trading same tech to all other civs on same turn is THE way to go with tech trading, to ensure you get the most benefit when you do make a trade.

On the other hand, you too missed the chance to MM York on the inherited turn to shave a turn off that worker. Complete explanation on the hows and whys of this in my shadow report.

2710BC: London size 1, grow in 3 turns? Not sure what happened to you in there, but this should not have happened. When your cities grow, the pathetic automanager may often make weedy decisions about which tiles to work. I presume that this happened at some point and you didn't zoom in to correct it. You were on track for the first A- I was going to hand out, but this is bordering on a disastrous oversight here. More of these would lead to a dramatic dip in your growth curve.

Now that I think about it, it sounds like you left the second grassland tile in York's control, forcing London to work a forest tile at size 3. Ack! OK? Ack!

2630BC: Still giving York priority on tiles? That makes sense in this particular instance, since London has already been stuck at size 1 and will not need the third tile for a while, but it also puts you on a collision course for another food shortage for London, further slowing its growth. You really have to pay attention when there is overlap and tiles are shared. Overlap doesn't have to be a problem, but can be disastrous if you let automated governors do all the work. They invariably get it wrong.

2590BC: Some good thinking in dealing with the situation at this point, so that's something positive.

2550BC: Mining the iron? Too early in this situation. See my remarks to Rowain.

Your map link is broken, so I can't see the dotmap. Yes, if a city is founded on a resource, the resource is automatically connected, since the city gets a free road (and railroad, once those are around).


Overall Grade: D+

count: Two. (Good multi-civ tech trade, Scouting).
count: Four. (City tile mismanagement counts as three, Iron too soon)


- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

3000BC: Everyone, it seems, passed up checking on diplomacy on the inherited turn, or at least saw no deals worth making. In single player, you'll know what's up, but in SG's always a good time to do diplomacy at the beginning, and ending, of your turns.

My deal for the Wheel may actually have set me back in my game, based on degrading my goody hut luck, but I'd still make the same trade again with the Germans in the same situation on the inherited turn, knowing what is available to know in the save file (where Babs and China had not been discovered yet).

You also missed the chance to shave a turn off the York worker while avoiding tile collision with London in the process (see what happened on Zot's turn when he missed this one down the line).

2950BC: Moving the warrior back to York to defend, and training one at London, is not a bad plan. It does delay the settler for town three by two turns, though, and... as it turns out, by three turns, since you pulled a Civ2 move of relying on completion of a project to save you from going into unrest.

2850BC: Lost a turn of production out of London?? Weed indeed.

Overlooking an unhappy city at a later point in the game is well understandable, but right here in the opening there's no excuse for it. With just a couple of cities to manage, you have to pay close attention to them. Mistakes now get magnified manyfold in their impact down the line.

2590BC: A worker out of London? That's creative, and you seem to have planned it well. It will slow settlement expansion by a bit, but the extra worker MAY even put you ahead of the curve if it's used to get Good Tiles online in the starting cities much more quickly.

2550BC: Yes, busting the fog before sending out settlers would be good, especially since you had the units there to do it.

You offered no comment on your worker actions, so I can't grade you there.


Overall Grade: B-

count: Three. (City tile micromanagement, London worker plan, Scouting)
count: Two. (Scouting with Settler, Civil Revolt)


- Sirian

 

[Mardoc]

I will have a busy day tomorrow, and I am traveling from Wednesday through Sunday the 19. I will not play or post from now until at least the 20th, at which point I will pick up the active game and finally get caught up.

Sorry,
Mardoc

 

[hotrod0823]

(0) 2550 BC: Check neighbors again still ahead in tech, no trades, want to wait for writing to see if they have made contact yet. - Concerned about no MP's in London or York?

(1) 2510 BC: South Scout - Head west to "Fogarea", really old CT Joke
Worker #1: Roads
Worker #2: West toward city 3 local, cattle looks prime for a mine
Worker #3:See worker #2
NW Warrior head to city 3 location for protection
Settler founds Nottingham in current spot work the cattle for quick growth, once mines are built will be as productive as the horse and game tiles but more food. Growth in 5, warrior in 10
N Scout: NW, N see villiage
NE Scout: NW, N see wheat

(2) 2470 BC: London completes settler starts warrior - MPs for London
Settler follows road toward York
Worker #1 to York in direction of Dyes
Worker #2&#3 toward Nottingham
NE Warrior N to check out the fog
N Scout: N N to villiage and gets a warrior
S Warrior : West
Change York to more "Own Mine" more gold

