Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

[toller pretzl]

Thanks for all the answers everyone.

I have another one: when you are in anarchy, do the turns that a captured city is in resistance still decrease, or does that counter also stop ?

Do GPP-points stop ?

 

[Shoshinsha]

Hello Civ Community:
I am new to Civ 3. I have seen a lot of forums discussing Storm Over Europe and Storm Over Pacific, but where can I download them? I have clicked on links to the cdcgroup website/ evo-games but I am never able to proceed to an actual download. Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks in advance...

 

[Lord Parkin]

Those two sites have unfortunately gone down since the links were posted. I'm not exactly sure where the "Storm" mods are being hosted currently, but I'll look that up for you. The actual forum members (or some of them, anyway) have moved to www.strategamer.com.

 

[a4phantom]

If you Warlord a GG during the early gunpowder age primarily to build West Point, what's the best unit to attach him to? Am I right that a non-Charismatic unit require 26xp to reach level 6? Can you build WP if you once had a lvl6 unit but it died? What if it dies during construction?

 

[toller pretzl]

Now I can give my own answers

I have another one: when you are in anarchy, do the turns that a captured city is in resistance still decrease, or does that counter also stop ?

It does not stop

Do GPP-points stop ?

They do stop

 

[Lord Parkin]

If you Warlord a GG during the early gunpowder age primarily to build West Point, what's the best unit to attach him to? Am I right that a non-Charismatic unit require 26xp to reach level 6? Can you build WP if you once had a lvl6 unit but it died? What if it dies during construction?

I think that the level 6 unit must exist during the time of building for West Point to be available. I'm not sure what happens if the unit dies during the building though; I've never experienced that myself. (Actually, I've never got a game up to the point where I've built West Point yet. They always end before then, unless I'm going down a diplomatic/cultural path, in which case I probably won't have the necessary unit experience anyway.)

 

[ggganz]

First:
@sebastien- in game, go to advanced, options drop-down menu says "English", change to "French"

Second:
some of these questions should be in the site feedback section.

 

[frankcor]

If you Warlord a GG during the early gunpowder age primarily to build West Point, what's the best unit to attach him to? Am I right that a non-Charismatic unit require 26xp to reach level 6? Can you build WP if you once had a lvl6 unit but it died? What if it dies during construction?

All you need is for the unit to survive long enough to be promoted to Level 6 -- if it dies with the needed points but before you've had a chance to select the promotion, it doesn't count. If the unit has EVER existed, you can build West Point. It doesn't need to be around at the time of the build.

 

[Zophos]

All you need is for the unit to survive long enough to be promoted to Level 6 -- if it dies with the needed points but before you've had a chance to select the promotion, it doesn't count. If the unit has EVER existed, you can build West Point. It doesn't need to be around at the time of the build.

The same applies to the Heroic Epic - if you've EVER had a unit of Level 5 (in Warlords, level 4 in vanilla), you can build the HE, even if the unit has died.

 

[neily_mcl]

Hi, I have a problem with my civ4 game every time I reach the renaissance era my game shuts down and I can only start a custom game before the renaissance era.

 

[Codex]

I'm trying to get the hang of Warlords, while also trying to grasp strategies developed for vanilla. If these have been answered elsewhere in this thread, or on the boards, any redirects would be welcome.

1. Is queue-switching for forest chops defunct in Warlords? Or, does it now mean that a full turn of has to be devoted to the settler/worker before switching back to the non-settler/worker build?

2. Has anyone compared, in a systematic way, the relative value of forest chops (in Warlords) when compared with other tile improvements?

3. Any suggestions for how to get the most out of missionaries?

All suggestions welcome...

 

[Roland Johansen]

I'm trying to get the hang of Warlords, while also trying to grasp strategies developed for vanilla. If these have been answered elsewhere in this thread, or on the boards, any redirects would be welcome.

1. Is queue-switching for forest chops defunct in Warlords? Or, does it now mean that a full turn of has to be devoted to the settler/worker before switching back to the non-settler/worker build?

