Question about women

[Elrohir]

I wish this thread were less full of male chauvinists.

What has been said here that is so chauvanistic? (And so much of it?) I don't see a whole lot that is blatantly misogynistic.

 

[Trajan12]

Now granted this is my conjecture, so don't take anything personally. I was initially going to phrase the subject; 'modern' women, but then it occured to me that it's really probably nothing new - it's just more free running & visible today.

So the question is, why are women bound and determined to emasculate men? I mean seriously - there is something going on along those lines, that you just can't deny. Heck, everyone here probably knows me, and can imagine that I don't take crap from anyone. But even still, even with me, women are constantly trying to set things up so that (in their silly minds) I'm being... controlled, limited, put in my place, etc. I believe it's this treatment, that they themselves are immersed in from early age... essentially misery loves company (a psychology that I find abounds throughout humanity). Maybe it's the way girls are treated, and expected to behave when growing up. They get 'fenced in', and pressure is put on them - that they are lesser, and should be limited.

Though, I can't help but feel there's more to it than just that. There IS some kind of DEEP, fundamental envy... or jealousy... something, that women are constantly struggling with their entire lives, and for some reason they can't resist the temptation to lash out and try to belittle men, at least in their point of view.

Maybe it's defensiveness... from instinct. Perhaps since the man just happens to be stronger, and 'equipped with a weapon', thus the female's instincts put her on the defensive. Well, what happens when people are defensive, for too long? Of course, eventually the stress reaches a point where the mind has to find another way to deal with it. So, it becomes more offensive. Everywhere you look... "women can do it, too." "Anything you can do, I can do better".

^Reminds me of when I was in the 7th grade, at a boarding school where I was the only 7th grader in the dorm (all the rest were 8th & 9th graders). Naturally, they messed with me... to skip the details, let's just say it was 'an extremely not fun' situation. So how did I ultimately come to react? Well, that was the moment when I first started to pump iron. I told myself that by the time I was in the 10th grade, and they were seniors, I was going to be able to kick all their @sses. I was bound and determined. --That's what defensiveness, and stress will lead you to. Essentially the survival instinct kicks in.

So that was a more extreme/concentrated example. But something along those lines is happening, I imagine. That's my theory. But, the question still stands. So, I just got done watching Hostel 2, and if you've seen that (really bad) movie, you'll know how that leads me into the next thought - which is that (my, at least) culture/media is on steriods, regarding the whole empowering of women, and emasculation of men. Let's not bother getting into the other debates... my focus is on WHY this tendency exists in the first place. Basically my gut is telling me there is some kind of fundamental flaw with humanity... I'm just trying to pinpoint exactly where.

Or... it could just merely be the 'throw tomatoes at people in power' sentiment, only on a MUCH more broad & level scale. I dunno, regardless it gets tiresome. And this idea that I'm required to tolerate it, and like it - is amusing insulting. To heck with perpetuating the species... there over 6 billion. There's no need for me to tolerate this crap. You only live once here (hopefully), and in the meantime I say this unpleasant societal element is not worth tolerating.

Maybe I should have taken that job in Japan.

I know why you're having trouble with women, you probably treat them like animals.

 

[Gainy]

sorry Lotus I lack the power to read ur entire post but the better question may be why are you asking?

 

[Bill3000]

What has been said here that is so chauvanistic? (And so much of it?) I don't see a whole lot that is blatantly misogynistic.

Of course you wouldn't, considering the fact that you're a fellow chauvinist and said the same crap before in earlier threads.

 

[Elrohir]

Of course you wouldn't, considering the fact that you're a fellow chauvinist and said the same crap before in earlier threads.

Me? A chauvinist? I never noticed.

 

[On Yer Flour]

"while the man sits on the floor wearing a dog collar, and polishing her excessive shoe collection"

This is pretty funny, because I know a fellow who is probably literally doing that, right now. Well actually at a more civil hour, but yesterday or today for sure.

Lotus, if this is a "why can't I meet a 'more traditional' woman" rather than a general rant about the state of the world today, I'd suggest that you get involved in the D/s community, where you'll find women that will probably adhere better to your ideals. Though if you think that all women should be that way, then the Dommes are going to really tick you off.