(3) 2430 BC: S Scout : W see dyes
N Scout: N, NE
N Warrior NE
NE scout: N
Worker moves onto dyes by York
Worker #2&#3 toward Nottingham onto cattle for mines then roads

(4) 2390 BC: Settler moves east, conscript warrior moves south to future location of city #4 near gold, river and wheat
N Scout: North, warrior follows
S Scout: SW sees barbs
NE Scout: NE moves next to hidden barbs -

(5) 2350 BC: NE scout :slay:
N Scout: NE,NE see more ice, Warrior follows
S Scout: W
(6) 2310 BC: London builds warrior and fortifies, starts spearman, will most likely change to settler soon
Settler moves SE toward home of city #4
N Scout : NE,NE sees villiage
S Scout : W on the run away from barbs

(7) 2270 BC: Settler builds city Number 4 - Hastings working wheat start worker in (10)N Scout : Learn Mysticism
S Scout: N from Barbs

(8) 2230 BC: Nottingham finished warrior starts settler
London switched to Settler - 4/4
Writing in 1 turn change slider to 70% with +4 gold,
Worker #1 sent East to complete road
Worker #2 sent to city to get to horse tile
(9) 2190 BC: Writing finish start Polythesism , no need for Iron yet I think Monarchy is the way to go to promote growth over military, no other civ is showing any strength, IW can wait IMO. My second choice would be LIT if we were going for GL.
Worker #1 roads
Worker #2 sent to Horses for Roads then Mines
Warrior sent to York for MPs
S - scout running E from Barbs
N - scout with Warrior heading E

(10) 2150 BC: Worker Road horses, warrior toward York, N-scout/Warrior North or Germany

Trades: Germany still lacks Masonry so if I trade my "commications" with Germany to anyone then they will give up there 15 gold so I trade Masonry to Germany for 15 gold.
Russians: Trade communication with Germany for 42 gold - Russia at (0 gold)
Babs: Trade communications with Germany for 10 gold Babs at (0 gold)
China: is so far behind and doesn't have any gold

So we are have all the gold Russia , Germany, Babs, and China all have 0.

Summary:
City: London [2]
Building: Settler [2]
Growth: [2]
Tiles: 2 mines
Next move: finish settler then warrior for protection of the new city

City: York [2]
Building: Temple [7]
Growth: [9]
Tiles: mines - 1 borrowed Next move: finish temple build worker, must clear that jungle

City: Nottingham [2]
Building: Settler [8]
Growth: [8]
Tiles: Horses, Cattle
Next move: finish settler, start temple to pickup bonus grasslands and wheat, could be a great producer of workers and settlers

City: Hastings [1]
Building: Worker [7] must clear that jungle
Growth: [2]
Tiles: Wheat and soon to be forest
Next move: Worker then possibly another worker

Research set to Polytheism for reasons discussed above, set to 17 turns -1gpt.


Hotrod Shadow 2150BC

 

[Zot]

Originally posted by Sirian
2710BC: London size 1, grow in 3 turns? Not sure what happened to you in there, but this should not have happened. When your cities grow, the pathetic automanager may often make weedy decisions about which tiles to work. I presume that this happened at some point and you didn't zoom in to correct it. You were on track for the first A- I was going to hand out, but this is bordering on a disastrous oversight here. More of these would lead to a dramatic dip in your growth curve.

Now that I think about it, it sounds like you left the second grassland tile in York's control, forcing London to work a forest tile at size 3. Ack! OK? Ack!

- Sirian [/B]

The reason London is a size 1 in 2710BC is that a settler was built (started on my first turn - 2950BC). At that time I had also switched the grassland back to London. Should I have worked on something else and let London go bigger than 3? Is that the problem? Perhaps I need to be more obvious with my descriptions and try not to tell a story so much. The text for 2710BC says: "London finishes gathering settlers and is now size 1. But will grow in 3 turns." This means that London finished building a settler and is now size 1.

 

[ChrTh]

ChrTh's 2550-2150BC Shadow Turn

Turn 0 -- 2550 BC
Well, How do I improve an 'A'? I'm tempted to just hit ENTER, but I'll look over the situation anyway
Well, Russia needs The Wheel...Germans need Masonry...China needs Alphabet, The Wheel, and Ceremonial Burial...and Babylon needs Alphabet and The Wheel. I decide to trade Masonry to Germany (we're not allowed to build the Pyramids anyhow, so it shouldn't hurt us) for 15 gold (their treasury). China and Babylon are broke, and I ain't giving the Russians what is essentially a military tech.

