Questions About Adam and Eve

No offense to anyone who believes, but it seems very sketchy to me that every single organization that offers eternal life hinges this promise on your belief in something mysterious and not fully evident. "You will see it if you want to". Again, no offense, but my scamdar just goes off when I hear something like that, no matter if it's religious in nature or a guy on the street offering me a great deal on a speaker system.

I would gladly accept eternal life if someone offered it to me in circumstances that were not so.. sketchy.

No offense to anyone who is trying to direct his life by the evident. But evidently we dont have the complete knowledge of reality so some sort of faith will always be necessary. E.g. we dont know the future and do not have "full evidence" for whatever will happen to us yet that is no reason for us to stop living. That said great caution and discretion is recommended. Evidently.

Btw. when are you going to Bankok?

Edit: You dont need to accept eternal life. Becouse of your soul you are immortal. Whoever tries to conditionaly offer it to you is only selling you something you already have.
 
No offense to anyone who is trying to direct his life by the evident. But evidently we dont have the complete knowledge of reality so some sort of faith will always be necessary. E.g. we dont know the future and do not have "full evidence" for whatever will happen to us yet that is no reason for us to stop living. That said great caution and discretion is recommended. Evidently.

I should have never started this tangent, but whatever, I have to deal with it now. :scan:

By "not fully evident" I meant that a lot of religions ask of you to use something other than your 5 senses. There is usually a promise of eternal life in a nice place, but it hinges of your acceptance of something that is mostly or only accessible that way.

That seems sketchy to me because I know my 5 senses relatively well. I have read the wikipedia article on senses. There are a couple more than the 5, depending on your definition. From what I've been taught in school, it's pretty much a solid summary of what we know about human senses, so it's not just some jackass editing out the sixth sense on wikipedia or whatever.

I readily admit that there could be a bunch of senses we don't know about. Who knows, right?? We don't know everything.. Who knows how much we know.

But when someone offers you something incredible and it hinges on something we don't know about, it makes me think it's suspicious. Life is full of decisions you have to make, and if someone comes to the table with not enough information and offers you the world.. it will always seem sketchy to me.

Btw. when are you going to Bankok?

Just over a month and a half from now! I'm pretty excited.. still working on the exact itinerary, if there's going to be one in the first place, and doing a lot of research. The "to do before the flight" list is growing too, not to mention work. It's going to be a hectic next couple weeks, but the payoff is going to be amazing.

Edit: You dont need to accept eternal life. Becouse of your soul you are immortal. Whoever tries to conditionaly offer it to you is only selling you something you already have.

I figure that if any of the afterlife is true, it will all revealed to me then. And if I'm told that I should have accepted this religion or that, all I can really say is: "Sorry dude, life is short, your representatives back on Earth did a really crappy job recruiting me to your organization. I was not even convinced of your existence at all. Do you know how many people try to get you to join this or that? There is so much spam in the world that you have to be very selective about what information you accept into your consciousness. Unfortunately you ended up in the discard pile and I feel horrible about it, because from what I've heard you do some nasty crap to people who are in my position... I hope that's not true, because you seem like a good guy, and by the way thank you for creating the Universe and giving me a lifetime in it, I can't find the words to express my gratitude at having experienced all that - even my ex-wife. Heh heh, I hope you have a sense of humour.. Errr.. Please don't torture me for the rest of eternity"

I have faith in God! He is probably a swell guy, if he exists. The kind of deity you'd want to have a respectful beer with. Not someone who makes sure that you get molten lava up your butt for breakfast for all eternity due to a technicality.
 
How do you know for sure he didn't take a wife? I suspect you are correct, of course, but I don't recall The Bible actually stating categorically anywhere that he did not take a wife. It just never mentions him doing so.
Yeah, and if he didn't, where did all the Merovingians come from?

No offense to anyone who is trying to direct his life by the evident. But evidently we dont have the complete knowledge of reality so some sort of faith will always be necessary. E.g. we dont know the future and do not have "full evidence" for whatever will happen to us yet that is no reason for us to stop living. That said great caution and discretion is recommended. Evidently.
It's just that this particular source doesn't do much to actually compel me to put faith in it.
 
