Puerto Rico as the 51st state

[onejayhawk]

Would they want to become a new state?

This is not a new issue. It has come up repeatedly and been voted down. The island already receives many benefits without some of the obligations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statehood_movement_in_Puerto_Rico

However, there is a debt crisis and Puerto Rico's Gov. Ricardo Rosselló is pushing for statehood as a means of bringing in money. There was a favorable referendum, but opponents boycotted the voting. In any event, it is just the first step of many.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/...tatehood-colonialism-root-debt-crisis-n777711

Would USA accept them?

This is also dubious. Of the 50 states, only Rhode Island and Delaware have less land though 20 states have fewer people. There are about 20 individual counties that are larger. A good comparison would be San Diego county, both for size and population.

More realistic would be a collection of islands, but the other large islands in the Caribbean Sea are independent countries--Cuba, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Jamaica. Cuba could reasonably petition for statehood on its own merits. Most likely it would require an assembly of all the others to merit serious consideration. Even then, there is little to attract attention other than tourism and some agriculture

Still, the idea is once again in the wind. What say you?

J

 

[Zelig]

Of the 50 states, only Rhode Island and Deleware have less land and fewer people.

Seems like a weird metric to bring up. There are 21 states with fewer people than Puerto Rico and 14 states with smaller economies.

 

[Birdjaguar]

In the past, such decisions were determined by those with the greatest potential to make money from the move to statehood. The change of status will allow for winners and losers. So it depends upon who stands to make money and if those people are politically connected.

 

[Zkribbler]

I've been intrigued by the idea ever since I was in high school and the island voted 95% to remain a commonwealth. As a commonwealth, it pays no federal income tax, it can't vote for President, but it does send delegates fo the conventions.

It won't be allowed to become a state in the near future because it's about 95% Democratic. Spanish is it's first language [but everyone also speaks English]. It's main religion is Catholic, which would be another cultural irritant.

Its prime importance would be as a first step if the U.S. ever decides to begin absorbing Latin American territories, e.g. Cuba and Baja California..

 

[Birdjaguar]

Would it be a good retirement home?

 

[inthesomeday]

The (shrinking and obsolete) liberal part of my brain says that it'd be great because it'd allow Puerto Ricans a much larger degree of freedom within the American political system and it'd be less of a colony, and that Puerto Rico would probably become a significant and reliable blue state.

The Commie part of my brain reminds me that Puerto Rico becoming a state would mean further license of the US government to wildly interfere in its people's lives, an extension of the US corporate globalization agenda, probably more soldiers to fight and die for corporations enlisting from Puerto Rico, and the onset of the destruction of the Puerto Rican peoples' cultures even further than has already occurred. Independence or nothing.

 

[onejayhawk]

Seems like a weird metric to bring up. There are 21 states with fewer people than Puerto Rico and 14 states with smaller economies.

That's my bad. Changed something and not everything. PR would rank 29th in population as of 2010. Roughly the population of Connecticut on 3/4 of the land area.

The (shrinking and obsolete) liberal part of my brain says that it'd be great because it'd allow Puerto Ricans a much larger degree of freedom within the American political system and it'd be less of a colony, and that Puerto Rico would probably become a significant and reliable blue state.

The Commie part of my brain reminds me that Puerto Rico becoming a state would mean further license of the US government to wildly interfere in its people's lives, an extension of the US corporate globalization agenda, probably more soldiers to fight and die for corporations enlisting from Puerto Rico, and the onset of the destruction of the Puerto Rican peoples' cultures even further than has already occurred. Independence or nothing.

With the examples set by the two countries on Hispanola, I am not sure that is the way to go. Jamaica, somewhat better.

J

 

[Perfection]

Star Trek says we should have 52 states by 2033

I support Puerto Rico statehood. By giving it statehood rights it would better fit into the US legal structure.

 

[inthesomeday]

That's my bad. Changed something and not everything. PR would rank 29th in population as of 2010. Roughly the population of Connecticut on 3/4 of the land area.


With the examples set by the two countries on Hispanola, I am not sure that is the way to go. Jamaica, somewhat better.