London set to build Settler in 2...I like Sirian's idea of the S hill (with 2 Gold nearby it'll become a production powerhouse by the end of the middle ages)...so I think I'll send him there (it'll also be a great fortress against Babylon if they attack early, as it's amidst Jungles and Mountains)

In terms of Military, I'm going to have E Warrior move N to reveal the Flood Plainish-area, then W to fortify York. W Warrior will be sent to fortify about-to-be-built city. After London is done with Settler I'm going to build at least 1 Warrior.

I'll be moving S Scout W to explore that nearby Jungle, while N Scout will probably move N around China (I know that that's not close to us, but we've more or less exhausted the immediate area). I may add another Scout from London, but I'll see.

I check to make sure everyone's Happy....well, they ain't happy, but at least they're Content.


Turn 1 -- 2510 BC
S Scout moves W (can't move 2 spaces anyhow, surrounded by restrictive terrain)...to reveal a Barbarian...I'll be avoiding him. (I expect Babylon to take care of him)
Worker 1 completes Road. Worker 2 goes NE to build Road to Dye. I micromanage York to get it on New Improved Square (giving it an extra Commerce)...now they're we're connected to London, we're no longer losing any shields to Corruption, reducing time to build Temple to 19 turns (time to grow 8 turns). Worker 3 goes NW...I'm going to try to Irrigate this square (York is going to have growth issues).
Nottingham is founded...since it's going to grow in 7, I set it to build Worker in 10 (I'm also going to move Worker 1 over there)
Warriors move as described above.
Ah, here's the other scout (I thought that there was one more)...I'll call him E Scout. He'll be exploring N, then W around Germany. I move him NW-N.
N Scout moves NW-W.

Turn 2 -- 2470 BC
London builds Settler, I order up Warrior.
Barbarians are afoot near S Scout...I rethink my Settler strategy (there are no escorts about)...S Scout will have to move suboptimally as well.
Worker 1 moves W. I'm going to have him build the Road in this square, simply as a convenience factor; the first square worked for Nottingham is going to be Cow anyhow, so might as well connect it since it'll require only one extra R order.
Worker 2 moves NE to Dye square. Worker 3...can irrigate! So he does.
Warriors again move as described above.
E Scout moves N-N to reveal some pretty nice real estate. N Scout moves N. S Scout moves N (evasive maneuvers).
And the Settler...well, I've been putting it off for the turn, now I need to decide where to send him. Ok, this will probably earn the epitath ChrTh's Folly, but I send the Settler to...East of York, on the Hill square immediately W of Wheat on Flood Plain and S of Gold. I don't think it'll grow very fast until we clear out the Jungle (the Flood Plain/Wheat is sweet...but I'm not sure how long it can sustain us). Warrior that was getting ready to head back to York is instead going to head towards Settler's new City.

Turn 3 -- 2430 BC
S Scout moves W.
Worker 1 starts road, Worker 2 starts road.
N Scout moves NE-NE...the Angle tribe has taught us Mysticism!
E Scout moves N.
Warriors move as indicated.
I do a quick check of the old diplomacy...nothing new, and there's nothing of value to trade for Mysticism (and some cultures don't even have Ceremonial Burial!)

Turn 4 -- 2390 BC
S Scout moves NW.
Warrior fortifies in Nottingham.
N Scout moves E-N.
E Scout sees...Barbarian Camp! Right next to him! He skedaddles W-W.

Turn 5 -- 2350 BC
E Scout heads S-S...Germans have Horses right next to Leipzig.
N Scout moves N-E.
S Scout moves W.

Turn 6 -- 2310 BC
London builds Warrior...I order another Warrior.
Worker 1 moves W to cow.
Worker 3 completes Irrigation, begins Road.
Hastings built! Worker ordered (grows in 5). Warrior arrived in spot last turn, fortifies immediately.
S Scout moves S.
E Scout moves S-S.
N Scout moves W-W...dag, it's a bay to the W, so I have to go back around it....since West is close to China, and the finding of a Goody Hut indicates that no exploration has happened here, I'm going to get this Scout moving E again and finish up the area.