First of all: Welcome to CFC!


The production of the forest is added to the production of the turn in which the forest was cut down. So you need to apply that turn of production to the type of build that you like. I don't think it matters a lot as you can still switch pretty fast between builds.

2. Has anyone compared, in a systematic way, the relative value of forest chops (in Warlords) when compared with other tile improvements?

There have been lots of claims of ultimate strategies and that x is far better than y. Just use your own mind and don't blindly follow the strategies presented by others. If I write something on this forum, it will typically be about game mechanics and how different strategies could be compared. But I will seldomly say something like x is better than y. There are too many uncertainties in this game to make an absolute statement like that.

A forest chop gives a certain amount of production (20 before, 30 after mathematics), modified for production bonuses in the city.
The best comparable tile improvement would be a mine which give +2 production per turn, also modified for production bonuses in the city. Even these two are very hard to compare. Sometimes you would want production now, sometimes it can wait a moment. But how would you like to compare a forest chop with a cottage? The commerce of the cottage could be used in many completely different ways, all of them virtually impossible to compare with the production of a forest chop.

What I can say, is that it is good to have so many workers that every tile that is being used by your cities, is an improved tile. That you would like to specialize some cities but at the same moment would like some production in even your most commerce oriented city so that you can build those libraries.
It's the balance between all of the different things that are needed by your civilization that you must choose. And that balance will not always be the same. There is no perfect strategy.

3. Any suggestions for how to get the most out of missionaries?

Uhm, don't wait to use them as you can only have 3 at a time and they cost gold to maintain... No, I'm just joking. But it is hard to see what you want with this question. Missionaries can only do one thing, convert a city, so what do you want? Maybe, some options why you would like to convert a city?

Use them if you want neighbours with the same religion that are peaceful towrds you. Use them if you have a holy city with shrine and want more gold income. Use them to get a permanent line of sight in your neighbours cities (only if you have the holy city). Use them on your own cities to get the benefits of the religious civics (like organized religion's + 25% production on buildings) in all of your cities. Use them to get +1 culture in your new cities so their borders will expand. Use them to get + 1 happiness in your cities that need happiness.

The problem is not how or why to use missionaries. The problem is: do you build a missionary to get the above effects or do you build a library for extra research, a settler to expand, a worker to improve your lands. That is the choise and the answer will be different every time. As long as you make the choise consciously while weighing all options, you will rule your civilization in a smart way.


If you would ask somewhat more specific questions, I'm happy to give examples as to how to compare different strategies.
You can also take a look at the War Academy for all kinds of strategy articles. But even the best article is not a perfect strategy.

 

[frankcor]

Roland Johansen, I continue to marvel at your deep level of understanding of the game mechanics and at the thoughtfulness with which you write your responses.

I often pick up play tips from your posts.

 

[Codex]

@ Roland Johansen-

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I'm still trying to grasp the game mechanics, but it's certainly helpful to think about them in relation to broader tactics & strategies.

I appreciate the confirmation about when chopped hammers appear, since I'd been trying out some of the more extreme production switching (which some people thought was an expolit). and I wasn't getting the results that I expected!

And I take all of your points about production comparison and situational needs. I get hung up about specific decisions sometimes when I should be thinking at a different level (city as distinct from tile; civ as distinct from city) -- all of your advice should help, if I can follow it!

I'm still having trouble using missionaries, and I think you get to the heart of the matter: are they worth building, and if so, when? When you list all of their different effects, their value becomes much more apparent. The trade-off, of course, is that missionaries have their greatest impact when they are (relatively) most expensive, and when other civilization needs are most pressing. I'll try spamming them in a game, and see what happens!

@ everybody-
It does seem to me, however, that there are some complexities about missionaries that I haven't yet grasped.

1. How likely are missionaries to fail when converting a city? Does this probability differ for foreign civs? What factors influence this probability? (distance from holy city? shrine built in holy city? different state religion present in target city? other factors?)

