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Questions & Answers

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Rhye's and Fall of Civilization' started by Rhye, Jul 8, 2006.

  1. Cethegus

    Cethegus King

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    - Representation and Bureaucracy if you have more than 3 cities
    - Vassalage after the Middle Ages
    - Despotism and Slavery after researching Democracy
     
  2. dragodon64

    dragodon64 Noble

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  3. Mekajiki

    Mekajiki Warlord

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    Yeah, I've more or less memorized the list, which is why I'm not too worried.

    By the time I get to anything that has a negative effect with despotism, I've more than likely change my expansion to vassalage or occupation. The only real exception to that is Bureaucracy, which I rarely use anyway.
     
  4. Infantry#14

    Infantry#14 Emperor

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    I was playing India on Viceroy. I follow other people's strategies and go for judaism. However, when i research monothesism, some nation has found hinduism! I open the worldbuilder and found out an independent nation name Aficanos in the desert up northwest of India found it! I played another game and find hinduism first, but Egypt beat me to judaism! Is this a new feature in the update or coincidence?
     
  5. blizzrd

    blizzrd Micromanager

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    Coincidence, although others have recently posted that they found India on Viceroy is actually harder than on Monarch under 1.186!
     
  6. Cethegus

    Cethegus King

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    The strategy is to build an extra warrior sometime and declare war on the Independents while researching Monotheism. They'll change their research to a more military-related technology which will buy you enough time to get both Judaism and Hinduism. If you're having trouble getting to Priesthood first because of the Greeks, you can repeat the said strategy with them too.
     
  7. Infantry#14

    Infantry#14 Emperor

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    Is Persia harder to play in the new update, because immortals are now spearman, it takes twice the time to conquer cities. Anyone has any strategies?
     
  8. BurnEmDown

    BurnEmDown Emperor

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    I find Persia is now based even more on luck, you just have to hope that Babylon doesn't research BW on time and built axemen. As for the rest of the civs you need to take over, you can always use horse archers along with catapults and swordsmen.
     
  9. Mxzs

    Mxzs Prince

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    As long as we're asking for insights about strategies with the latest version, anyone have any insights about winning a Babylon Historical Victory on Monarch? I mean, other than praying for absurdly lucky hut bonuses, or an incompetent Asoka who is unable to grow Dilli properly?

    I could post a long analysis of the problem I'm having, but here's the short version: You have to get Monarchy by turn 84, because the Persians will spawn with it. Hereditary Rule is also the only way you can get your population past 6 on turn 84, which is what you need to do in order to guarantee a victory over India. But it seems to be impossible to get get Monarchy before turn 76 - 80, which is not enough time to get your population up to the necessary level.

    I have tried everything from chasing Stonehenge (for culture AND caste system, so I can get a scientist or two) and the Oracle, to bulldozing through via a Library. All the strategies seem to wash up with Monarchy at turn 78 or thereabouts.
     
  10. blizzrd

    blizzrd Micromanager

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    Try attacking India from the outset. Your warrior vs theirs. If you are lucky you might get some experience on the way through Persian lands from huts/barbs to pick up some city raider promotions. You don't need to detour to Hereditary Rule for extra happiness if you've destroyed Dili.
     
  11. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Deity

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    Great artist without knowledge of Aesthetics =Monarchy (Nero anyone? :)). You're on the right track with Stonehenge.
     
  12. Mxzs

    Mxzs Prince

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    Really? The GA gambit works on 1.186? You've done it? Because I've tried half a dozen times, and I've found that a GA chase is slower than an Oracle chase, and you've less certitude of getting a GA with Stonehenge than you do of getting Monarchy via the Oracle. If you've done it on Monarch on 1.186, you've got another trick than Stonehenge up your sleeve ...

    I can't explain the problem I'm having without going into mindnumbing numerical detail, but:

    1. You absolutely must pursue the line Pottery - Writing. You must work flood plains as each new population unit becomes available; if for even one turn you work, say, the Wooded Hills tile, you will lose Writing to China.

    2. This means you cannot start researching Mysticism until turn 31. The fastest chase of Mysticism will yield it up on turn 39. Here is where the production bottleneck appears.

    3. Egypt will build Stonehenge by turn 58 in almost every game; usually they build it on turn 56 or 57; I once had them get it on turn 55. This means that, to be assured of Stonehenge peacefully you must crash build it even at the cost of losing food, at a time when your population only 4. You can get it on turn 57 if you micromanage each turn. (Don't point to the Stone resource. You have to start working on Stonehenge immediately, and you can't research Masonry and build a quarry before you could build Stonehenge without using them. Anyway, building a Worker is just another way of messing up your population growth/management. See below.)

    4. You can try intimidating Egypt by declaring war and moving a huge stack of Warriors (the only thing your research will let you build, unless you've some secret move that gets you bowmen or spearman or battle tanks within the first dozen turns) toward them, blocking their quarry and forcing them to change production. If you do that you can build your population to the cusp of 6 while still getting Stonehenge.