Turn 7 -- 2270 BC
Hrmmm...the Babylonians are encroaching northward. I wish I had sent that Settler S before, but I didn't want to risk it for the Barbarians (or wait for an escort). Next settler should definitely head to that S hill, though (hopefully the Babylonians won't get there first).
Yikes, there be Barbarians all over the place! N Scout moves E-E to avoid. E Scout moves S-S (as he races through the explored area)
Worker 1 starts irrigating Cow.
S Scout moves S....and sees a Barbarian Camp! RUN AWAY!
There's also a Barbarian approaching Nottingham...I head London's Warrior towards Nottingham and release Nottingham's Warrior to kill said Barbarian and destroy the area from whence he came.

Turn 8 -- 2230 BC
London finishes Warrior, I order up Settler. I'll send this Warrior with the Settler to S Hill betwixt two Gold.
Our Warrior beats the Barbarian, and is now a Veteran! But he's hurt, so I'll rest him a turn before sending him after the Barbarians.
E Scout moves SW-S.
N Scout moves N-E to open up a Goody Hut...the Magyar camp is abandoned. Bastards!
S Scout goes SW-SW and hopes that the Barbarian Camp doesn't go after him next turn...

Turn 9 -- 2190 BC
Writing is learned...since my goal is still The Republic, I order up Code of Laws...due in 16 turns.
ACK! ... I forgot to finagle the rates the last couple turns. Oy!
Nottingham builds Worker, set to Worker. Worker moves East to help get the cow online.
Warrior moves into Nottingham and fortifies; other Warrior rests.
York once again steals a spot from London, but I let them keep it until London grows (at which point I'll give York the irrigated tile).
Worker 3 is done with Road...and moves Due South to Irrigate. That square isn't in the border (will be when York grows), but I'd like to get some of those plains irrigated for London as well, so he's just going to work his way south for the next couple tiles.
E Scout goes SE-SE
N Scout goes E
S Scout was ignored by the barbarians! [dance] He goes S-W.

Turn 10 -- 2150 BC
E Scout goes SE-SE
Worker 3 begins Irrigation.
Mostly healed Warrior goes W to find Barbarian Camp.
S Scout goes W-W
N Scout goes NW
Worker 4 begins Irrigation on Cow, finishing it for Worker 1. Worker 1 starts Road.
I quit the game before remembering to check Diplomacy, so I give a big SHOUT OUT to the next player to check when they start

Here's the Save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/prod-shadow-chrth-2150bc.zip

 

[Sirian]

At that time I had also switched the grassland back to London. Should I have worked on something else and let London go bigger than 3? Is that the problem?

No, Zot, that is not the problem. When your London grew to size 3, you had it working two grassland tiles and one forest. If you had had it working three grassland tiles, the settler would finish at the same time, but there would be more total food.

In my game, I too built a settler right after the granary, but my city was due to grow again to size 2 the next turn. Here's the quote from my report:

2710BC: London produces settler, drops to size 1 but due to grow again next turn.

Somewhere in there, your London stopped pulling in maximum food rate and you didn't notice or didn't do anything about it. You came up short on food, and that has to be because your city was working tiles that bring in less food.

Do you understand now? Would it help you if you replayed the turn far enough to see, inside the game, what I am talking about?

If you trust the city governor to manage your tiles and to assign tiles to new population when the city grows, he'll screw you every time. In the beginning of the game in particular, little details like this have a big effect. Later on, you may not be able to keep track of every city every turn, or may not care to put in that much attention, but it's still a good idea on a regular basis to run through your towns and check for automated weedage. Those city governors are full blown crackheads.


- Sirian

 

[hotrod0823]

I see a discussion in Sulla's game about irrigation vs. mine of cattle and or wheat. I mined the cattle for the extra shield because I hate like hell to give up the food for shields if I used the game tile. By mining the cattle I would make the improvements sooner and continue to get the benifit of the food. Yes this is all mute once the city grows then the other more productive tiles will get worked next. But if we use this city to build settlers the city will be back at 1 or 2 as quickly as it grew to 3 or 4.

So here is my question, is a cattle or wheat tile an automatic, no brainer for irrigation and is mining the cattle ? Also on the note of faster growth with these tiles being irrigated, isn't irrigation under despotism useless? Granted we will not be a despot forever but later in the game the tile can be changed in few turns with a gang of workers.

Hotrod

 

[LKendter]

Originally posted by hotrod0823
Also on the note of faster growth with these tiles being irrigated, isn't irrigation under despotism useless? Granted we will not be a despot forever but later in the game the tile can be changed in few turns with a gang of workers.

Hotrod

NO! Despot reduces the value of a tile by 1 food and 1 shield if producing 3+ of those categories.