2. Is it possible to determine when it would become possible/likely to ask or bribe another civ to convert religions?

3. Are there specific actions that one can take to encourage the spread of a religion in a foreign civ? Does it matter, for instance, if the first conversion in a foreign civ is in the capital? is in a city connected by trade routes?

4. Should I take this topic off this thread, and start another about religion mechanics? (a CFC netiquette question)?

- Codex

 

[Raisin Bran]

@ everybody-
It does seem to me, however, that there are some complexities about missionaries that I haven't yet grasped.

1. How likely are missionaries to fail when converting a city? Does this probability differ for foreign civs? What factors influence this probability? (distance from holy city? shrine built in holy city? different state religion present in target city? other factors?)

2. Is it possible to determine when it would become possible/likely to ask or bribe another civ to convert religions?

3. Are there specific actions that one can take to encourage the spread of a religion in a foreign civ? Does it matter, for instance, if the first conversion in a foreign civ is in the capital? is in a city connected by trade routes?

4. Should I take this topic off this thread, and start another about religion mechanics? (a CFC netiquette question)?

- Codex

1 - I have no Idea. In one of my games I had to sent 4 missionary to new york to get it to convert. It was a city far away from mine and squezed between to other civs with different religions than mine. Don't know how much this affects the coverting process though.

2 - The logical answer is when at enough of their people are into that given religion, and your relations with the given civ are at pleased.

3 - I always go and convert the capital first because spreading of religion is often encouraged by trade routes, since the capital is the first civ's city it usually has more trade routes or roads attached to other cities (either their own cities or neighbours cities)

4 - If you feel like you can develop enough discussion on the subject. But here is a great place for single questions without having a big discussion on the subject. IMHO I think a thread on that subject would die fast because its no a opinion subject more a game mechanics subject.

OK im no Roland but I hope my answeres give you a litte insight.

 

[frankcor]

1. How likely are missionaries to fail when converting a city? Does this probability differ for foreign civs? What factors influence this probability? (distance from holy city? shrine built in holy city? different state religion present in target city? other factors?)

The odds for failure increase with the size of the target city and with the number of other religions already present in the city. But keep sending missionaries -- eventually one will succeed.

 

[Zophos]

1. How likely are missionaries to fail when converting a city? Does this probability differ for foreign civs? What factors influence this probability? (distance from holy city? shrine built in holy city? different state religion present in target city? other factors?)

When in doubt, consult the code.

From the Warlords SDK:

bool CvUnit::spread(ReligionTypes eReligion)
{
	CvCity* pCity;
	CvWString szBuffer;
	int iSpreadProb;

	if (!canSpread(plot(), eReligion))
	{
		return false;
	}

	pCity = plot()->getPlotCity();

	if (pCity != NULL)
	{
		iSpreadProb = ((pCity->getTeam() == getTeam()) ? 40 : 20); // XXX mod

		iSpreadProb += (((GC.getNumReligionInfos() - pCity->getReligionCount()) * (100 - iSpreadProb)) / GC.getNumReligionInfos());

		if (GC.getGameINLINE().getSorenRandNum(100, "Unit Spread Religion") < iSpreadProb)
		{
			pCity->setHasReligion(eReligion, true, true, false);
		}
		else
		{
			szBuffer = gDLL->getText("TXT_KEY_MISC_RELIGION_FAILED_TO_SPREAD", getNameKey(), GC.getReligionInfo(eReligion).getChar(), pCity->getNameKey());
			gDLL->getInterfaceIFace()->addMessage(getOwnerINLINE(), true, GC.getDefineINT("EVENT_MESSAGE_TIME"), szBuffer, "AS2D_NOSPREAD", MESSAGE_TYPE_INFO, GC.getUnitInfo(getUnitType()).getButton(), (ColorTypes)GC.getInfoTypeForString("COLOR_RED"), pCity->getX_INLINE(), pCity->getY_INLINE());
		}
	}

	if (plot()->isActiveVisible(false))
	{
		NotifyEntity(MISSION_SPREAD);
	}

	kill(true);

	return true;
}

For non-coders, the important lines are the following:

iSpreadProb = ((pCity->getTeam() == getTeam()) ? 40 : 20); // XXX mod
iSpreadProb += (((GC.getNumReligionInfos() - pCity->getReligionCount()) * (100 - iSpreadProb)) / GC.getNumReligionInfos());

