QIN (Industrious-Deity series)

[Alrin Kharr]

Diplomatic victories should be removed from the game. It seems a bit unrealistic to think someone with a 300 power rating could ever win the game. In my opinion, very boring and unspectacular.

There's plenty about Civ4 that's unrealistic. It's a game, meant to be played for fun. If you dislike diplomatic victories, you don't have to make use of them, or you can even just turn them off on the Custom Game screen if you feel that strongly about it.

 

[Crusher1]

Anyone can. That doesn't change my opinion. I'm sure a lot of people would agree with me. Common, it's a bit comical even seeing such a game posted.

 

[Lansky]

It's not entirely unrealistic, but okay it is a very large stretch. I enjoy seeing games won that I would lose 1,000/1,000 times. Seeing how the various aspects of the game can be blended together to turn a losing cause into a winning cause is what intrigues me most about Civilization.

 

[Earthling]

I think Crusher might have phrased this poorly, because there's one thing I strongly believe: the AP Diplo Victory shouldn't exist in any manner close to how it is now. Instead, the victory condition should require the same % of total population; there is no dependence on having religion in your cities. Then the only people eligible to vote are those who are running the state religion (so in this case a civ with the religion in only one of their cities votes their whole population worth, assuming they run the religion. However a diplo victory could be won with some civs not even voting, assuming the AP members had a high enough total pop among themselves in their vote, so it'd be unique that way too). I do think the AP is somewhat salvage-able, but these changes are necessary. It would also be nice if civs could reject a diplo victory in the first place (ie. declare permanent war on those supporting the victorious civ) - then the AP could lead to interesting holy-war type endgames.

About this game... looks really, really interesting obsolete. I know you don't post saves for people to shadow your games but I wonder if it could have worked to sail over and get a couple of cities on Kublai's island - having it to himself made him very strong. From this position it will certainly be a challenge even to win diplo, interested to see how it turns out!

 

[Bandobras Took]

Diplomatic victories should be removed from the game. It seems a bit unrealistic to think someone with a 300 power rating could ever win the game. In my opinion, very boring and unspectacular.

It's even more boring to kill people with the latest big gun, and yet that's also a victory condition . . .

 

[obsolete]

Somehow i think you won't win a space race or domination here .

Ohh, come now. You just need a little FAITH

Diplomatic victories should be removed from the game. It seems a bit unrealistic to think someone with a 300 power rating could ever win the game. In my opinion, very boring and unspectacular.

Hmm. I have only tried to go after this twice so, so I can't say for 100% but it does indeed seem to make things at least as easy as Epic speed. And possibly as easy as Marathon.

It just doesn't seem they worked it out that well, but there are some other issues with this I see a bit overpowering. That Holy-War is just rediculous. I"m surprised they even suggested to add this war-mechanic in the game. Why they haven't removed it yet has me still stumped.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Turn 200-210

Spoiler :

Popped another priest.

We ended up meeting Hatshepsut, and it looks like she was at war with both Monte and Khan. So that’s the rest of the mystery.

And then, we got one of those really stupid/dumb Greed quests. So insane...

Turn 210-220

Spoiler :

Nothing much to say... except I refuse everyone’s requests for a war. My first one screwed me enough, thank you...

Turn 220-230

Spoiler :

I was dumb, did not keep enough cash in reserve, and lost the chance for some good diplo bonuses. My problem was that I was in a rush to get to favourite civics first.

Turn 230-240

Spoiler :

Popped another priest.

Turn 240-250

Spoiler :

Ragnar gifts me Construction.

He then capitulates to Catherine.

Khan then gifts me alphabet.

Catherine then creates Napoleon.

Turn 250-260

Spoiler :

Hatshepsut vassals to Khan.

Catherine demands gold.

Monte who was at war with Justinian makes peace.

And here we take a look at a new feature of Bug 3.6. Notice the terrain improvement marker.

Turn 260-270

Spoiler :

We finally pop a scientist to build an academy.

Turn 270-280

Spoiler :

We are forced into theocracy by Justinian.

Kublai then ends up warring against Justinian, who was the master of Monte.