Grassland cattle - will get 4 food. This is an great place for a settler / worker factory. Oh, a killer wonder city as it can use 2 hills and still have 2 food spare.


I don't have the game with me to remember the exact numbers. However, Wheat (grasslands and floodplains) also go to 3+ food.


A rule I learned with workering tiles - Never set a 100% rule like irrigation worthless under depositism. One I saw - mine shieled grassland - irragate the rest. The rule for how to use tiles - examine the needs of the city. Also, after rails - check the city again.

 

[Sirian]

Hotrod: with some exceptions, the limiting factor on how quickly you can produce settlers out of a city is food. This is the WHOLE REASON we built the granary in London: to trade shields (60 of them) and commerce (1 gpt) for food, doubling the rate thereafter that we can produce new workers or settlers, as well as grow larger and pull in what will ultimately be way more shields than we spent.

A city with all flood plains, a few desert/hills/mountains could see shields as the limiter, but those situations are rare, and even then you can only irrigate the flood plains anyway.

LK's got it right: under despotism, there is loss of one of anything from any tile bringing in 3+. This is not a flat cap of 2 on any tile, but rare is the tile that can bring in 4+ of anything. Rare, but it happens. Flood plains bring in 3 food, 4 if irrigated, so under despotism, 3 becomes 2 or 4 becomes 3.

Always irrigate the food bonus tiles if you can, at least the first two. If your city has three or more cattle/wheat then you might mine some of them and increase your options.


- Sirian

 

[hotrod0823]

So irrigation will bring that extra food even under despotisim +4 food and will grow the city faster okay!! I thought the extra work of irrigation was wasted so I choose to mine. My bad.

Hotrod

 

[Zot]

0)2550BC - Switched so that the common grassland is not York's. I don't see anything to trade with the other's.

1)2510BC - South Scout busts fog in the hills & mountains south of London. One of the workers is done outside York. The other workers will be done building the road next turn (right click other worker, and it says as much when asking you if you really want them to stop doing what they are doing, and I leave them) The tiles around York are rather annoying. I debate doing something with the plains tile or working my way to the settler to help that town-to-be, or move to a forest tile and chop it down to speed up the temple/granary or roading the dye tile to keep our people happy... I choose to chop down the forestjust south of York, because it looks like it will be grassland under the trees. West warrior turns west to bust fog toward Moscow. East Warrior reveal a bunch of flood plains. NE scout bust more fog to the North. NW scout reveals a couple game near China. The settlers decide to leave their tents where they are and found Nottingham in sight of a horse, cattle, and deer. Eventually (after future expansion) there will be some wheat as well. Working the cattle gets Nottingham 3 food, which will cause population growth in 7 turns. At which time the game will yeild two food and two shields. A settler will be available in 30 turns, because there is only one shield. After the game in on line that will come down, but hopefully not by enough to cause the settler to be done too early.
None of the other civs has anything worth trading for. Bizzy has 15 gold, but I don't want to give him masonry. Cathy has 10 gold, but I don't want to give her the wheel. Mao and Hammi are poor and need alphabet and wheel, this will continue throughout my turns.

London finishes the settler, and starts training a spearman in 7 turns vs a warrior in 4. The other warriors are scouting and I think we will need someone for protection.

2)2470BC - Worker south of York starts chopping. The workers that were building a road outside York are finished. One will move to build a road to the dyes, and the other moves toward Nottingham. Fog busting by both scouts in the north. Settler moves toward York to move on toward a spot north of Nottinham and York. There is too much jungle and mountains south and east of London.

3)2430BC - Worker starts road from York to Nottingham on grassland that York will be able to use when it expands. Fog busting to the north reveals NE tundra and a village NW, and some barbarians to the west on Nottingham.

4)2390BC - Worker starts building a road to connect the dyes. Angle tribe teaches us Mysticism. Barbarians revealed by NE scout.

5)2350BC - West warrior becomes a veteran while dispatching barbarians and finding 25 gold. NE scout flees. Warrior near York heads toward NE barbarians. The Germans might deal/get attacked by the barbarians first.

6)2310BC - West worker finishes building road and moves onto the cattle. With roads we can get back to improve the grassland when York needs it. Settler lands on top of the hill NE of Nottingham. This will be where the next town is built. It will overlap with Nottingham for a couple grassland, but Nottingham has plenty to spare. The hill next to a pond for fresh water and next to a cattle. I debated going to the plains square NE of the hill, so there would not be any overlap and there would be 2 more hills for mining after expansion, but it would not have the fresh water and the cattle would have to wait for expansion.

