1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Progressive MP game thread

Discussion in 'Multiplayer and LP's' started by Thunderbrd, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    27,378
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    You would not want to team with an AI. Their poor decisions would weigh you down. Singles also have some disadvantages against teams...

    I was throwing a suggestion out there but it's up to y'all to figure out who you'd want to team with.
     
  2. Spirictum

    Spirictum Immortal

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    3,105
    Location:
    Brazil
    @MagnusIlluminus
    :lol:
    If you have followed how I've been writing for more then a year already that we have been playing that game, you'll see that I just started using that symbol very recently and suddenly stopped using it again. The reason for that is that I installed a very old game in my computer recently (Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor) because I was told it works more or less ok in Windows 10 and I had to see it for myself. Anyway, to properly play that game I had to change my keyboard configuration to your beloved english language, and I forgot to get it back to portuguese. This is why suddenly I started using ` instead of '. I only realized that after I dropped several of these ` in my posts.

    I understand you getting bothered by my mispelling and other errors, and you're right, my primary language isn't english, it's portuguese, but if you're the type of person that could correct someone and be well with that, I'm ok with it, you can correct me whenever you'd like. I'm really eager to make my english better. I don't mind being corrected, it's actually a great thing to me. It's like having free english classes, and I already stopped my formal english classes for a very long time. The only place I use my english in writing is here in this forum. I've learned a lot here, people over the S&T subforum have been great teachers when I did something wrong.

    This is what I can do to make things better for you if we partner in this.

    About playstyle, I'll tell you my playstyle: Analyze everything I can to make the best decision possible. All that stuff that people prefer because "it suits their preferences, or playstyle" and nothing else as a reason doesn't exist to me anymore. I dropped all that, and instead I use what I learn from every game to always play differently, trying to make the best most synergistic of choices. The aim is to hasten the pace and size of the Snowball, because this game is mostly dictated by the snowball effect. I never played with partners, but as I like to study my options and debate them with myself, I believe I can be a good partner because I'm up for healthy discussions to coordinate efforts.
     
  3. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    16,022
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Western IL. cornfields
    Never done a Team game. In fact the Massive and Another were my 1st MP games with more than 1 other person. And before that it was a couple of Direct IP games using RoM with a former friend and fellow MoOIII'er from Chicago.

    All new stuff in many ways.

    JosEPh
     
  4. MagnusIlluminus

    MagnusIlluminus Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,997
    Location:
    In my own little world...
    How about we wait a bit and see if we get some more players before we worry too much about who is partnering with whom.
     
  5. Spirictum

    Spirictum Immortal

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    3,105
    Location:
    Brazil
    You're right, but I also don't have anyone I know to partner with, so I'm in the same situation as you. And I was defending myself as a partner (and a poor but dedicated english student :p) because Tbrd suggested it and you were dismissing it (no offense taken at all, just thought I should explain a few things). If we agree that teams are not needed, but may be formed, I'd prefer to go alone.

    Also I'm glad Tbrd was clear about the AI's incompetence. I won't team with the AI, this is an offense to a human player. If the AI decides to make a stupid tech, there is nothing I can do to change it, and this means half our tech production going towards the tech I see as best, and the other half going to a tech the stupid AI decided to do.
     
  6. Harrier

    Harrier Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,411
    Location:
    UK
    Count me out - for a number of reasons. The first being the main one.

    1. I struggle (computer wise) to play on a Large map with 8 civs., when in the Middle ages onwards. On a Huge map with 8 players and 8 AIs. Ouch - CRASH.

    Probably be lucky to make it to the Classical.

    2. Never played with a number of the proposed selected options, including 'size matters' and 'hide and seek'. Getting there slowly.

    3. Never played a multi-player game on a computer.

    Points 2 and 3 make me a poor team member. So short straw to the person I would be teamed up with.

    What I may do is - when you have decided on all the play options. Try a single player game using those options on a large map to see how it pans out.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
  7. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    27,378
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    I was just about to PM you anyhow. Thank you for sharing your reservations though.

    Let me try to change your mind here...

