Promotions and Upgrades

[Bloodstone]

In the recent thread about the Oromo Warrior, there was a discussion about the upgrading of that unit and what promotions carried through. Can the learned minds of this wonderful forum expound upon the promotion mechanics? I have looked, though not really to hard, to try and find more info in the War Academy but I'm not seeing anything.

Mostly I'm just curious as to how to determine which exact promotions carry through the upgrade process or what the general criteria may be. Not talking about the obvious stuff, i.e. Medical, but the other lines of promotion. How does the game determine which promo can or can't? I'm assuming it's promo based and not unit specific, or is it both?

I have a game running now that I've managed to build a good Mace force with a couple of GG's and I've tried to bunch them into stacks where the promotions work together, just wondering how I'm going to need to adjust those stacks later as I upgrade the higher level ones.

One other trailer question, I've got a rally point set up just outside of a northern city that belongs to one of my vassals, the tile I'm using to rally is in his Cultural Border but just outside his city, I have noticed that I can't upgrade the units sitting in that spot. Would it matter if I moved them into his city, or do I need them within my borders before I can upgrade? I can test it tonight when I get home, just thought I would throw it in there. Thanks

 

[Windsor]

All promotions stick, however inherited abilities (like the bowmans +50% against melee) is of course not carried through.

 

[s.bernbaum]

A unit needs to be inside your own cultural borders in order to upgrade.

 

[Ataxerxes]

One other minor point. When you upgrade your XP's are set back to 10. This means that if you have a unit with 16 XP's, you might want to have it win a "gimme" fight, use the promo and then upgrade the unit. If a heavily promoted unit is upgraded you probably won't get many more upgrades when the XP's read 10/37.

 

[wolfblue]

WTF

where did you get that dross from?

when you promote a unit it gains the promotion and heals.

when you upgrade a unit it does not heal and you use up all of the remaining movement that unit may have for the turn. however all promotions and xp stays the same. there is no magical loss of xp. even if you have promotion levels that you have not used and you upgrade a unit the new unit will still glow indicating that it has available promotions.

in fact generally speaking if you promote a unit it will keep the promotions it has even if the new unit would normally not have them.

for example if you promote a basic privateer with no experience to a destroyer the destroyer will have improved vision inherited from the privateer even though a destroyer normally cannot have the improved vision promotion without first having the flanking promotion.

in my naval fleets i often have at least 2 destroyers one who acts as a healer and one with extended vision. the extended vision destroyer is almost always an upgraded pirate.

 

[Windsor]

Ataxerxes is 100% correct. XP is capped at 10/x.

Promotions sticks, XP is capped.

 

[Ataxerxes]

WTF

where did you get that dross from?

when you promote a unit it gains the promotion and heals.

when you upgrade a unit it does not heal and you use up all of the remaining movement that unit may have for the turn. however all promotions and xp stays the same. there is no magical loss of xp. even if you have promotion levels that you have not used and you upgrade a unit the new unit will still glow indicating that it has available promotions.

in fact generally speaking if you promote a unit it will keep the promotions it has even if the new unit would normally not have them.

for example if you promote a basic privateer with no experience to a destroyer the destroyer will have improved vision inherited from the privateer even though a destroyer normally cannot have the improved vision promotion without first having the flanking promotion.

in my naval fleets i often have at least 2 destroyers one who acts as a healer and one with extended vision. the extended vision destroyer is almost always an upgraded pirate.

When you upgrade a unit you keep all promotions. You also get any promotions the unit it upgraded to gets. It's possible the latest patch changed things, but the XP's drop back down to 10. Therefore, before you upgrade a unit with a lot of experience, make sure you use all available XP's to get promotions. I often hold off on Promos until I know what I need or if I might need the healing.

Units with no experience I was not discussing. I don't upgrade them unless they're Oromos or something similar, generally. Sorry if I expressed myself poorly. I only meant that if you have 16 XP's you probably want to get #17 and promote before upgrading.

And yes, all PROMOTIONS carry forward to the upgraded unit. I may be going nuts, but EXPERIENCE is reset to 10. That's all I meant.

 

[wolfblue]

I have never experianced that.

i generally keep any unit with 17+ xp and continue to upgrade them. they have never reset.
I also tend to put generalls on warriors or what ever other low level unit i have laying around and then upgrade him for free.

that would not work at all if the unit lost all xp after a promotion.

are you sure your playing Civ4 BTS patch 3.19?