7)2270BC - Worker starts irrigating cattle near Nottingham. This will result in more food. Even with despotism, as explained by Sirian in earlier posts. Spot Nineveh seven tiles SE of London. Build Hastings on the hill North of Nottingham and York. Start a warrior(in 5 turns). I decide to change London to a temple (in 9 turns) rather than the spearman.

8)2230BC - A barbarian comes out of the fog NW of Berlin. South scout reveals barbarians. Unfortunately, they are right next to the scout, so he will probably not make it. Adjust science to 80% so that writing will still happen next turn, and we will save one gold. Nottingham is now working the game tile, which causes the settler and population expansion in 7 turns. The irrigating worker will finish irrigating in 3 turns to bump up the food.

Writing is discovered. Horseback riding is the cheapest remaining tech. I figure someone else will work on iron working so we should be able to trade for it at some point. Or research it at 2nd or higher civ cost. Bump science to 90% to get Horseback riding in 10 turns and break even on gold. With writing we can build embassies, but they want 30 gold for Germany upto 39 gold for China. I am never very comfortable as to when to do this so I wait for now.

9)2190BC - Our south scout was not attacked! Do I take the chance and try to get past him, which will leave the scout next to him after this turn, or do I retreat? I take a chance.

10)2150BC - Our south scout was not attacked again! Keep moving south bustin' fog.

prod-shadow-zot-2150bc.zip

 

[Sirian]

IT 2550BC: Moved York off the borrowed tile to its own bg tile, with no immediate impact. All else is in order.

2510BC: Scout 1 (South of London): S, onto mountain, spots barbarian warrior. Ack, that could interfere with scouting plans, but good to know anyway. Scout 2 (Northeast coast): NW, N. Scout 3 (Near China): NW, N, to fog bust, spots goody hut. Conscript (East of York) N onto hill. Warrior (West of York) SW toward settler. Settler founds Nottingham on the river, starts outfitting a settler. One worker completes the road, the other two move east across the river onto a forest tile.

2470BC: Another barb warrior moves into view. London produces a settler and my thoughts of sending him south are scuttled for the moment. We have no military in the area. I could send him north or west, or east to the gems, but I like that flood plain wheat to the east. Even without irrigation, and under despotism, that will pull in four food per turn. I select a hill as destination and send the settler on goto, to arrive in four turns. (Using goto is not wise with unescorted settlers and barbarians running about, but I have a warrior in the area, that conscript, to meet up with him.

The worker pair starts chopping the forest, between them due to finish in five turns. With luck we'll get a bg tile out from under there, but if not, still a second good tile for York, plus ten shields toward the temple. The third worker moves W to extend the road to Nottingham. London starts training a warrior, due in four turns, and another settler could be produced six turns after that.

S3 N, pops the hut, we get another conscript. That troop I send S, toward home. Our consript near York goes W. S1 retreats N.

2430BC: Babylonian warrior takes out one barb unit. S1 W onto mountain. Worker west of York starts road. Conscript near York, W busts last fog tile near home. S2 N N along east coast, spots some tundra in the NE.

2390BC: Barb warrior comes into Range of Nottingham. Our warrior there fortifies. S1: SW, W into jungle. A barb camp has sprung up near S2, he retreats S, W. S3: NW, NE, along shore. (Better than going straight north into forest).

2350BC: Wow, barb camp popped up near S3 now, too. They are all over the place! It's risky with S1 to send him onward into jungle knowing a barb camp is nearby, but also no use retreating him with no hope of escort. I don't want to waste him, but with all these barb camps popping up now, possibly all over the world, the shelf life of scouts may be in their waning days now. I move S1 W and... oops. Not only next to the barb camp, but there are two units stacked there, meaning they just trained a new one and our scout is toast.

S2: S S. S3: E E. Both are running for their lives. Both our conscripts head S, gunning for home. I check diplomatic rounds, find nothing. (Some of the strongest players will tediously search through the diplo screens looking for foreign workers to buy, as doing so early can make a big difference, but I usually do not bother. I might buy one if I see one available, though).

2310BC: S1 wiped out. S2: S W. S3: N E, pops hut, we learn Mysticism. Barbarian warrior attacks our warrior in Nottingham, loses. Worker has finished road west of York, moves onto cattle tile. London produces warrior, starts settler. Hastings founded on a hill, in range of Flood Plain wheat and a gold hill, starts worker.

