Questions About Adam and Eve

Why can't God?
Because I defined god as "that which is infinite, eternal, permanent and unchanging". If I change my definition, then the results of your inquiry will be different.

One has to begin somewhere with some definitions and those fundamental definitions will determine pretty much how all the rest of your thinking plays out. If I define god as a human-like being who consciously created a universe apart from himself, then all of my subsequent thinking will be very different.
 
Because I defined god as "that which is infinite, eternal, permanent and unchanging". If I change my definition, then the results of your inquiry will be different.
The integers are infinite, eternal, permanent, and unchanging and yet we can split them into natural numbers and negative integers.
 
Math has replaced God?
 
Because I defined god as "that which is infinite, eternal, permanent and unchanging". If I change my definition, then the results of your inquiry will be different.

One has to begin somewhere with some definitions and those fundamental definitions will determine pretty much how all the rest of your thinking plays out. If I define god as a human-like being who consciously created a universe apart from himself, then all of my subsequent thinking will be very different.

But how can you define god as something when you can't be sure that it is right or wrong?

Your entire worldview could be based on false premises. Just curious what you think about that.

I mean, religions do that, but then everyone in that religion follows pretty much what the central religious texts claim about god and reality. So your scenario is different because you're coming up with this stuff yourself.

I hope you don't mind me probing like this - but I'm just really curious how someone can construct their entire worldview around a concept that they don't know is right or wrong. It's pretty much a guess, right? See, I'm totally opposite - my worldview is based on things I am very certain about. If I wasn't - I would discard them as building blocks of my worldview.
 
Well, the "infinite, eternal, permanent and unchanging" exists, if you go meta enough. The risk is when other attributes are tacked in without evidence.
 
One has to begin somewhere with some definitions and those fundamental definitions will determine pretty much how all the rest of your thinking plays out.
Isn't the definition a little grand to start off with?

Especially when you're going to place pretty much all of the rest of your thinking on it?

And what's wrong with starting with: I don't know? I think that is a much better place to start.
 
See, I'm totally opposite - my worldview is based on things I am very certain about. If I wasn't - I would discard them as building blocks of my worldview.

You are not opposite in that respect. It seems to me that everyone's world view is based on things one is very certain about. The difference is what is that certainty based on. If it is based on tangible falsifiable objective proofs, then one calls it science. If it is based on just personal experiences, then it is personal. If it is based on what other people say, then it is relational.

The mind is changeable, however most people just reinforce it with those ideas and thoughts that make sense to them and discard those that do not.

Doubt is not really the enemy, but the choices after doubt reinforce the direction one is going to take. If one allows doubt to bring forth no results, then one does not progress in life, but is stuck in an undeveloped thought process. If one allows doubt to be the enemy, then it will be the enemy. That is coming from one who has struggled with doubt a lot, and not just taking what others say about it.

Isn't the definition a little grand to start off with?

Especially when you're going to place pretty much all of the rest of your thinking on it?

And what's wrong with starting with: I don't know? I think that is a much better place to start.

There is nothing wrong with starting out on: I don't know. How does one know if they have progressed beyond that stage?
 
I assume Birdjaguar has done that.
 
I assume Birdjaguar has done that.
Not according to the post.

If you start off with god is infinite, eternal, permanent and unchanging and pretty much let that determine how the rest of the thinking plays out, that is quite a different method altogether.

Which is why I asked whether that definition isn't a little grand to start off with? It leaves so little room to manoeuvre.

Pardon my French.
 
Are you not assuming that is his first attempt at a definition?

I am assuming that it is not. It may have been grand for an introduction in a thread, but then we have had threads that start out simple and stay that way.

Perhaps having a thread that starts out with what I knew before I knew anything may be fun. There may be some of us though that might not remember or have forgotten a lot of things, we used to know.

Or for reality purposes, such threads will probably just be troll threads and no real scientific results found.
 
How would you reconcile what you are "being told" and what you know? (besides claiming it is a little grand)

Infinite seems to be the first on the list, so it may be important. Eternal, permanent, and unchanging could all be synonymous with infinite, but not necessarily so. Something could be the first two and still change from time to time. Although something permanent, may rule out any changeability.

If God does not exist at what point would that existence, make itself known? If some people think that God exist does God exist and not exist at the same time?
 
How would you reconcile what you are "being told" and what you know?
I wouldn't have to on a discussion forum.

I take the post on face value in order to ask a question about that post. I don't consider possibilities this thread only exists in the mind of an alien entity and all other possibilities I can think of. Debate would become impossible.

Time consuming at least.
 
So does God exist or not? If God does not exist, how would you have a knowledgeable conversation to build upon that one point. I don't think that one is being told what to know. We are being given one's definition of God. This definition either fits into your knowledge base or not. We got to step one, and it is "I don't know". At a point in time, someone comes to the realization that they know God does exist. He is infinite. We build from there.

If we know that there is nothing infinite, then God would not even have that as a definition.
 
The integers are infinite, eternal, permanent, and unchanging and yet we can split them into natural numbers and negative integers.

No, math is only a human construct. Oh wait.
I would agree that math is a very clever and useful way we have invented to organize things. We can find ways to apply mathematics to everything around us and can use it to measure quite precisely, but that does not give it an existence outside of of our imagination.

But how can you define god as something when you can't be sure that it is right or wrong?

Your entire worldview could be based on false premises. Just curious what you think about that.

I mean, religions do that, but then everyone in that religion follows pretty much what the central religious texts claim about god and reality. So your scenario is different because you're coming up with this stuff yourself.

I hope you don't mind me probing like this - but I'm just really curious how someone can construct their entire worldview around a concept that they don't know is right or wrong. It's pretty much a guess, right? See, I'm totally opposite - my worldview is based on things I am very certain about. If I wasn't - I would discard them as building blocks of my worldview.
Your inquiry is not a problem. I wish I could claim my particular definition of god as an original thought, but alas, the Hindus, Sufis, Buddhists and Taoists have all been there before me, even if they worded things differently.

Every world view begins somewhere with some basic precepts that cannot be proven in the generally accepted scientific manner. You chose the building blocks of your worldview based on what is important to you and how you begin leads to some inevitable conclusion that makes my view, appear a bit off. You cannot escape it.

Truth be told, proving the correctness of my particular worldview is not important. Its purpose is to serve as guide and a foundation that allows a complex view of the world and how we all fit into that picture of things. Yes, even those who do not believe have a place in my world. ;)

If I were to wait for proof of what is true about the universe before figuring out how I might fit in, I would never get there. Is my world view a guess? Certainly not. It has roots in many years of actual experience coupled with some intellectual inquiry into what others have thought about things. Could I be completely wrong? Sure, but so what? If my purpose was to right, it is unlikely that I could ever come to a conclusion. I'd rather be "approximately right than precisely wrong". :)

Isn't the definition a little grand to start off with?

Especially when you're going to place pretty much all of the rest of your thinking on it?

And what's wrong with starting with: I don't know? I think that is a much better place to start.
Nothing is wrong with starting with "I don't know." I suggest you do so. If we can assume I have sufficient freedom to do so, I chose to start differently. Starting small just limits you. It constrains your thinking and usually limits the paths of inquiry you allow yourself. Each of us is different and having a narrow focus allows many to find their truth in the joys of precision and fine detail. There is grandeur in such endeavors too.

:lol: isn't that the point?
I did start big. Such a large expanse has lots of room for many ideas to find a home. It is inclusive rather than exclusive. I can find cozy places for fundamentalists, atheists, agnostics, haters and lovers. Even the tea party. :)
 
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