In the unmodded game (with 7 religions), this reduces to:

SpreadProb(non-team) = 100% - (80% * numReligionsInCity/7)
SpreadProb(team) = 100% - (60% * numReligionsInCity/7)

Or, in chart form (with proper rounding):

# Religions	Non-Team	     Team
0	          100%	             100%
1	           89%	              92%
2	           78%	              83%
3	           66%	              75%
4	           55%	              66%
5	           43%	              58%
6	           32%	              49%

That's it. The only thing that matters is how many religions are present in the city already. Population, distance to holy city/shrine, capitol vs non-capitol, etc. don't enter into the calculation.

 

[Samson]

SpreadProb(non-team) = 100% - (80% * numReligionsInCity/7)
SpreadProb(team) = 100% - (60% * numReligionsInCity/7)

Or, in chart form (with proper rounding):

# Religions	Non-Team	     Team
0	          100%	             100%
1	           89%	              92%
2	           78%	              83%
3	           66%	              75%
4	           55%	              66%
5	           43%	              58%
6	           32%	              49%

That's it. The only thing that matters is how many religions are present in the city already. Population, distance to holy city/shrine, capitol vs non-capitol, etc. don't enter into the calculation.

Good job

So the only question remaining is what consitutes "team". I guess your own missonaries do count as "Team", and other than that only members of a perminant alliance?

 

[Codex]

In the unmodded game (with 7 religions), this reduces to:

SpreadProb(non-team) = 100% - (80% * numReligionsInCity/7)
SpreadProb(team) = 100% - (60% * numReligionsInCity/7)

Or, in chart form (with proper rounding):

# Religions	Non-Team	     Team
0	          100%	             100%
1	           89%	              92%
2	           78%	              83%
3	           66%	              75%
4	           55%	              66%
5	           43%	              58%
6	           32%	              49%

That's it. The only thing that matters is how many religions are present in the city already. Population, distance to holy city/shrine, capitol vs non-capitol, etc. don't enter into the calculation.

Well, well ... this is very useful -- thanks! I'm rather surprised that so few factors are included in this calculation, but there it is. (Clearly, I'm going to have to get better at checking the code. Much faster than impressionistic and casual experimentation, which has been my own brand of scientific method to date. )

 

[pixiejmcc]

Darn, doubleposted again. Oh well might as well make the best of it: If you start out with fishing and a seafood resource, is it better to build a worker or a work boat first? I always build the workboat figuring that since the city will grow while it's built I can more easily build a worker after. Could someone who crunches the numbers (yes Roland I have you in mind) or has more experience tell me if this is the smart way to do it? It occurs to me that 1. because it doesn't take food the workboat probably takes longer than the worker to build and 2. it only improves one square rather than one every few turns. Does the smartest build order change if you happen to also have corn or cows or another food source on land? I play on Prince if that matters, Warlords, unmodded.

OK. I must reiterate that I play only teamers at noble level and quick speed.

With a fishing and mining start (not sure who has this right now), it may be better to go workboat 1st. Go BW 1st, u will get this after 7/8 turns and will be able to immediately slave the boat. Then after 2/3 turns (clam/fish) u will grow back to size 2. Then start the worker, i would say he is ready to slave after another 2/3 turns. Therefore after around 12 turns u have a worked sea res (effectively a worked tile) and a worker. If u went worker 1st on a plains hill and had a corn to farm, after 12 turns u would have a worker and a worked farm and may be something else. I guess worker 1st is better.