2270BC: S3: E. S2: W W. Conscript near Hastings moves into the new town for guard duty. Other keeps moving south. Forest done being chopped, reveals grassland tile, no shield. Both workers there start mining, worker near Nottingham starts irrigation. I drop science rate to 80%, writing due in two turns.

2230BC: S3: S. S2: SW S. Conscript: S. Quiet turn. I check diplomacy again, no news. I check Nottingham, which grew this turn, but the new population is working a good tile, the game tile. Settler due in 7, same time as the city would grow, although the irrigation will shave a turn off of that.

2190BC: S2 NW into German land, busts one fog tile, S back out. S3: SW S. We discover Writing. I establish embassy with our least-well known neighbor to the south, who is also the largest (Ninevah has appeared on my map, and that's at least three cities for the Babs) and also get some free map data from doing this. Babs have one food bonus, pulling in 3 fpt, and are building a settler. I order up Iron Working for next project and reset research to 90%, break even rate. We have 4g in the treasury.

I dial up to see who's in contact with whom. Only Russia and Babs have met, and we're all packed on one landmass within range of one another? This would NOT happen at higher difficulty. I crosscheck techs, and Babs have Mysticism now, so I sell to Russia for 35g, all they have, then establish embassy in Russia. We have 7g in the treasury now, and two embassies. (Unless you leaning toward military action wipe civs out, don't wait on the embassies. For a small one time fee, you improve relations, and open the chance for Right of Passage deals with smaller civs, for profit and further improved relations, as well as more intel on the civs, what their deals with other civs are and just all around the thing to do as a peaceful expansionist.

Germany and China are too poor at the moment to make any deals with them.

2150BC: A barb moves within sight of our conscript. I decide to attack, our unit wins with no damage but does not promote. NOTE: there are major MAJOR combat bonuses for player vs barbarian, that slowly recede as you increase difficulty, and vanish entirely on Deity, where it's fair odds. This means that on lower settings you can get away with more in regard to fending off or attacking barbarians.

S3: S. S2: SW, W onto mountain overlooking Berlin. Our workers are done mining. I start one on a road and move the other onto the dyes to build a road. Time to connect that luxury!

I check diplomacy again. Hammi has 25g, he must have just killed off a barb camp, possibly the one in the jungle SW of London. I sell him Right of Passage for 20 turns, for his 25g, and use that to establish embassy with Otto in Germany. I then sell him 20 turns of Right of Passage for 15g to recoup some of the cost. Both Germany and Babylon are now polite with us, and we have the right to move through their lands now also. Germany was building a spearman, by the way.

Sirian's Shadow - 2150BC


- Sirian

 

[Black Cursor]

I try not to think too much about Black Cursor shadows as I go through these exercises...

It's quite interesting, performing these experiments into parallel universes on our little continent here -- Is Sirian's cat dead or alive? I'm not touching that box! :mutant: In this little slice of reality, the period 2550 - 2150 BC would be known for its barbarian activity, and the fleetness of the highland scouts!

2550 BC (0): For future reference, Scout1 (S1) = Western scout,
Scout2 (S2) = Southern scout, Scout3 (S3) = Eastern scout.

Initiate round of diplomacy; nothing to gain here.

Notice York working common improved grassland/shield (bg), so swap to un-shared bg with no change to production.

2510 BC (1): Nottingham founded, builds Worker. Confirm that Nottingham is working the grassland/cattle. Conscript NE to hills.
S1 NW,W to mountains. S2 W to mountains, and sees barbarian. S3 W,NW to hills. With barbarians in the south, Warrior moves S in anticipation of settler escort duty. Worker #3 of 3 builds and completes road. 2 remaining Workers W.

--- See 2 more barbarians. London finishes Settler, builds Warrior seeing how there is a nearby threat.

2470 BC (2): Settler SW to claim hills on river with forest/game in immediate range, 2 mountains/gold after expansion. 2 Workers road grassland on their way to Nottingham. Worker3 moves W to join them. Warrior S. With our Warrior on the move, the Conscript moves W to our homeland. S1 N. S2 W. S3 NW,N.

--- Babylon warrior defeats barbarian with loss of 1hp, now yellow.

2430 BC (3): Settler SW. Worker3 builds and completes road. 2 Workers W to grassland/cattle. Warrior S. Conscript W. S1 NE, sees hut, moves NE, pops hut -- we learn Mysticism from the Angles! S2 W. S3 N,N.

