Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

[UnforcedError]

The bigger question is "Why reply to a seven-year-old post?"

I guess he's actually trying to read through the whole thread

 

[Sisiutil]

I guess he's actually trying to read through the whole thread

Wow. I don't know whether to be impressed or scared.

 

[Manco Capac]

I walked right into an ungarrisoned Timbuktu (Pop.1) in 3880BC and created a ruin on a floodplain; settled adjacent and couldn't figure out why I was getting only 1 commerce from it.

The big question is why did you not wait a couple of turns until the city gets size 2. I find it silly to provoke autorazing for the sake of autorazing while trying to snatch the city when it got size 2 would have been huge profit.

Tyrant may have a different phrasing, but he got the explanation.
In the game, there are three type of landscape things: base land (grass, water, etc.), features and bonuses. And those three can be additive. Flood plains constitute of features and features are always destroyed by a city that has settled on top of it. When razing, you just realize the game doesn't replace the feature. When it is forests, it seemed logical, but flood plains appeared a different kind, hence the question marks. But from the game viewpoint and definitions, it disappears without return.

Now, if you wanted to see it returned once a city is razed, Karadoc implemented in his K-mod such thing that reestablishes flood plain once the city is razed.

 

[Olson]

If the city's using a FP to build its first defender you're normally safe to wait with the declaration until it's 1T away from growing. Why not get another city instantly?

Does anyone really care? I eliminated a civ with a warrior on the 3rd turn of a game. Stop nitpicking!

 

[Olson]

The bigger question is "Why reply to a seven-year-old post?"

Well, Lennier, I *wasn't* responding, duh. It's called "Forum Search" and I brought up an issue that maybe someone would find helpful. Do you really think I was IMing to someone about something 7 yrs. old? Jeez.

 

[Olson]

The big question is why did you not wait a couple of turns until the city gets size 2. I find it silly to provoke autorazing for the sake of autorazing while trying to snatch the city when it got size 2 would have been huge profit.

The really, really big question is why are you so critical about HOW I ELIMINATED A CIV WITH A WARRIOR ON THE THIRD TURN!

 

[UnforcedError]

Does anyone really care? I eliminated a civ with a warrior on the 3rd turn of a game. Stop nitpicking!

You could have eliminated a civ with a warrior and gained a formidable second city next to your cap on T8 of the game

 

[Olson]

You could have eliminated a civ with a warrior and gained a formidable second city next to your cap on T8 of the game

Or the exploring Malinese warrior, which had to have been just a tile or two away from the capital, could have returned to the capital and I lose a 50/50 battle. Or the Mali were using the nearby plains hill to produce a warrior and and exploring warrior return so that my only warrior would have no chance.

Either way, you're being ridiculously petty and critical of me. There isn't a civ player in the world, other than you, that wouldn't have done what I did. But that's not the point.

I was simply trying to be helpful, which isn't particularly easy given that I don't know a whole lot, by pointing out that cities razed on a floodplain eliminate the 3F bonus.

I really value and appreciate the help I've gotten on CFC. I don't have a lot of ways I can contribute or give back to the CFC community so why discourage me when I try?

Jeez, what a way to start the day.

 

[UnforcedError]

Or the exploring Malinese warrior, which had to have been just a tile or two away from the capital, could have returned to the capital and I lose a 50/50 battle.

The initial warrior is set in 'scouting' mode by the game so it is not likely to reach the city in time if you declare 1T before the city grows. In fact, it might be closer to your cap, so having a look around before declaring doesn't hurt. Warriors get a bonus on city defense so if he could get back there in time, rather wait with the war until he moves further away.

Or the Mali were using the nearby plains hill to produce a warrior and and exploring warrior return so that my only warrior would have no chance.

Which is why declaring on T7 by approaching the city diagonally is the best option. AI cities will always use the highest food tile to build the initial defender btw.

Either way, you're being ridiculously petty and critical of me. There isn't a civ player in the world, other than you, that wouldn't have done what I did. But that's not the point.

Well, yes. You might meet plenty of civ players around here who wouldn't do what you have done And I wasn't intending to be critical. Sorry if this is how it came over. I was actually trying to help.

 

[Manco Capac]

The really, really big question is why are you so critical about HOW I ELIMINATED A CIV WITH A WARRIOR ON THE THIRD TURN!