J

Haitian independence was glorious and then the country was gradually re-conquered by the Western world. I don't know much about Dominican independence but I'm fairly certain both they and Jamaica are still corporate colonies of the US and other western powers. Cuba was independent for decades but since they struck up diplomacy with the imperialists again who's to say anymore.

Meanwhile Cuban independence led the country to greater prosperity than any other Caribbean nation. Now I don't believe I'd call Cuba a "communist country" (because that's an oxymoron) but their independence from the West-- to more degrees than some vague political lie-- shows the merit of independence for Caribbean countries.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

There is a tremendous amount of hedge fund money relying on the fact that unlike a state PR cannot claim bankruptcy and default. There is no way on this planet that the people holding that debt allow statehood, and they own enough congresscritters to have their way.

 

[onejayhawk]

Haitian independence was glorious and then the country was gradually re-conquered by the Western world. I don't know much about Dominican independence but I'm fairly certain both they and Jamaica are still corporate colonies of the US and other western powers. Cuba was independent for decades but since they struck up diplomacy with the imperialists again who's to say anymore.

Meanwhile Cuban independence led the country to greater prosperity than any other Caribbean nation. Now I don't believe I'd call Cuba a "communist country" (because that's an oxymoron) but their independence from the West-- to more degrees than some vague political lie-- shows the merit of independence for Caribbean countries.

You have an odd definition of glorious.

Cuban independence led to a sharp decline in standard of living. If I were to guess at the 51st US state, Cuba would be the answer. It has natural resources the others do not and a population that would welcome the chance.

J

 

[Zelig]

Cuba makes more sense as a Canadian province than as a US.

 

[Cutlass]

PR has never been allowed to make the choice to be a state. And won't be in the foreseeable future. The problem is that when you require 50+% of the vote to get an outcome that changes the status quo, but you have 3 options, one of which is the status quo, the status quo tends to win by default. Even though it is the worst of all the options for most of the people. But there are always some that benefit from the status quo, an want that. Just enough so that neither of the other options can win.

And even if one of the other options won, Congress would still have to sign off on it. And that's not likely to happen. Too many of the special interests lobbying Congress are against change. In fact, Congress doesn't even need a referendum vote in PR. They could have done it themselves at any time in the past 100+ years. But have chosen not to.

Personally I am fundamentally against anyone being subject to a government that they cannot vote on and do not have representation in.

 

[onejayhawk]

Cuba makes more sense as a Canadian province than as a US.

Not geographically or culturally, or historically unless you count only the last 60 years.

J

 

[Synobun]

Not geographically or culturally, or historically unless you count only the last 60 years.

J

What is this even supposed to mean?

"Cuba makes more sense as a Canadian province... but only if we're looking at recent, relevant history. It should be American if we're using outdated info."

 

[bernie14]

Cuba makes more sense as a Canadian province than as a US.

why would you think that?

 

[onejayhawk]

What is this even supposed to mean?

"Cuba makes more sense as a Canadian province... but only if we're looking at recent, relevant history. It should be American if we're using outdated info."

It accepts that Canada did not take part in an embargo, so Canada and Cuba developed a trade relationship while USA was not participating. Having acknowledged this, it points out that this is a fairly minor and recent development.

J

 

[inthesomeday]

You have an odd definition of glorious.

Elaborate.

Cuban independence led to a sharp decline in standard of living.

This is actually a markedly false statement. Considering that before the revolution, Cuba was a destitute agrarian dictatorship, and that today it enjoys some of the world's greatest healthcare and education, I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

If I were to guess at the 51st US state, Cuba would be the answer. It has natural resources the others do not

Absolutely not, for precisely the reason you name. "Natural resources"-- which I assume you accept means for exploitation by the US corporations and government-- are precisely what the revolutionary heritage of the nation warns the people against giving up to imperialists.

and a population that would welcome the chance.

This is incredibly wrong. Cubans hate Americans.

 

[bernie14]

This is incredibly wrong. Cubans hate Americans.

what would give you that idea, aside from 60 years of brainwashing?

 

[Arwon]

This is also dubious. Of the 50 states, only Rhode Island and Delaware have less land

Pretty sure dirt doesn't vote, mate.