Well put. Ditto.

Hahaha... BDSM pride! <3
I was actually thinking of my favorite Domme while I read that.

 

[On Yer Flour]

I am an incredibly insecure man, and deep inside, all I want is to serve a properly Dominant woman.

Damn right, boy! Fetch Me some coffee.

 

[Mise]

Now granted this is my conjecture, so don't take anything personally. I was initially going to phrase the subject; 'modern' women, but then it occured to me that it's really probably nothing new - it's just more free running & visible today.

So the question is, why are women bound and determined to emasculate men? I mean seriously - there is something going on along those lines, that you just can't deny. Heck, everyone here probably knows me, and can imagine that I don't take crap from anyone. But even still, even with me, women are constantly trying to set things up so that (in their silly minds) I'm being... controlled, limited, put in my place, etc. I believe it's this treatment, that they themselves are immersed in from early age... essentially misery loves company (a psychology that I find abounds throughout humanity). Maybe it's the way girls are treated, and expected to behave when growing up. They get 'fenced in', and pressure is put on them - that they are lesser, and should be limited.

Though, I can't help but feel there's more to it than just that. There IS some kind of DEEP, fundamental envy... or jealousy... something, that women are constantly struggling with their entire lives, and for some reason they can't resist the temptation to lash out and try to belittle men, at least in their point of view.

Maybe it's defensiveness... from instinct. Perhaps since the man just happens to be stronger, and 'equipped with a weapon', thus the female's instincts put her on the defensive. Well, what happens when people are defensive, for too long? Of course, eventually the stress reaches a point where the mind has to find another way to deal with it. So, it becomes more offensive. Everywhere you look... "women can do it, too." "Anything you can do, I can do better".

^Reminds me of when I was in the 7th grade, at a boarding school where I was the only 7th grader in the dorm (all the rest were 8th & 9th graders). Naturally, they messed with me... to skip the details, let's just say it was 'an extremely not fun' situation. So how did I ultimately come to react? Well, that was the moment when I first started to pump iron. I told myself that by the time I was in the 10th grade, and they were seniors, I was going to be able to kick all their @sses. I was bound and determined. --That's what defensiveness, and stress will lead you to. Essentially the survival instinct kicks in.

So that was a more extreme/concentrated example. But something along those lines is happening, I imagine. That's my theory. But, the question still stands. So, I just got done watching Hostel 2, and if you've seen that (really bad) movie, you'll know how that leads me into the next thought - which is that (my, at least) culture/media is on steriods, regarding the whole empowering of women, and emasculation of men. Let's not bother getting into the other debates... my focus is on WHY this tendency exists in the first place. Basically my gut is telling me there is some kind of fundamental flaw with humanity... I'm just trying to pinpoint exactly where.

Or... it could just merely be the 'throw tomatoes at people in power' sentiment, only on a MUCH more broad & level scale. I dunno, regardless it gets tiresome. And this idea that I'm required to tolerate it, and like it - is amusing insulting. To heck with perpetuating the species... there over 6 billion. There's no need for me to tolerate this crap. You only live once here (hopefully), and in the meantime I say this unpleasant societal element is not worth tolerating.

Maybe I should have taken that job in Japan.

Ah yes, interesting comments, all. But you're not thinking deeply enough. Anyway, I think I've figured it out, anyways. To sum it up in 3 words: struggle for power. It's this same force that prevails throughout all of nature. I think it may be just that simple. I've thought about it... and it seems to me that women may have a sense (and RIGHTLY so...) that if men become too powerful, too immasculated, suddenly their world/existence becomes incredibly submissive, and overall - less fun. So, there's some kind of checks & balances system at work, but I still can't help but feel women try to sneak a little extra advantage in there, where they can. They're stealing the sheets, and setting things up to spoil themselves. Pure selfishness, may be the ultimate problem here. Another modern phenomenon.