Khan demands we join his war... I decide to do so in order to fix our relations.

Also, this turn-set we finally made everyone a member of the AP.

Turn 280-290

Spoiler :

We didn’t even come close to diplo victory because Khan stabbed us in the back with the votes.

We popped a priest.

I then made peace with Justinian. I am not sure this was smart. I would have liked to war longer in order to further strengthen myself with Khan, but it’s possible I could have got left out high-to-dry if things went bad, and then I’d really be in a fix.

Turn 290-300

Spoiler :

Damn, Khan created Asoka, so now I have to send boats cross the map to do more spreading.

Monte, ends up vassaling to Khan, so then is forced to DoW on his own master. Haha, something seems terribly wrong in that mechanic.
Khan gifts me Philosophy.

As you can see, he switched out of Beuracracy quite some time ago and hasn’t bothered to switch back. And to think I thought I had a chance of getting civic-friendly with him... another waste.

Catherine dog-piles in on Justinian.

 

[Yamps]

Well, the moral of the story might be: don't go for AP win on Deity if you can win otherwise, leave that for the people not so comfortable with the level...

Free religion and Free speech...You look toasted, Obsolete.

Perhaps you could get him to change civics with spies, all on espionage points? I guess there's no room to plant cities for liberation bonuses...

Is he giving you "we don't like you enough" for civic switching even though his threshold is Pleased? That's a bug solved in unofficial patch. You wouldn't have anything to offer, but maybe he'd do it for a good friend?

 

[Joshua368]

Well I wouldn't say he's lost, but it's not exactly a glorious victory.

 

[d72]

since when have obs posted a loss? nevermind my rantings but hey obs keep up theese fun otherwise non think ofs wins. i like em as aim sure other slurkers do

 

[KingMorgan]

I think Crusher might have phrased this poorly, because there's one thing I strongly believe: the AP Diplo Victory shouldn't exist in any manner close to how it is now. Instead, the victory condition should require the same % of total population; there is no dependence on having religion in your cities. Then the only people eligible to vote are those who are running the state religion (so in this case a civ with the religion in only one of their cities votes their whole population worth, assuming they run the religion.

I don;t think this completly correct.

The only ones eligible to be voted resident are builder of AP (whilst running the AP religion) and anyone running the AP religion (full member). To call religious victory you must be resident and would be against a full member (if there is one) anyone who as the AP religion present in a city is a voting member.

So build AP in Christianty, vote yourself Pope, switch to a suitable religion, spread Christo to you friends - high pop cities, enemies lowest pop cities, hopfully with shared religion bonus ( usually non AP religion) you should win so long you don't have more than 75% of the votes yourself.

Hope what i've said is correct - it's a little complex.

 

[CivCorpse]

I don;t think this completly correct.

The only ones eligible to be voted resident are builder of AP (whilst running the AP religion) and anyone running the AP religion (full member). To call religious victory you must be resident and would be against a full member (if there is one) anyone who as the AP religion present in a city is a voting member.

So build AP in Christianty, vote yourself Pope, switch to a suitable religion, spread Christo to you friends - high pop cities, enemies lowest pop cities, hopfully with shared religion bonus ( usually non AP religion) you should win so long you don't have more than 75% of the votes yourself.

Hope what i've said is correct - it's a little complex.

Build AP in whatever religion you have that the AI is not running. Spread exactly one missionary to the crappiest low pop city of each AI....switch to AP religion and vote yourself the winner.

 

[PaulisKhan]

. I've never actually checked your logs, but have been meaning to of course given your space times.

Edit, though I've not checked, I'd be a little surprised if you used those leaders. Vicky dows at pleased, and the americans, while having high peace weights that would encourage global trading, are not techmongers in AI hands.

I find the AI techs too slowly for HoF regardless of who they are so I just treat them as conquest fodder. Excepting Churchill, the americans, indians and english (and Freddy) have the misfortune of being the most rushable civs in the game.



Look forward to seeing you sort out this diplomatic mess Obs.

 

[Earthling]

I don;t think this completly correct.