 

[Windsor]

Here's a demonstration using BTS 3.19:

Spoiler :

edit: Aaah! Units with GGs! They are exceptions

 

[Ataxerxes]

Thanks, Windsor! You gave a perfect visual example of what I was talking about. If the Musketman had gotten one more XP he could have gotten a promo and then upgraded. Now he has to get seven more XP's to get the same promo.

GG Units are the exception. Maybe that's what Wolf Blue was experiencing.

 

[wolfblue]

hm... i may stand corrected. I have never seen this in my games and cant bring up a system to check it now as i am traveling.

 

[s.bernbaum]

wolfblue, you are remembering incorrectly. The others are correct. Perhaps you were playing a mod where this was changed and that is what you are recalling. In the unmodded game, when you upgrade a unit, it keeps all of its promotions but the XP drops to 10, assuming that it was more than 10 before the upgrade. The only exception is a GG unit.

 

[God-Emperor]

A lot of mods bump up the XP kept on upgrade limit since 10 is not a lot. It is a simple change to one entry in the GlobalDefines.xml file (or GlobalDefinesAlt.xml file, if that is what the mod uses).

Final Frontier Plus increases it to 15. Quot Capita bumps it up to 17. Rise of Mankind sets it to 25. Fall from Heaven 2 sets it to 999 (so it is effectively unlimited). Dune Wars sets it to 1000.

(It is also pretty common to bump up the limit past which you get no experience for fighting barbarians, and sometimes animals too. Each of these is also controlled by an entry in the same file.)

 

[HoRRoR21]

Hi, just my 2c, I think what happens, is you lose the xp when promoting to riflemen. I play BTS, 3.13, with the bug mod. I read about the losing xp on promotions, and was cautious at home when upgrading my macemen. BUT, I saw that no xp was lost. HOWEVER, when i promoted to riflemen, suddenly, the xp's of my units all went back to 10. Just a thought, i dont know...Im most likely wrong, but that is what i saw.

 

[wolfblue]

I dont play any mods.

BTS 3.19 i dont even use the bugs/bats stuff (although i do love those and play them from time to time.

I will accept that i am wrong on this i just cant remember it ever effectnig me and I am a big upgrader. i could have sworn that on many occatinos i have upgraded a unit at say 19/17 and after the upgrade given him a promotion.

the fact that GG plays by different rules may also have been throwing me off since i usually play with 2 or 3 field generals that i upgrade through the game.

 

[Bloodstone]

Great info here.
It has been noted that the XP rolls back to 10, with the exception of a unit that is lead by a GG. What are the parameters of that exception? Or is it just a matter of the GG unit doesn't loose any of the XP in question?

 

[Ataxerxes]

Great info here.
It has been noted that the XP rolls back to 10, with the exception of a unit that is lead by a GG. What are the parameters of that exception? Or is it just a matter of the GG unit doesn't loose any of the XP in question?

No parameters, it's just part of the game. A GG unit doesn't lose XP's when it upgrades. It's just a matter than the GG unit doesn't lose XP's. I admit I never thought about why the game is that way.

 

[plasmacannon]

I don't usually attach a GG to a unit, but, this is a very good reason to do so.
When, you get a unit up to 30+ xp, the last thing you want to do, is drop back to 10 xp.
Boudica, for example, is CHA, and her Gallic warriors start with 2 Promos plus the barracks xp, when created. Churchill's PRO/CHA units do as well.

Even more important when it's +20 xp boosts you up to 65/76 xp.
It starts getting hard earn enough xp to promote units at that point.
Image at the link below.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=273590&d=1290667794

 

[oldskald]

No parameters, it's just part of the game. A GG unit doesn't lose XP's when it upgrades. It's just a matter than the GG unit doesn't lose XP's. I admit I never thought about why the game is that way.

I guess it's because the general is just so... great

It kinda makes sense, just as the free upgrade does. It's a bonus for not settling the GG and putting him into the frontline.

 

[Ghpstage]

Attaching Great Generals to units that are intended to fight is rare enough as it is, and for good reason. Its often the worst possible use of a general at any given time. If upgrading them made them lose what is likely to be more than half their experience, I don't think anyone would ever do it.