Anyway, with regard to the 'silly little minds' comment, here are some of my favorite quotes, from recent times:

First, my supervisor (female, mid-30s), when referring to her overpowering urge to follow her biological instincts and 'go make some babies':



Hey, I didn't say it. And then, this one below I like even more. It's from my own mother. A highly intelligent, powerful woman... never backed down from a challenge, highly ambitious, very successful entrepreneur, always gets her way, "plays the game" just about as well as any women can, etc. - at the 'typical person' level of society anyway. But, after all her years, at around age 50 or so, she finally saw the light and confided in me her realization that:



Yes, no kidding. You know it, I know it. But this exercise of empowering women and emasculating men is cute, quaint and will probably lead to our certain DOOM. Hey, laugh now. The fabric of modern society has become unstable in many ways. How far can nature be pushed, before something fails?

Anyway, as for this 'men are doing it to themselves', idea... somebody's going to have to explain that one to me. I'm not saying I can't see it... I'm just saying I can't figure out the root cause(s) / motivation for it. My first instinct would be to say that since women are being empowered, men feel that their rightful place and duties have been trespassed intruded upon - thus they feel like a lame duck. Then some kind of depression or worthlessness sets in, I don't know - it's not something I can relate to, since I believe it can only be taken from you, if you let it.

But maybe that is the bigger story - the decline of masculinity. It's d@mn sickening. One might even be tempted to say the very glory of mankind is dying. Instead, all the glory is being shifted over to the WEAK side. What sense does that make? That would be like relocating your house off it's rocky foundation, and over to some soft, marshy land. Hey, it's your species - I'm just looking at it from an objective, outsider point of view. Just think about what you're doing, that's all.

In fact my own supervisor just said the other day, "I prefer men with the Euro look." Euro?, I asked. I then said, "You mean... metrosexual, I take it". She responded, "Oh yeah, that's another way to put it, but it's not as nice".

THERE!! That is the real flippin' problem... I honestly believe! Women have become so girly, they don't even like real men anymore! It's a consequence of all this sitting inside, never working, modern stress, bad diet, etc. CRAP that now dominates our lives. Gone are the days when boys were actually raised to be men, and now WOMEN themselves have such low testosterone, they barely pass for adolescent females when it comes to their own sexual desires / preferences.

There's something going on... look at Russia, all the rest of the developed world for that matter. I say, the march of masculinity is reversing itself. Weakness, and sissiness is going to dominate, and eventually testosterone levels will drop to the point where we'll all have to go to clinics to get pregnant, because men don't 'have the right stuff' anymore, and the whole system has shut down on itself. Hey, look around - this is already starting to happen at clinics everywhere. We're breeding weakness.

I don't think nature is the problem at all... I think the problem is nature is being BLOCKED from doing it's work. And the worst part is... women... who in some sense are supposed to act as quality control, are actually favoring this new modern emasculated type man. They're doing the exact opposite of what their ancestors did successfully for ages, and now they think it's all so funny, as the alpha female syndrome sets in, and they sit on their plush beds eating chocolates and watching drama TV shows, while the man sits on the floor wearing a dog collar, and polishing her excessive shoe collection.

I'm telling you - it won't be too difficult to breed high testosterone levels out of the human genome. Reproduction will become a serious problem further down the road, and weakness will reach critical mass, in some way/shape/form. I see it coming. It's actually been a trend for some time, decades well before I was even born. It's all so pathetic. Modern man has allowed himself to be disgraced, and it's his own fault. Why? Because it only happens, if you submit and let it happen. I don't know which is worse; these modern pathetic excuses for men walking around, or, the women that seem to be so attracted to them. Attracted... because it's easy. It's 'easy' to date a wuss. Easy to control. You're not going to be controlling a real man, so why mess with that? Thus, the species starts to decline...

...and it's all because women were given more power. "Oh yes, I don't want a real man... give me the wuss! Now excuse me while I go thump my bible down to Congress, and pressure them to get Prohibition enacted - yes, I know what I'm doing!"

They can't be trusted. They don't see the big picture. And now they're going to be making the decisions. Gee, does anyone know what happens when you have incompetent leadership in the military? A similar scenario of what will happen with society, overall. Hey, good luck.

Maybe it's cos they know you get so worked up over it...

 

[On Yer Flour]

I have managed to evolve right along with the times. Not all of us are neanderthals.



Try giving a woman what she wants, and you might find life more fulfilling. It could give you a purpose beyond self-gratification. It could make you a part of something greater than yourself alone. I realize that most of someone's sexual experience might be masturbation or one-sided sex, but try to see - mutual satisfaction is much better.

