Prove God Exists - Act Three

[King Alexander]

@erickcid: I'm afraid I don't understand what you're trying to tell me(English is not my first language).

 

[erickcid]

King Alexander: Ah. Your statement Good is Evil/Evil is Good. I understand you, in fact I agree with you in large part. That statement can be represented by the Tao - the black and white circle, also called ying & yang. A quick web search will reveal what it is, also solarknights avatar is the tao. Anyway, as I was thinking about that, i looked at the email I received because I am subscribed to this thread. The digits in the link I posted read 90069. The number 69 is the numerical expression of the Tao. Interesting number to be assigned to this thread.

 

[King Alexander]

@erickcid: ok, thanks. I was a little confused when I read your post.

Look, what I really want to say, is that people have a bad habit of divine things into Good/Bad, God/Satan, etc... They cannot understand(most of them, anyway) that these things(as many others, also) are not separated. It's a simple and miserable explanation to satisfy our ignorance about something.

 

[Blasphemous]

erickcid, that link actually led to one single post, not to the thread... The number 69 is bound to appear every now and then in the post id of at least one message in any long thread...
Just because you choose to attribute to this probable coincidence some divine meaning does not actually mean there is anything divine about it.

 

[erickcid]

King Alexander: Indeed. What is Evil today is tomorrow's pop culture.

Blasphemous: I suspect that will be a popular position.

I am off to build a new Roman civilization. I will check in later.

Be well

 

[Perfection]

Okay, okay, okay! Enough with the silly word/number games, let's get back to the question. Can someone prove god exists?

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Can you substantiate this point? E.g.: If a god existed, uniquely; then somehow that god must be favorable to "faith"?

I speak only of the Christian God Jehovah. In His Word, you will find that His desire is for us to be faithful, and to exercise that faith with works on His behalf. In the sense that faith and proof are mutually exclusive, the lack of proof of God's existence today IS proof of His Existence. The obvious problem with that is, of course, that lack of proof is not proof. Then again, it is also not proof of lack.

In the OT, God gave His Chosen People, the Israelites, ample evidence of His existence, and of His power. They could not remain faithful to Him. In the NT, he granted to Jesus and some of his followers the ability to perform some miracles to establish Jesus' credentials as His son. Jesus then had the authority to establish Christianity and the requirements of faith and works for salvation.

Once this was established and set into motion, miracels were no longer needed or desired. Israel (of that time, the secular nation of Israel I do not speak of here) had been familiar with God's power, and that familiarity bred contempt. No such complacency was desired in the followers of the New Covenant, and therefore there have been no miracles since that time.

Why? Because proof is the anathema of faith. If I had witnessed a miracle taking place, I would know with absolute certainty that God existed, and any acts I undertook to serve Jehovah would obviously be taken out of desire for personal gain with certain knowledge that the 'game' was 'rigged'. No good could come of that. I have no proof that God exists, yet I believe it to be true.

In fact, I not only believe it, I find it at best slightly loony to countenance the idea the He is not real. It strikes me as more than a trifle insane that some people insist on pursuing the delusion that there is no God. I can no more accept the idea that all of this (Life, the Universe, and Everything) is a product of random chance than I can accept the idea that this life is all there is.

Why does everyone persist under the notion that they are going to live forever if death is a natural thing? Nobody I have ever heard of just crawled off to die like an animal when they got sick or injured. Everyone (barring suicides, who can arguably be listed as victims of depression and at the very end) struggles to cling to life until the very end. If man is an animal, why does he not act as an animal? If evolution is your answer, why have we no peers from other lines? Everything else on earth crawls off to die when the end is near, why not us?

Pointlessness:
I forgot about the symbols you were using, or I'd have used them.