I readily admit that there could be a bunch of senses we don't know about. Who knows, right?? We don't know everything.. Who knows how much we know.
Its not just senses but mind and its unknown higher levels. Mental faculty has greater strenght then senses but by controling the mind one can see if there is anything beyond.


Just over a month and a half from now! I'm pretty excited.. still working on the exact itinerary, if there's going to be one in the first place, and doing a lot of research. The "to do before the flight" list is growing too, not to mention work. It's going to be a hectic next couple weeks, but the payoff is going to be amazing.
Then watching Hangover 2 is essential for you...

Heh heh, I hope you have a sense of humour.. Errr.. Please don't torture me for the rest of eternity"
There is so much humor all around. Like the main defender of democracy secretly supporting terorists, peoples who main maxim is to love others and turn the other cheek declar wars and burn others for opinions and so on... Do you think whoever created such a humorous universe has no sense of humour?

It's just that this particular source doesn't do much to actually compel me to put faith in it.
No worries as long as you have some kind of faith you will be just fine...
 
When I was growing up in a very religious society, the emphasis was very much on the lessons learned from the stories, and not so much "This stuff actually happened". But I'm sure some people here and there actually believed that the garden of eden actually existed. I bet you the older of a person you asked, the more likely it would be for them to agree with that.

I don't think that it is really an age thing. I think that how the Bible is accepted comes and goes in waves. My theory is that it depends on how much a religion is accepted. I tend to think that being religious is totally different than accepting God and the Bible. Religions in my opinion tend to pick and choose and thus emphasize certain items from the Bible to back a human agenda.

Religions are similar to politics and in some cases they act hand in hand. Even in the Bible if a group tends to emphasize too much on any one aspect they tend to neglect other issues that are just as important.
 
How do you know for sure he didn't take a wife? I suspect you are correct, of course, but I don't recall The Bible actually stating categorically anywhere that he did not take a wife. It just never mentions him doing so.

A glaring omission to be sure.

Yeah, and if he didn't, where did all the Merovingians come from?
By some weird coincidence (:dubious:):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbogast
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salic_law

It's just that this particular source doesn't do much to actually compel me to put faith in it.
Maybe it's not meant to do so if you aren't compelled in a certain way (or more accurately, away from a certain path).

By "not fully evident" I meant that a lot of religions ask of you to use something other than your 5 senses. There is usually a promise of eternal life in a nice place, but it hinges of your acceptance of something that is mostly or only accessible that way.
Or along with... there may be a requirement of some kind in there.

I figure that if any of the afterlife is true, it will all revealed to me then. And if I'm told that I should have accepted this religion or that, all I can really say is: "Sorry dude, life is short, your representatives back on Earth did a really crappy job recruiting me to your organization. I was not even convinced of your existence at all. Do you know how many people try to get you to join this or that? There is so much spam in the world that you have to be very selective about what information you accept into your consciousness. Unfortunately you ended up in the discard pile and I feel horrible about it, because from what I've heard you do some nasty crap to people who are in my position... I hope that's not true, because you seem like a good guy, and by the way thank you for creating the Universe and giving me a lifetime in it, I can't find the words to express my gratitude at having experienced all that - even my ex-wife. Heh heh, I hope you have a sense of humour.. Errr.. Please don't torture me for the rest of eternity"
To which you might respond, "Try that again."
 
I'd prefer to hear a summary in your own words, as well as your take on what the article said, which parts you agree with, which parts you disagree with, and how it relates to what we're discussing.

Otherwise it's just kind of pointless :)

Basically I would be repeating basically everything in the article. Brief summary is this. Genesis 1:1-2:4 is from God's perspective. From then on we see Creation from Man's perspective from inside the garden, until God kicks them out for disobedience. It is the same story just from a different pov.
 
I don't think that it is really an age thing. I think that how the Bible is accepted comes and goes in waves. My theory is that it depends on how much a religion is accepted.