I think I'm going to give up on this thread. Let the sexist neanderthals rant all they want. They are a dying breed that offers ZERO competition with me, so what do they matter anyway. I would not want a girlfriend who would be with a sexist guy (low self-esteem chicks are a drag), but sexist's ex-girlfriends (and current girlfriends) make great one night stands. Even if it isn't long term, they deserve some joy in their life and are astonishingly grateful when they encounter a homo sapien.

Hahahaha... I'm with you on this.
Since when do all women "really want" to submit? Some do, some don't; some aren't interested in power games at all. Some might even want both (me, for example)!

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

I have managed to evolve right along with the times. Not all of us are neanderthals.

Good for you. Perhaps you should let all the women of the world know that, because they haven't.

Try giving a woman what she wants, and you might find life more fulfilling. It could give you a purpose beyond self-gratification. It could make you a part of something greater than yourself alone. I realize that most of someone's sexual experience might be masturbation or one-sided sex, but try to see - mutual satisfaction is much better.

This is what women want. They want to be lead by a man. That's why it's so easy to call their bluff. They're counting on a strong man who can lead them. However, women rarely have insight into this aspect of their nature, and feminism has convinced them that they should want equality, while their instincts say otherwise. Sex is no different. Just because I may be leading a woman in sex doesn't mean that she gains no satisfaction. On the contrary, she gains more!

I think I'm going to give up on this thread. Let the sexist neanderthals rant all they want. They are a dying breed that offers ZERO competition with me, so what do they matter anyway. I would not want a girlfriend who would be with a sexist guy (low self-esteem chicks are a drag), but sexist's ex-girlfriends (and current girlfriends) make great one night stands. Even if it isn't long term, they deserve some joy in their life and are astonishingly grateful when they encounter a homo sapien.

We aren't worried about your competition.

 

[On Yer Flour]

This is what women want. They want to be lead by a man. That's why it's so easy to call their bluff. They're counting on a strong man who can lead them. However, women rarely have insight into this aspect of their nature, and feminism has convinced them that they should want equality, while their instincts say otherwise. Sex is no different. Just because I may be leading a woman in sex doesn't mean that she gains no satisfaction. On the contrary, she gains more!

Do not dare to tell me what I feel, and what I want. I have never, in any way, felt the need to spend my life controlled by a man. True, I sometimes submit to men within a BDSM setting - and sometimes I submit to women. More often, I'm the one on top. I feel absolutely no responsibility to assume the submissive, nurturing role my relationships - if it feels right, I might consider it, but usually it feels right to be on top, and usually, I AM on top. I have had the pleasure of knowing many submissive men, and they are not, by and large, "weak" or "sissies" - to the contrary! It takes a strong man to set his ego aside, to take what's given him, and to serve when the going gets tough. I frankly don't think that a man like you could handle it.

If you're such a damned shining specimen of manhood, do the strong thing - the difficult thing - and learn to share the world with women. I can't speak for other women, but I for one am not trying to subjugate men. I just want equal status. I want gender not to be such an issue.

 

[Gainy]

need to butt in here to point out my lecturerer said neaderthals were misunderstood make love not war

 

[Eukaryote]

Now granted this is my conjecture, so don't take anything personally. I was initially going to phrase the subject; 'modern' women, but then it occured to me that it's really probably nothing new - it's just more free running & visible today.

So the question is, why are women bound and determined to emasculate men? I mean seriously - there is something going on along those lines, that you just can't deny. Heck, everyone here probably knows me, and can imagine that I don't take crap from anyone. But even still, even with me, women are constantly trying to set things up so that (in their silly minds) I'm being... controlled, limited, put in my place, etc. I believe it's this treatment, that they themselves are immersed in from early age... essentially misery loves company (a psychology that I find abounds throughout humanity). Maybe it's the way girls are treated, and expected to behave when growing up. They get 'fenced in', and pressure is put on them - that they are lesser, and should be limited.

Though, I can't help but feel there's more to it than just that. There IS some kind of DEEP, fundamental envy... or jealousy... something, that women are constantly struggling with their entire lives, and for some reason they can't resist the temptation to lash out and try to belittle men, at least in their point of view.