    5. But in either case, whether you go peacefully or not, you have another production bottleneck on the other side of Stonehenge, because you've got to run 2 artists for at least ten turns if you're going to pop a GP by the deadline. Note well: by the deadline. If you've timed it perfectly, you might pop the GP by turn 77. But even if you (barely) have a population of 5, it will take you 10 turns to build up to 6. Seventy-seven plus ten equals eighty-seven, three turns past the "largest population" check. By that time Dilli (unless Asoka has been incompetent) will be comfortably at 6, probably at 7, and maybe even at 8.

    6. Kill Asoka? Beijing is almost as likely as Dilli to outstrip Babylon in population, and you can't get warriors up to Beijing in time, and, anyway, Beijing is always protected by archers.


    Basically, no matter what I try, I can't research Monarchy and prep Babylon's population to rocket past the population 6 barrier. Doing one excludes the other.

    If I look at it from the end game, it appears to me that I need to have Monarchy in hand by turn 73 (and probably by turn 60, given that Asoka can easily reach population 7 by turn 84); I also need to have Babylon at least at population 5 at the same time. Only if I meet both of these conditions can I be assured of a Monarch-level victory that does not rely on the luck of Asoka or Qin's incompetence as a population manager.

    So here's the question: How do you get Monarchy and get your population up to 5 by turn 60 without losing Writing to China?
     
  13. deanej

    deanej Deity

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    Umm... play viceroy? Though even then you'll have to micromanage to get writing in time.

    The guide mentioned using caste system to get the culture/artists. Could that work? I won Babylon that way on 1.184 viceroy.
     
  14. Mxzs

    Mxzs Prince

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    Heh. Yeah, that's one way. "How do I win a Babylon UHV on Monarch? Play Viceroy!" :)

    I've won on Viceroy. Actually, I won on Monarch under 1.186. But when I went back to try to replicate it and take notes, I realized it was because Asoka and Qin hadn't grown their population properly. Luck, in other words, was with me. Twenty subsequent attempts haven't worked.

    Caste System, like Oracle, results in a bottleneck, where you can't grow population AND generate the Wonders and GPs you need to get past 6. Or, at least, I haven't been able to find a way past.
     
  15. blizzrd

    blizzrd Micromanager

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    You don't necessarily have to eliminate India, just harass them enough should be fine. If you are lucky enough to get woodsman II bonus you can usually capture some Indian workers which often screws their growth. Pillage improvements (and roads), mess with their workers and you'll get ahead of Dilli's in population.

    Same goes for China. Pillage and harass/capture workers as much as you can. Eventually they will send some serious military unit to get rid of your pesky threat, but this delay/change of tactic is often enough to get you ahead of Beijing in population also.
     
  16. The Turk

    The Turk Deity

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    @Rhye

    For your next version of RFC, is it possible if you could make some of the civs UHV a bit more stragetical and less based on luck, especially for the Indian and Babylonian civs who I find extremly diffucult to beat on Monarch level.
     
  17. timfi

    timfi Chieftain

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    Hey, guys.
    Let me thank you for this great mod.

    There is something strange with the latest version 1.186, though - I tried playing Jap after downloading and found out that no one was going to engage in a fair tech exchange with me - not my military allies, nor my Khmer vassal. They rejected the 2 times expensive tecnologies from me and offered something like 1 to 5 deals:eek:(on a viceroy level!)
    Is that what is intended to be (maybe they were afraid of my No1 score) or some kind of bug?
     
  18. Mxzs

    Mxzs Prince

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    Huh, that does seem to work, though it does seem to require quite large forces. Thanks! I managed to surround Beijing with 4 Warriors, which made it possible to pillage all their food improvements and then pin them down inside the city walls. Beijing's population actually dropped from 4 to 1, due I'm sure to whipping up defenders.

    Dilli? ... I still think it's a good idea to send out enough Warriors to sack the place. It can rebound in population very fast, and it's much harder to get to and sit on food improvements. Though I also put 4 warriors around it, and Asoka only had Warriors, he was still aggressive enough that he was able to kill my marauders. And those religions add a lot of culture points. On turn 94 Dilli had 133% of Babylon's culture points, though I had the Oracle and Dilli had no wonders.

    ...

    @timfi: I've noticed the same aggressive tech trading practices. As near as I can tell, you have to offer the AI techs worth at least 150% of the techs you're requesting before they'll entertain an offer. Absurd offers, like when they'll offer you Archery in exchange for Mathematics, result when none of the other techs they have on hand are sufficiently cheap relative to what you're offering.

    I assume this is intentional, to handicap the human player somewhat, but more often in my experience it has the effect of eliminating most tech trading.

    EDIT: It still depends to an ungodly degree on luck. For instance, if you use the Stonehenge-CS gambit to pop a GA, you have to gamble on not popping a GProphet instead. (And you have to gamble that Egypt will target the Pyramids instead of Stonehenge.) If you decided to use the Oracle to get Monarchy, you have to gamble that Priesthood won't suddenly become 125 lightbulbs more expensive than it had been. To be relatively assured of reaching techs and buildings in time, you have to skimp on the Warrior stack you send out, which greatly increases the chances that war against either India or China (or both) will go very badly.
     
  19. guspasho

    guspasho Prince

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    What kind of units are the Impi, archery or melee? They aren't listed in the Civilopedia.
     
  20. dragodon64

    dragodon64 Noble

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    Melee, they replace Spearmen.
     

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