 

[erickcid]

That your thread number asking whether god exists or not is numbered 90069, I do not find silly. Consider the 900; a trinity. The 69, which represents the Tao. The 9 in the numerical representation would be Yang. Yang: the active male principle of the universe, characterized as male, and creative, associated with heaven, heat, and light. Contrasted with yin. You might also be relieved to know that 9/Yang, your start number, is commonly related to Good, so there is some relief for you Tao is defined as the absolute principle underlying the universe, combining within itself the principles of yin and yang and signifying the way, or code of behavior, that is in harmony with the natural order. The interpretation of Tao in the Tao-te-Ching developed into the philosophical religion of Taoism. It is no mistake that the Bible has a book entitled Numbers. So, as Jesus says seek and you will find, ask and you shall receive, knock and it will be answered. I am delighted to see God has chosen to answer for itself.

Be Well

 

[King Alexander]

Why? Because proof is the anathema of faith.

You're right: let's return to Neandertal Age where no one tried to prove anything or the inquition era where "believe and don't ask" was the slogan.

If I had witnessed a miracle taking place, I would know with absolute certainty that God existed,

I'm not sure that if I watched a miracle to happen I'd relate it to some "God/Satan" thing; you WANT to believe in God, therefore, as you say, you'd think that God made the miracle. Some unexplained incident that we're yet unable to understand, doesn't mean that "God" made it happen.

In fact, I not only believe it, I find it at best slightly loony to countenance the idea the He is not real.

The same thing many people who don't believe for some disillusioned religionists.

It strikes me as more than a trifle insane that some people insist on pursuing the delusion that there is no God. I can no more accept the idea that all of this (Life, the Universe, and Everything) is a product of random chance than I can accept the idea that this life is all there is.

You are free to believe in whatever you want; the same goes with everyone else. If you're happy with your faith, that's good, but, don't expect from the rest of the people to share the same ideas with you.

Why does everyone persist under the notion that they are going to live forever if death is a natural thing? Nobody I have ever heard of just crawled off to die like an animal when they got sick or injured. Everyone (barring suicides, who can arguably be listed as victims of depression and at the very end) struggles to cling to life until the very end.

You're reffering to something every living organism has: instinct for survival. If you "order" your heart to stop it's function, it won't obey you; that's called self-protection in order to survive. (ok, I've described it as best as I could, with my limited English knowledge )

If man is an animal, why does he not act as an animal?

Man IS an animal, but he acts much worse than an animal(because he also has inteligence); just turn on your TV and watch the news or look around you how people treat each other.

 

[WS78]

Maybe we should ask proof of Satan, then we will know that God exists.

 

[ainwood]

Maybe we should ask proof of Satan, then we will know that God exists.

Its already been 'done'. See here.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

You're right: let's return to Neandertal Age where no one tried to prove anything or the inquition era where "believe and don't ask" was the slogan.

...and when dazzling them with your brilliance fails... When you get tired of beating your straw man, get back to me...

I'm not sure that if I watched a miracle to happen I'd relate it to some "God/Satan" thing; you WANT to believe in God, therefore, as you say, you'd think that God made the miracle. Some unexplained incident that we're yet unable to understand, doesn't mean that "God" made it happen.

Ok, if you sent your wife and kid out every morning to collect the mana that fell out of the sky to feed you every morning for forty years, what scientific explanation would you advance for that?

The same thing many people who don't believe for some disillusioned religionists.

Agreed. But you DO understand that I find your non-belief just as whacky as you find my belief, right?

You're reffering to something every living organism has: instinct for survival. If you "order" your heart to stop it's function, it won't obey you; that's called self-protection in order to survive. (ok, I've described it as best as I could, with my limited English knowledge )

What human have you ever heard of (that was not suffering from severe depression) who just crawled off into a corner to die when they got sick or badly injured? Self-preservation is not what I am talkinga bout. I am talking about the will to live. Animals give up their lives meekly when their injuries are beyond their ability to heal. No otherwise healthy human I have ever heard of has done the same. Death's onset shocks those of us who have not had the 'benefit' of psychological counsel to accept it. Think about that, of all the 'animals' on this planet, only man needs to be brainwashed to accept his own death, without that brainwashing, he denies it and fights it to the bitterest end.