Catholicism was and continues to be a rather large and integral part of what it means to be Polish and Polish culture in general. This was even more true when communism was around. The religion was accepted 100%, just not in a literal sense, because.. well.. Poland is a rather well educated country. A lot of conflicts arise between the Bible and science if you try to read the Bible and understand it fully literally.

So I'm not sure if it's a question of acceptance. When I was growing up in communist Poland, pretty much everyone went to church every sunday. That doesn't even happen in the southern states I bet. And yep, I mean everyone, except maybe some homeless.

Basically I would be repeating basically everything in the article. Brief summary is this. Genesis 1:1-2:4 is from God's perspective. From then on we see Creation from Man's perspective from inside the garden, until God kicks them out for disobedience. It is the same story just from a different pov.

I think apologies are in order because that really did seem like a drive by link post, which I've seen you do before. Those generally suck because they don't contribute to the discussion at all.

I'll have to read through that one day when I have time. Not that I believe any of it, but I wouldn't mind at least understanding what's going on ;)
 
Catholicism was and continues to be a rather large and integral part of what it means to be Polish and Polish culture in general. This was even more true when communism was around. The religion was accepted 100%, just not in a literal sense, because.. well.. Poland is a rather well educated country. A lot of conflicts arise between the Bible and science if you try to read the Bible and understand it fully literally.

So I'm not sure if it's a question of acceptance. When I was growing up in communist Poland, pretty much everyone went to church every sunday. That doesn't even happen in the southern states I bet. And yep, I mean everyone, except maybe some homeless.

My point being religion is a replacement for the Bible, as seeing how the Bible does not really give specific instructions for living. That is why religion is accepted instead of the Bible. The key word being specific. While all humans are equal in their humanity, they are unique in their personhood. Religion does narrow things down to fit a certain niche in society. Even though I hold that the Bible is the Word of God and can be used to teach, and applies to all, it is God that does the application of that process, not humans which would include all religions, denominations, and even "setting up" of all gods in human history.
 
Yeah, and if he didn't, where did all the Merovingians come from?

It's interesting how much Dan Brown and Biblical literalism have in common, really. They're both wildly popular and attested (and frequently believed) to be completely accurate, yet they're also both riddled with inconsistencies (to say the least).
 
Genesis 1:1-2:4 is from God's perspective. From then on we see Creation from Man's perspective from inside the garden, until God kicks them out for disobedience. It is the same story just from a different pov.

God didn't kick them out for disobedience

And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

God kicked them out so they couldn't partake of the tree of life and live forever
 
If the Garden of Eden is ever found, do you guys think we'll find Lilith's grave, and upon examination we find suspicion that she was whacked by oh... say a jealous other lover of Adam's?
 
The Garden is probably under the Persian Gulf, they've identified 2 "fossil" rivers flowing out of Iran and Arabia that joined the Tigris and Euphrates to form 1 river flowing south to the Indian Ocean

If the Flood story is tied into the rising seas when the ice age ended then the Garden story is set during the ice age when seas were 3-4 hundred ft lower

as for Lilith, she supposedly took up with demons so she may be the one of the 3 that lived "forever"
 
What is the canonical explanation for the observation that the Garden of Eden doesn't still exist?
 
Bah, no one took my bait :(
 
It's interesting how much Dan Brown and Biblical literalism have in common, really. They're both wildly popular and attested (and frequently believed) to be completely accurate, yet they're also both riddled with inconsistencies (to say the least).

Are you saying that a contradiction and an inconsistency are the same thing? The Bible was written from a human perspective for the most part. Humans are going to be inconsistent and sometimes even contradictory at times. Does Dan Brown want to be compared to God? One can view the Bible as a just a bunch of human stories, or they can accept it as God's interaction with humans from a human perspective. How could the first chapter of Genesis contain all that happened during the first 6 days of a complex creation? How can chapter 2 do justice to even two humans in a garden full of animals? If one wants to brake down and analyze the difference between stars and humans and point out all the contradictions and inconsistencies between the two go ahead. BTW, God will never be perfect in all human perspectives. Humans are not perfect, neither can they come to agreement on even what perfection is.

Bah, no one took my bait :(
They sold out for a fruit? What is there to talk about?
 
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