From what I see is you invaded a city without defenses yet. Yes, I understand you wished to get all the lands for yourself, but waiting 20 turns later with more warriors on hands will have led to a second city way faster than building one yourself.
And yes, it is true that the AI favors highest food first. I know it per hundred of past experiences. I have myself done lots of warrior rushes in the past.

 

[Olson]

The initial warrior is set in 'scouting' mode by the game so it is not likely to reach the city in time if you declare 1T before the city grows. In fact, it might be closer to your cap, so having a look around before declaring doesn't hurt. Warriors get a bonus on city defense so if he could get back there in time, rather wait with the war until he moves further away.

Which is why declaring on T7 by approaching the city diagonally is the best option. AI cities will always use the highest food tile to build the initial defender btw.

Well, yes. You might meet plenty of civ players around here who wouldn't do what you have done And I wasn't intending to be critical. Sorry if this is how it came over. I was actually trying to help.

I appreciate and accept your apology. With Lennier assuming I was *responding* to a 7 yr. old conversation, rather than bumping-up a piece of info. for other new players to be aware of, and Tachywaxon accusing me of auto-razing "for the sake auto-razing" the focus became how the ruins were made rather than the impact ruins had on the food bonus of a floodplain.

Yes, I was thrilled to eliminate a civ so easily and early. Yes, I knew the 1 pop. city would be destroyed. That was my choice, in my game, and I would do it exactly the same again because you, Lennier, and Tachywaxon don't know the map, the precariousness of my starting position, or that I made the right choice for me. Could it have been done differently? Apparently. But should I have been made to look foolish? No.

I don't feel my CFC 'join date' or '# of posts' or anything else should serve as an incentive for anyone to be unnecessarily critical, condenscending, or rude by talking *about* me rather than *to* me. As a Mod on another forum I wouldn't tolerate it and, here on CFC, I don't deserve it.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I don´t know whether I still count as a 'Newbie', but I would like to know what exactly the GNP in the demographic screen stands for. Is it only Gold, only Commerce or Commerce + Gold/Research/Culture from Specialists and Buildings? With or without multipliers? Before or after expenses?
Everything I´ve read about it so far has just increased my confusion, not to mention that some people trying to explain it wrongly used commerce and gold interchangeably.

 

[Manco Capac]

I don't feel my CFC 'join date' or '# of posts' or anything else should serve as an incentive for anyone to be unnecessarily critical, condenscending, or rude by talking *about* me rather than *to* me. As a Mod on another forum I wouldn't tolerate it and, here on CFC, I don't deserve it.

Ok, I just reported my original post.

 

[Manco Capac]

I don´t know whether I still count as a 'Newbie', but I would like to know what exactly the GNP in the demographic screen stands for. Is it only Gold, only Commerce or Commerce + Gold/Research/Culture from Specialists and Buildings? With or without multipliers? Before or after expenses?
Everything I´ve read about it so far has just increased my confusion, not to mention that some people trying to explain it wrongly used commerce and gold interchangeably.

Originally, that standed for BPT+gold-expenses. That is for Warlords and Vanilla.
On BTS, for whatever reason, they added culture and espionage to it, thus basically all kinds of commerce types into GNP.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

On BTS, for whatever reason, they added culture and espionage to it, thus basically all kinds of commerce types into GNP.

Even if they didn´t come from commerce initially but directly from buildings and specialists?

 

[Lennier]

Well, Lennier, I *wasn't* responding, duh. It's called "Forum Search" and I brought up an issue that maybe someone would find helpful. Do you really think I was IMing to someone about something 7 yrs. old? Jeez.

Since it was posted in the public forum, you obviously weren't IMing Tyrant, just replying to his post. As in saying "hey, that happened to me too!"

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: Please discontinue this conversation. If you have a problem, please report the post. Responding in the way many of you have is trolling. We will take it from here and go through the posts.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Manco Capac]

Even if they didn´t come from commerce initially but directly from buildings and specialists?

All sources of commerce types. Courthouses give espionage points; it is counted towards the GNP. Espionage points from the slider; counted towards the GNP too.

 

[Apache78]

Hey all!

I am new to Civilization 4, but I've played Civilization 5 extensively (maybe too extensively ... seriously, I've played that game a LOT). Anyway, I basically just wanted a bit of a new experience, so I decided to switch to Civilization 4 for a while. It's surprising how much of a learning curve there is, because the game is pretty fundamentally different. These first couple of games my civilization is just a mess!