No other creature in nature has our fear and disdain of death. To us, it is unnatural and alien, a thing to be abhorred above all others. We use it as our most ghastly punishment, we inflict it on those we hate, and we erect monuments to those that succumb to it and strive daily to stave it off.

And who among us do we revere the most? What professions are most noble and their practicioners obeyed nearly without question? Rescue workers and doctors, those who man the trenches against our millennias-old foe, Death. Who do we revile? Murderers and politicians, those who kill in person or by proxy. Who, among all others, do our emotions get confused and conflicted the most over? Soldiers and police, those who kill to protect citizens, or at the behest of politicians, to dominate them.

Man IS an animal, but he acts much worse than an animal(because he also has inteligence); just turn on your TV and watch the news or look around you how people treat each other.

Predators routinely tear other animals limb from limb and consume them, often while still kicking. Herd animals abandon their elderly and sick. Hive insects fight wars of extermination against each other that make the Final Solution look like a walk in the park. Pack predators in action could be taped and shown as a perfect lesson in sadism and treachery. Parent predators training their young to hunt give the phrase 'playing with your food' a deeply disturbing meaning. So-called 'gentle' and 'almost-human' male great apes routinely establish pecking order in their troupes via rape, including homosexual rape.

Tell me again how man, that pitiful and inadequate poseur, stacks up against REAL animals...

 

[erickcid]

Well, God is Satan. Satan exists because morality adjusts as human beings evolve, therefore the man that is labelled as Evil by the Good and believes himself out of God's favor has something Divine to turn to for help. God understands humanity, which is why Satan is seen as a different being, in truth that is a Lie, which is rather funny when you think about it.. Anyway, the point here is Good people are not always Good despite their relative positions of authority throughout the years, hence the Divine need for Satan... I can go on here, but I am going to change gears to give you all something the think about. The Christmas Holiday - generally a time of Love and giving. Now Consider Jesus. Jesus = God = Love (as in God is Love, very popular saying). Love is attributed to the color Red. Santa = Satan (swap the letters) = Giving. The man in Red. Red attributed to passion/desire and evil. So God = Love = Red = Satan, and yes there are valid reasons for this deception, and yes fun is one of them. Red is the lowest of the (seven) colors, and it belongs to the (lowest) of the seven notes of the musical scale, which is C: and most (martial) music is in the key of C. I placed those words in () because they are of spirital significance Seven - a number of some note, commonly related to God, lowest = Satan = Hell = below = damn funny. Martial music.. remember when Heavy Metal was the devils music? Also, Red attributed to the God of War/martial, Mars, and as God says in the Bible, The Lord is a Man of War. Now the key of C.. Well C has many values for me, but here is the funny thing... the Key of C, C in this case standing for Creation. God is everywhere people. All this stuff that you think is so stupid, well God just loves it. It has a wicked sense of humor. Just open up and you will see. I recommend anyone whom drinks bottled coke to take a look at their bottle cap. It is all Red. Now on the top what appears to be common business practice writing is placed. But the words form the shape of the letter C, and the U with a circle around it, a symbol commonly used in business, but here it means U for universe, with the circle symbolizing God around it. You may not see God, but God loves us and is omnipresent in the development of human beings, and part of our culture. The fact is God is its own person, and has its own feelings, and reasons. Try to put yourself in its shoes before you pass judgement. Again, why it says in the Bible I Am what I Am. Oh, here is something for your Christians whom are always preaching to fear Satan. You are wrong, all wrong. Satan is like God's ultimate test. One of the commandments states that there is only one god etc etc. Well, you Christians are technically breaking that commandment because your fear of Satan gives it life and power. Typically what you fear subjigates you. The point here is if you know and have God there is no reason to fear Satan, and in fact no reason to fear anything. I would recommend book of job to get an idea of God's relationship with satan, one that christians do not take the proper understand from. I lost my train of thought so I am going to stop, anyway as you can see and are free to discover, God is pretty normal, if a bit strange, and more like you than you think. I just remember something I wanted to say.. the pentagram.. The Circle with the five pointed star inside. The 5 pointed star representing Man, and the Circle God. It is a good symbol to represent the statement the Oneness of Humanity within the Oneness of God from the Qur'an.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Ok, dude. Seriously, paragraphs. That is unreadable. Are you on something? That is total stream-of-consciousness rambling.