2390 BC (4): Settler S into hostile territory. 2 Workers irrigate cattle. Worker3 moves W to join them. Warrior S; he is close enough now to react to any threat. Conscript W. S1 E,N. S2 W, sees Cuman village. S3 NE, sees Gepid village with an additional warrior, runs away W.

--- Gepid warrior moves SW, chasing S3. See another Gepid warrior!

2350 BC (5): Settler S. Worker3 joins the cattle irrigation. Warrior S. Conscript S, arrives at York. S1 N,E to mountains. S2 NE. S3 S,S will try to explore additional territory in the NE while steering clear of the Gepid village.

--- Cuman warrior chases S2. London finishes Warrior, builds Settler which as it turns it, was wishful thinking. See Babylon Nineveh founded.

2310 BC (6): Warrior S. Settler S, reaches town site safely! Irrigation completed, 3 Workers road and complete irrigated grassland/cattle. Conscript heads for London. London Warrior (Warrior2) S. S1 N, sees hut, moves E, pops hut -- The Huns give Warrior (Conscript2) Conscript2 E to mountains. S2 N to hills. S3 S,S.

2270 BC (7): Hastings founded, builds Warrior to help defend against all this barbarian activity. Workers W to Nottingham en-route to improving the next best tile: forest/game. Warrior2 S to mountains, heading for Hastings. Warrior S. Conscript2 S to mountains. S1 N,W. S2 N to hills. S3 SE,E.

--- Nottingham finishes Worker, builds Temple in order to quickly make additional good tiles (i.e. bg) available.

2230 BC (8): Workers N to forest/game. Conscript fortifies in London. Warrior2 S. Warrior S. Conscript2 S, sees Bulgar warrior. S1 SW,W. S2 N to hills. S3 E,N turning back towards unexplored land. Science 50% nets 4g (Writing still due in 1).

--- See Russian scout chased by 2 barbarians, see another Bulgar warrior. Writing learned, Science 100%, research Iron Working (in 11). With Writing learned, investigate cost of Embassies:

Russia-32g, Germany-33g, Babylon-30g, China-39g. None established now.

2190 BC (9): All 4 Workers clear forest/game. Warrior2 S. Warrior S. Since one of the stated purposes of shadow turns is to try things one would not normally consider, I choose to test the effect of terrain on combat. With no other immediate need for Conscript2 and a pipe-dream for his promotion, Conscript2 attacks Bulgar warrior from hills to mountains and... ... ... loses. :suicide: Not really surprising. S1 S,SW. S2 N to hills. S3 NE,N.

--- See 2 Goth warriors heading for London! With this immediate threat, London switches from Settler to Spearman. I don't think the lone Conscript can be expected to hold.

2150 BC (10): Warrior S to mountains. Warrior2 W, reaches Hastings. S1 SE, re-acquires Bulgar village (this was expected as I keep track of these things), runs E to mountains. S2 N to hills. S3 N,NE.

With the end of my turn, I contact the other nations -- wonder how they've progressed in the last 400 years.

Russia: Suprisingly, this expansionist civilization has not made contact with their other neighbors - China and Germany. They do not have The Wheel nor Writing and I will not be giving it to them. I drain their treasury of 42g and grant Catherine contact with Mao.

Germany: No contact with Russia obviously, but they do not know about China or Babylon either. Masonry and Writing will not come from me. Since they'll find China soon either directly or from Russia, I perform a trade similar to my Russian one -- Bismark's treasury of 40g is drained for contact with Mao.

Babylon: With all my troop building this round in reaction to the barbarian incursions, we've attained military parity with all except The Hammer. They have Spearman, better culture, and remain Annoyed with us. A war would not be in our best interests, so I work on improving relations. With the extra gold from Russia and Germany, it is a simple decision to establish an Embassy in Babylon for 30g. Hammurabi is now Cautious. Postscript: Babylon remains without The Wheel and Writing.

China: Poor backwards China lacks contact with Babylon, Alphabet and Ceremonial Burial. I would love to sell the technology, but Mao remains without a coin to his name. I choose to establish an Embassy in Beijing for 39g, leaving Mao grinning from ear to ear (Polite).

Finally, with a surplus of gold still, I choose to establish one more Embassy. I pick the least costly (32g) and look into the activities of the Muscovites. Catherine is now Polite.

Noting my Military Advisor's comment of Vandal activity near Nottingham, I consider switching production from Temple to Spearman, but choose to maintain the status quo, noting with some small pride that all Scouts live to forage another day.

Be seeing you...

---> TBC (Those :aargh3: Barbarian Conscripts)

TBC's Shadow - 2150BC