Anyway, I am just figuring things out as I go. There's one thing that is really confusing me, though, just because from googling the issue I can't find this issue having been brought up before (and from what I understand I don't even really get how it's possible ...)

So I am playing as Arabia. I don't know exactly what turn # I'm on (I forgot to check when I turned the game off just now), but it is pretty early in the game (I quickly checked the map on Worldbuilder, and I am the only civilization with multiple cities at this point, all the AIs still only have one ... I have three. Maybe not wise? I'm used to Civ 5 where setting up a bunch of cities quickly was the best strategy).

(On a side note, brownie points to the person who understands the references of my city names

So I have a city called Shambala, which is the holy city for Judaism (my state religion), which is about 5-6 hexes west of my first founded city, Iram of the Pillars. About 8-10 hexes southeast of Iram is the nearest AI, which is Mansa Musa (a Hindu state). This past turn, I got a message saying that Hinduism is spreading in Iram.

Now, its early in the game, so there are no missionaries yet and no trade routes between me and Mansa Musa. So how is Hinduism spreading? From what I've read online, a religion can only spread by missionaries or automatically via trade routes. Why is Judaism not spreading, considering its holy city is closer to Iram than the Hindu holy city?

I don't particularly care, because I think it will actually be an interesting dynamic to watch develop along with my civilization, I am just confused because according to the various online tutorials this shouldn't be possible this early in the game with the mechanics. Also, any idea what sort of effect this could have long-term?

 

[Sisiutil]

Hey all!

I am new to Civilization 4, but I've played Civilization 5 extensively (maybe too extensively ... seriously, I've played that game a LOT). Anyway, I basically just wanted a bit of a new experience, so I decided to switch to Civilization 4 for a while. It's surprising how much of a learning curve there is, because the game is pretty fundamentally different. These first couple of games my civilization is just a mess!

Anyway, I am just figuring things out as I go. There's one thing that is really confusing me, though, just because from googling the issue I can't find this issue having been brought up before (and from what I understand I don't even really get how it's possible ...)

So I am playing as Arabia. I don't know exactly what turn # I'm on (I forgot to check when I turned the game off just now), but it is pretty early in the game (I quickly checked the map on Worldbuilder, and I am the only civilization with multiple cities at this point, all the AIs still only have one ... I have three. Maybe not wise? I'm used to Civ 5 where setting up a bunch of cities quickly was the best strategy).

(On a side note, brownie points to the person who understands the references of my city names

So I have a city called Shambala, which is the holy city for Judaism (my state religion), which is about 5-6 hexes west of my first founded city, Iram of the Pillars. About 8-10 hexes southeast of Iram is the nearest AI, which is Mansa Musa (a Hindu state). This past turn, I got a message saying that Hinduism is spreading in Iram.

Now, its early in the game, so there are no missionaries yet and no trade routes between me and Mansa Musa. So how is Hinduism spreading? From what I've read online, a religion can only spread by missionaries or automatically via trade routes. Why is Judaism not spreading, considering its holy city is closer to Iram than the Hindu holy city?

I don't particularly care, because I think it will actually be an interesting dynamic to watch develop along with my civilization, I am just confused because according to the various online tutorials this shouldn't be possible this early in the game with the mechanics. Also, any idea what sort of effect this could have long-term?

Are you sure you don't have foreign trade routes? Check the city screen, they're listed at upper left. If you have an Open Borders agreement with Mansa, and any sort of a connection to his borders (a road or, if you have the Sailing tech, a river or coastline, or a combination thereof), you've got a trade route.

Trade routes are automatically created within the game, and the game mechanic for them is biased toward more lucrative ones (this is a good thing). Foreign trade routes bring in more money than domestic ones, so if conditions are right you'll have trade routes with Malinese cities rather than with your own.

As for long-term effects, they are mainly diplomatic. Mansa may come calling soon and ask you to convert to Hinduism. You stand to gain positive diplomatic modifiers with him if you share his religion (and if you convert if and when he asks you to do so), negative ones if you're a godless heretic (and if you refuse to join the one, true faith when salvation is so generously offered to you). You could, alternatively, send missionaries to Mali and try to convert Mansa to Judaism, but this may be an uphill battle and you might be better off building military units instead--Mansa's Skirmishers may be sharpening their spears in order to convert your population to Hindusim the hard way, if you catch my drift.