    1) if you get to a point where you can't load and play one turn I'd be surprised. You can only ever play one turn at a time so the leaks that tend to shut things down after a few turns would take till way late in the game for most systems that can play C2C at all before they would become problematic. I doubt that you'd have any issue here and if you did then you could probably work something out with your team for a solution to an exit strategy.

    2) many of the players here are in the same situation having not played these before. The game won't be taking so many turns so fast that if you were to start a personal game for the experience that you'd be able to self-teach within the 2nd or 3rd turn. Or start one this weekend... we may not even be started yet. The v37 guide should cover almost all questions and I can answer any others you may have. The challenge is very much to adapt and while this may be my wheelhouse mostly, I'm having to take the same challenge in the other game. Plus... we're including some AI players so that we can get some practice against non-human players before the gloves really come off. Additionally, other team players may be able to share their own insights. Again, 70% of the players already agreeing to play have the same or less experience with these options.

    3) See #2. All this is going to take is lots of intriguing PM conversations with your team and this forum's new conversation system is a great platform for that since you can have multiple people on the same private discussion.


    4) Some very good players may want to Dabble in this game as part of a team but not be the ones committed to always taking the turn because they cannot be sure they can regularly do so. If you are a bit more capable of providing that activity net of turn taking for a larger collective that can put your heads together on strategies, then you'd be more than a valuable player in this game!

    5) As a long term forum contributor, you belong in this game with us. We're having fun... not competing for prize money!



    Also to others: consider that the more players that are in this game, the slower it will naturally move, and that's fine. That's why the die hards have 1-2 other games going. And we can always add another. I want this as the ultimate test of these systems and observations of human ingenuity applied to them. Even as their creator, (regarding the combat mods) I probably don't see some really cool things that can be done with them yet.
     
  8. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    27,378
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Problem with going it alone is that it's like starting with one city while all your competitors start with 2. Mathematically this is basically how it works out. We could possibly decide to give a solo player an easier game difficulty to try to compensate (and I think we should all start off as Immortal to give the AI players a chance to keep up as we find that's probably about accurate if they are solo players against 1 or more 2 player teams.) But we'd have to determine what that would be and I think it would be better if we can all team up... more even that way.
     
  9. Spirictum

    Spirictum Immortal

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    3,105
    Location:
    Brazil
    I'm not well versed in Team gameplay, and I'm not sure I got you right, but if you meant that it's like 2 players banding together with free share of discovered techs, that's not the case. Some numbers are adjusted to compensate for that, one being the research progress. If I'm not mistaken, Techs just cost Double, so if both players are trying to discover the same tech, they will complete it in the same time as a solo player that happens to produce half the :commerce: the team makes. Or it's something like that, I don't play with teams for some years already. And I'm not sure if there are other numbers influenced by that.
     
  10. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    27,378
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Techwise you are right that it balances out. But when you consider units and warfare and the ability to offer each other support in this manner, the lone player is really disadvantaged.
     
  11. Spirictum

    Spirictum Immortal

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    3,105
    Location:
    Brazil
    Is there anything else that it balances out? I would guess some sort of upkeep? Or is it only tech?
     
  12. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    27,378
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Upkeep is more forgiving for a team because you can support twice as many cities on half the upkeep. Sorta. You've got two capitals automatically basically.
     
  13. Spirictum

    Spirictum Immortal

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    3,105
    Location:
    Brazil
    2 Things I would like to adress:

    1- I would like to voice for Terrain Damage. I really liked this concept in C2C. It gives more importance to terrain promotions and makes some areas natural impediments to attack routes (much like Peaks prior to the ability to cross them, but slightly different as it allows passage but does damage), which IMO is more realistic.

    2- I believe reefs stay and keep doing damage even if this option isn't ticked right? If so, in a pure gamewise perspective, isn't that against the meaning of No Terrain Damage? If not forget my question.
     
  14. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    9,254
    I also think terrain damage is a good option. The main problem with it is that the AI does not understand it well, but in PVP it adds more depth
     
  15. Harrier

    Harrier Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,411
    Location:
    UK
    OK. Count me in.

    Just played a Huge map (default number of Civs) on Autoplay - went to about 400 turns and no problems. So that is a year at least in PBEM.

