Afforess
The White Wizard
The poll is fairly evenly devided here... What do you guys think of Cykur's suggestion? Yah? Nay?
Question of The Week: Crossbowman
- Thread starter Afforess
- Start date
Yay.
RobO
King
Yah (why do I need to post 5 characters?)
Alorente
Warlord
I agree 100% with Cykur. I don't bother with Longbowmen now, I go straight from Archer to Crossbow to Musketman.
By the way, I still see a problem with being able to beeline to produce the Musketman. Lately, all my games are following the same line.
1- Concentrate fully on research (Build Academies with GS, Build research Wonders, Change to producing Research in major cities as soon as possible, etc.) the first quarter of the game.
2- Beeline to Matchlock.
3- 20 turns before reaching Matchlock, increase gold in Treasury considerably by lowering research somewhat, etc. (3,000 to 4,000 gold will do).
3- Upon reaching matchlock, upgrade all your archers, axemen, crossbowmen, etc to musketmen.
4- Immediately slaughter thy neighbors one by one or make them your vassals.
5- Win an easy Domination Victory.
It hasn't failed in any game at various difficulty levels. The AI still has crossbowmen and some Arquebussiers when I reach the ability to make Musketmen every single time.
I would penalize beelining in some way to counter this easy solution. It has to be changed in some way or replayability as it stands is limited.
Supercheese
Zeppelin Commander
Don't musketmen require Flintlock, not Matchlock?
Alorente
Warlord
Sorry, I meant Flintlock.
This brings up another point, shouldn't machinery require smithing? Early forms of machinery often required metal parts made by a competent smith.
ANTIKYTHERA!!!!!!!! smithing refers to Medieval Smithing therefore it isn't needed
os79
Deity
Btw, Zappara put crossbowmen at Engineering in 2.9. You planning to stay with this change or will you do your own changes?
Afforess
The White Wizard
IDK, I need to play a game of just 2.9 before I decide anything.
Afforess
The White Wizard
I looked for a while, but there was no art for a "Light Crossbowman", or anything like it.
Lord Brooks
Big Noob
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2009
- Messages
- 83
This might be useful?
My understanding of it is the crossbow tended to supercede the longbow in most offensive European armies from the twelfth century and lasted until about 1500 AD. Although a longbow is just as accurate over short distances it's much more accurate at long range and has a faster shooting rate than your average crossbow, crossbows are better at penetrating armour and can be used effectively after a week of training, while a comparable single-shot kill with a longbow takes years of practice.
Crossbowmen therefore tended to be used in conjunction with pikemen (for protection against mounted units) in offensive battles. Longbowmen set up defensive positions on high ground or behind a barrier, such as a wall or stakes. Longbowman were most effective when prepared and fortified against a charge. The longbow was used to great effect defensively from about 1250AD-1450AD.
Longbowmen where used most effectively in the Battle of Agincourt because of the muddy terrain, so maybe they should get a 25% bonus on marshland?
In summary I think;
Crossbowmen should be cheaper to build and get +20% or +30% bonus when attacking melee units.
Longbowmen should be more expensive and get +30% or 50% bonus when defending and get a +25% bonus on marshland or hills.
My understanding of it is the crossbow tended to supercede the longbow in most offensive European armies from the twelfth century and lasted until about 1500 AD. Although a longbow is just as accurate over short distances it's much more accurate at long range and has a faster shooting rate than your average crossbow, crossbows are better at penetrating armour and can be used effectively after a week of training, while a comparable single-shot kill with a longbow takes years of practice.
Crossbowmen therefore tended to be used in conjunction with pikemen (for protection against mounted units) in offensive battles. Longbowmen set up defensive positions on high ground or behind a barrier, such as a wall or stakes. Longbowman were most effective when prepared and fortified against a charge. The longbow was used to great effect defensively from about 1250AD-1450AD.
Longbowmen where used most effectively in the Battle of Agincourt because of the muddy terrain, so maybe they should get a 25% bonus on marshland?
In summary I think;
Crossbowmen should be cheaper to build and get +20% or +30% bonus when attacking melee units.
Longbowmen should be more expensive and get +30% or 50% bonus when defending and get a +25% bonus on marshland or hills.
Great infomation, but they did well in Agincourt because the knights sucked at marshland land combat, or more accurately slogging through knee deep mud over many miles and having a massive peasant wave charge trampling them to death, yeah not so much Longbow=awesome but more of knight+Marshland=weak
Antmanbrooks
Prince
Yeah that's true, what I was trying to illustrate (with my other account) was that a well positioned unit of longbowmen can kick the ass of much more powerful troops given a terrain advantage that suits them. Knights, footsoldiers, crossbowmen, pikemen etc would all suffer against lightly equiped longbowmen well positioned on a hill or in boggy terrain. The fact is the English used the terrain that suited their army (comprised mostly of longbowmen) any other unit, including crossbowmen would not have been so effective on the muddy terrain.
Grathocke
Marquis
If I remember correctly, crossbows were a medieval era idea. The Roman church strongly opposed them as they put too much power into the hands of peasants at the cost of many knights. Speaking of which, crossbows should have more power against knights than against melee units.