Maybe it's defensiveness... from instinct. Perhaps since the man just happens to be stronger, and 'equipped with a weapon', thus the female's instincts put her on the defensive. Well, what happens when people are defensive, for too long? Of course, eventually the stress reaches a point where the mind has to find another way to deal with it. So, it becomes more offensive. Everywhere you look... "women can do it, too." "Anything you can do, I can do better".

^Reminds me of when I was in the 7th grade, at a boarding school where I was the only 7th grader in the dorm (all the rest were 8th & 9th graders). Naturally, they messed with me... to skip the details, let's just say it was 'an extremely not fun' situation. So how did I ultimately come to react? Well, that was the moment when I first started to pump iron. I told myself that by the time I was in the 10th grade, and they were seniors, I was going to be able to kick all their @sses. I was bound and determined. --That's what defensiveness, and stress will lead you to. Essentially the survival instinct kicks in.

So that was a more extreme/concentrated example. But something along those lines is happening, I imagine. That's my theory. But, the question still stands. So, I just got done watching Hostel 2, and if you've seen that (really bad) movie, you'll know how that leads me into the next thought - which is that (my, at least) culture/media is on steriods, regarding the whole empowering of women, and emasculation of men. Let's not bother getting into the other debates... my focus is on WHY this tendency exists in the first place. Basically my gut is telling me there is some kind of fundamental flaw with humanity... I'm just trying to pinpoint exactly where.

Or... it could just merely be the 'throw tomatoes at people in power' sentiment, only on a MUCH more broad & level scale. I dunno, regardless it gets tiresome. And this idea that I'm required to tolerate it, and like it - is amusing insulting. To heck with perpetuating the species... there over 6 billion. There's no need for me to tolerate this crap. You only live once here (hopefully), and in the meantime I say this unpleasant societal element is not worth tolerating.

Maybe I should have taken that job in Japan.

I'm sorry (well actully not sorry at all) to say that I never have problems with anybody trying to emasculate me. I think if women are trying to emasculate you it's because you're expecting it and drawing those types of women into your life. Or perhaps they're not trying to emasculate you, instead as much as you may hate to hear it, they are trying to reject you and you take it in a bad way. Or maybe they're just testing you, and if you passed those tests by learning to be funny, confident, social and masculine you'd be left alone.

Good luck pal. I hope you find your way.

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

Do not dare to tell me what I feel, and what I want. I have never, in any way, felt the need to spend my life controlled by a man. True, I sometimes submit to men within a BDSM setting - and sometimes I submit to women. More often, I'm the one on top. I feel absolutely no responsibility to assume the submissive, nurturing role my relationships - if it feels right, I might consider it, but usually it feels right to be on top, and usually, I AM on top. I have had the pleasure of knowing many submissive men, and they are not, by and large, "weak" or "sissies" - to the contrary! It takes a strong man to set his ego aside, to take what's given him, and to serve when the going gets tough. I frankly don't think that a man like you could handle it.

It's funny how you bring up BDSM even though I never did. In fact, I'm not even into it.

If you're such a damned shining specimen of manhood, do the strong thing - the difficult thing - and learn to share the world with women. I can't speak for other women, but I for one am not trying to subjugate men. I just want equal status. I want gender not to be such an issue.

If you want equality, it should be in all things. There should be no legal or social expectations. Women should be subject to military draft, not entitled to public assistance for keeping bastard children, not entitled to pregnancy leave. Socially, women should be expected to approach men for dates, and arrive on all beaches topless. Public toilets should be unisex. After all, equality, right?

 

[On Yer Flour]

It's funny how you bring up BDSM even though I never did. In fact, I'm not even into it.



If you want equality, it should be in all things. There should be no legal or social expectations. Women should be subject to military draft, not entitled to public assistance for keeping bastard children, not entitled to pregnancy leave. Socially, women should be expected to approach men for dates, and arrive on all beaches topless. Public toilets should be unisex. After all, equality, right?