    By then I should have a better PC.

    However, I will need some guide, on the way to play multi-player games and PBEM. Any threads you can point me to.
     
  16. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    27,378
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    1) about terrain damage: I was keeping it off to appeal to Whisperr who really really hates TD. However, she said she'd be willing to bend on that given the map we are using has relatively few large swaths of damaging terrain. Since the other game isn't using TD and we're using most of the 'strategic' options then I can see the point.

    2)@Harrier: AWESOME!!! We may also be able to get Pepper2000 in the game too. He's taking a little time to think over similar arguments so let's pm him and show him some support because we need one more player to make for an even amount.

    Then if Hydro would be willing to be a backup player, wise advisor, and password holder, we'd have ourselves a game roster!

    Teams with players that worry about their inevitable timeouts may want to seek out another dedicated backup player as well if they can.

    My strongest suggestion for that, particularly if you are a team that wants some combat mod experience advice, would be to ask Toffer, who has been very clear that he's too often not available for days on end for anything but conversation on the forums. But he's very attentive to the forum itself... just usually through phone access and intermittent access to his gaming computer. He's also an awesome source of wisdom on the combat mods so a team would do well to recruit him as a backup and for strategy guidance.

    I have not tried to directly pm any of the LPers. I feel like our primary players should be our dedicated forum folks for the sake of reliability. (And I'm wondering if I'm forgetting anyone here. DH turned us down because he wouldn't want the competitive nature of the game and SO has not responded to my request yet.)

    We're still going to have to figure out how we're going to select team partners...


    As for how to play an MP game / PBEM: I started this explanation thread. Let me know if it answers all questions or if it lacks clarity anywhere.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2017
  17. MagnusIlluminus

    MagnusIlluminus Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,997
    Location:
    In my own little world...
    Isn't the plan for these two new games to use the newest version of C2C mod? If so, the folder structure will have to be a bit different to allow the current game to remain. I suggest:
    OS(C)/C2C SVN MP/ (your address may vary, that is where mine is)
    - - C2C MP/ (contains mod for the current US MP game, not listing all contents)
    - - Save+TurnList/
    - - - - US MP game2 saves/
    - - - - - - UserSettings
    - - - - - - US_MP_C2C_turnlist
    - - - - - - US_MP_Game
    - - - - C2C_Humans_Vs_Humans
    - - - - turn logger-8
    - - Progressive and Conservative/ (name of folder can be different, this is just for illustration)
    - - - - C2C PC MP/ (folder containing the C2C mod version for these games, "PC" being an abbreviation for "Progressive and Conservative")
    - - - - Progressive Game/
    - - - - - - UserSettings
    - - - - - - Prg_MP_C2C_turnlist
    - - - - - - Prg_MP_Game
    - - - - Conservative Game/
    - - - - - - UserSettings
    - - - - - - Cnsv_MP_C2C_turnlist
    - - - - - - Cnsv_MP_Game


    I'm fine with Terrain Damage on.
     
  18. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    27,378
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    I was going to do this:
    OS(C)/C2C SVN MP/ (your address may vary, that is where mine is)
    - - C2C MP/ (contains mod for the current US MP game, not listing all contents)
    - - C2C PC MP Mod Folder data
    - - Save+TurnList/
    - - - - US MP game2 saves/
    - - - - - - UserSettings
    - - - - - - US_MP_C2C_turnlist
    - - - - - - US_MP_Game
    - - - - Progressive Game/
    - - - - - - UserSettings
    - - - - - - Prg_MP_C2C_turnlist
    - - - - - - Prg_MP_Game
    - - - - Conservative Game/
    - - - - - - UserSettings
    - - - - - - Cnsv_MP_C2C_turnlist
    - - - - - - Cnsv_MP_Game
    - - - - C2C_Humans_Vs_Humans
    - - - - turn logger-8

    Not much of a difference really.
     
  19. MagnusIlluminus

    MagnusIlluminus Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,997
    Location:
    In my own little world...
    Could work, I suppose. It just seems that having two mods at the base level could be confusing. I'm probably overthinking things though.
     
  20. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    27,378
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Either way would work equally well I think.
     

Share This Page