 

[erickcid]

fearlessleader2: With effort you can read it. I started writing half-heartedly as I was not sure whether I desired to get into this at the moment. Once I began, I continued, so I suppose the style is a bit stream-of-conciousness, not something that I am ashamed of.

edit: I am not on anything.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Edit it. Put it in paragraphs. Cut-and-paste the sentences so all of the material dealing with one topic is together so it can be addressed as a cohesive whole. I am not going to do that job for you, and it's not worth the effort to try to understand it as it is written.

If you want a reply, you will comply. (Borg poetry!! I AM THE MAN!!)

 

[erickcid]

fearlessleader2: Do not read it. No worries.

 

[Mrogreturns]

As it happens I am drinking a bottle of Coke right now- the lid is not red and there is no writting forming a "U"- shape on it either. However, I have no doubt you'll find some wonderful message from god in those facts.

 

[erickcid]

Mrogreturns: I live in New York City, I suspect there is different packaging. I have spent a bit more than three years with God and have learned from it. The things that I have seen and have been revealed to me since God became a part of my Life have been in variety. My intention was just to share one that came to me. As I can not see your bottle cap, I can not give you a proper "reading"

 

[King Alexander]

Ok, if you sent your wife and kid out every morning to collect the mana that fell out of the sky to feed you every morning for forty years, what scientific explanation would you advance for that?

I do not believe in fairy tails. You mean, you survive eating mana that falls from the sky? Maybe you can try to eat a meteor, but, mana?

Agreed. But you DO understand that I find your non-belief just as whacky as you find my belief, right?

Yes, I do understand, but, I NEVER said that I don't have my beliefs/ideas. I know, it's hard for believers to understand/accept anything else outside the Bible; they're very open-minded.

What human have you ever heard of (that was not suffering from severe depression) who just crawled off into a corner to die when they got sick or badly injured? Self-preservation is not what I am talkinga bout. I am talking about the will to live.

Maybe you think that all the people in the world have the same opportunities to be healed? There are many countries where no matter how one is willing to survive, there are no hospitals around to heal him, he hasn't the money to
even pay for medical care, etc.. These people are desperate, and they know the reality: nobody is going to help them. Life isn't fair to them.

Animals give up their lives meekly when their injuries are beyond their ability to heal.

See above. Do you think, animals are giving up more easily than humans do? They have no choice.

Think about that, of all the 'animals' on this planet, only man needs to be brainwashed to accept his own death, without that brainwashing, he denies it and fights it to the bitterest end.

Man has consciouness and is intelligent. It's no easy for someone to know that the end is coming, either for (animal)Man or animals.

No other creature in nature has our fear and disdain of death. To us, it is unnatural and alien, a thing to be abhorred above all others.

It's not unnatural and alien for me, is it for you? Everything has an end. If we try to live longer, is that so bad for you? Maybe, we disrespect your God? Who cares?

And who among us do we revere the most? What professions are most noble and their practicioners obeyed nearly without question? Rescue workers and doctors, those who man the trenches against our millennias-old foe, Death. Who do we revile? Murderers and politicians, those who kill in person or by proxy. Who, among all others, do our emotions get confused and conflicted the most over? Soldiers and police, those who kill to protect citizens, or at the behest of politicians, to dominate them.

I agree with you: today's values are by no means "values".

So-called 'gentle' and 'almost-human' male great apes routinely establish pecking order in their troupes via rape, including homosexual rape.

First thing: apes are NOT the ancestors from the humans. You can say they were some kind of "relatives" at some time.
Second: not all kind of apes are the same or had the same evolution.
Third: don't be confused by the animal's behaviour: they're not intelligent, as Man is, and everything they do has a cause to their survival. This kind of comparisons have no meaning.