The only ones eligible to be voted resident are builder of AP (whilst running the AP religion) and anyone running the AP religion (full member). To call religious victory you must be resident and would be against a full member (if there is one) anyone who as the AP religion present in a city is a voting member.

So build AP in Christianty, vote yourself Pope, switch to a suitable religion, spread Christo to you friends - high pop cities, enemies lowest pop cities, hopfully with shared religion bonus ( usually non AP religion) you should win so long you don't have more than 75% of the votes yourself.

Hope what i've said is correct - it's a little complex.

No, I was proposing a new system. I know how it works now, but it sucks and should be changed... At any rate not trying to hijack the thread though, we'll see how obsolete can make use of the AP as it is now, hopefully for a win.

 

[fugazi]

Maybe you should've gotten a second (and or third) city up earlier to mass-produce units or whatever it is you need. But next to that, I love these kinds of games. Can't wait to see ze conclusion.

 

[Duckweed]

I know how it works now, but it sucks and should be changed...

I totally agree with you.

 

[obsolete]

Is he giving you "we don't like you enough" for civic switching even though his threshold is Pleased? That's a bug solved in unofficial patch.

These new diplo bugs really bug me to death. I am simply lost why it took a whole year to get a badly needed bug fix. And after all that... all that waiting.. and pushing, and begging for a fix... all this wait where fans were trying to be loyal to the game... and we get something that breaks such obvious things. It doesn't take a whole team of beta testers to tell you that barrage doesn't work.. diplo deals don't work. This is obvious from just a single game. Why is there not even a simple test done?

Now we wait another year for.....?

Due to the alarmingly bad track-reccord of Firaxis, I refused to waste more cash on Colonization. And after test-driving that game, I was certainly glad I didn't!

I have no problems donating money to a good quality product, but I really don't think Firaxis deserves it. Let IGN go eat it up... from their article reviews it appears they only played the game for 5 minutes anyway.

 

[obsolete]

Turns 300-304

Spoiler :

United Nations vote for Justinian I or Kublai as secretary comes around. Now why would we want to vote for either of these guys? Let the AI do the voting, since it’s really that stupid.
Anyhow, we spread a little more Christianity, and then change Kublai’s civs by force through espionage.
Turn #304 we pop an Engineer. Hmm, and exactly what can we do with it of value at this late stage? Hell, 1868AD ad we still haven’t even finished researching guilds yet, haha!

Turn 305

Spoiler :

The votes are in, and we win. Thanks to Kublai who voted for us, despite he was only at pleased and not friendly. Thank you Kublai!

Just think, how much we hated that SoB... who DoWed on us in BC and kept us stuck in a thousand years long war... to say it hurt us is an understatement. But now... he’s our bestest friend forever.

 

[obsolete]

Time to throw out some final statistics, etc. to bring this thread to a close. Just goes to show you that I was wrong about needing only 6 cities to win on Deity. Apparently you can get by with just 3 haha!

Spoiler :

 

[Yamps]

Congratulations on another win!

 

[royal62184]

I've been following these last two industrious games closely. They inspired me to try and get my first AP win. After reading several other threads I decided to give it a try. I dropped the difficulty from imm to monarch and gave it a shot and got my first win with it. This is what I did (I have a question at the end).

1) Got a prophet to bulb theology to make sure I get AP.
2) Built AP under christianity which I was the only person with.
3) Highly Spread the religion to two allies that would vote for me.
4) Spread the religion to the other civs to smallest cities of course.
5) Used religion/favorite civics to encourage them to vote for me.

The biggest problem I had was spreading it to all civs. Isabella would never open borders with me to spread the missionary to her. She wasn't under theocracy, so I tried the caravel/missionary trick as well and it didn't work. Did you encounter anything similar in these last two games, obs or anyone else for that matter? I dogpiled her in the beginning with sury/pacal for diplomatic points and i'm guessing I probably just screwed myself from there. Maybe next time spread to each civ before declaring any wars just to be safe? In the end she declared war on lincoln and captured a city with AP religion which eventually got me the win so I got lucky to say the least. Let me know what you guys think.

In conclusion, I hated this victory type it was so frustrating at times for me.