I know you didn't bring BDSM up, but it's relevant to the discussion.
NOBODY should be subject to military draft.
There should be greater equality in the child support system, true.
OF COURSE we should have pregnancy leave! How can a woman reasonably be expected to go through pregnancy and work at the same time? If men bore children, I'd want pregnancy leave for men, too.
Many more women ARE approaching men for dates.
Regarding toplessness, I believe in a clothing-optional society, so... yes. It's high time people learned to be comfortable with their own and each other's bodies instead of hiding them away.
More unisex toilets would be wonderful.
While we're at it, let's get better rights for transgendered people, too.

 

[Grisu]

oh it's generalize-o-rama

From my experience some women want to be controlled, some want to be in control and some want neither....just like men incidentally

sorry if that makes it too hard for you and your "us" vs. "them" scheme but that't the way it is

 

[On Yer Flour]

oh it's generalize-o-rama

From my experience some women want to be controlled, some want to be in control and some want neither....just like men incidentally

sorry if that makes it too hard for you and your "us" vs. "them" scheme but that't the way it is

Thank you, thank you! Finally, someone who's not getting all up in a huff about it (I know, I'm one of the up-huffers).

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

I know you didn't bring BDSM up, but it's relevant to the discussion.

No it isn't. BDSM is a fetish that only plays out in a limited context. It has nothing to do with the grand scheme of male-female interaction, especially since it is hardly embraced by the general population. It certainly isn't embraced by me. I have absolutely no interest in it whatsoever. I think you read far too much into this than there is. I would go so far as to say this whole discussion has nothing to do with sex. Once two people are naked, there's usually little argument about what to do because it is a natural act and easily acted on by instinct.

This discussion has to do with the nature of women's psyche, something that few people, male or female, have insight into, including people like you who make unrelated connections.

NOBODY should be subject to military draft.

Perhaps you should start a revolution to overthrown the state, because Congress is authorized to draft people in times of war.

There should be greater equality in the child support system, true.

I don't see any woman working towards that goal, as women are quite satisfied with the advantage the current system offers. The advantage is that a woman can get pregnant by a man, even by trickery (example: lying about being on the pill, or poking holes in condoms), deliver the baby and then demand child support payments from a man for a baby he never wanted. If it were really fair, women would be left to their own devices if they got knocked up, leaving the father to his own discretion.

OF COURSE we should have pregnancy leave! How can a woman reasonably be expected to go through pregnancy and work at the same time? If men bore children, I'd want pregnancy leave for men, too.

I guess you never heard that it takes sperm to generate children. AFAIK, men have only a couple of weeks, or less, of leave time when their children are born. If it were fair, they'd have the same leave time as mothers. So if you want equality, either make it no leave or the same. Which is it going to be?

Many more women ARE approaching men for dates.

In my entire life, I have been asked out only twice, and of those 2 times, one flaked and cancelled out on the very date she invited. Yet, I am considered good looking and a catch. The closest I usually get to being invited on dates is women trying to entice me to ask them out. Or, a woman may try to hover around me to lure me to talk to her. Never do they take initiative, so I am always the one who has to ask women out. (Which I do, frequently. However, I don't ask, I just tell her where we're going and what we're doing. I get better results that way.)

It has been 40 years since the women's movement and there has been no change in women's behavior in this regard. This should tell you that there never will be. Women are far too comfortable with the status quo, despite their protestations and excuse-mongering. Yes, there is the occasional pink elephant and blue lobster who has balls and actually takes initiative, but they are rare.

 

[downtown]

For what its worth, I have actually been asked out more than I've asked people.

 

[Brighteye]

For what its worth, I have actually been asked out more than I've asked people.

Me too. But more by gay men than by women.

I was chatting to two women yesterday night, and they mentioned that want a man they can respect, but they also like to have control.

It sounds reasonable, doesn't it? And yet it's exactly what I mentioned in my last post: if you keep on exerting control, you lose respect for the man. If the man can stand up for himself, he does so, and you don't have the control you wanted.

I'm sure that there is a happy medium. It's just that even when they said it, these two didn't notice that the two things are mostly contradictory. If a woman is struggling to have as much control as possible, and yet is looking for a man who doesn't give in, which is how these two women defined what they'd respect ('a man you can't just slap around all the time'), she's probably going to be frustrated.

I would have picked up on the point, but it was getting late, and I didn't want to spend all night at it.