Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

[WeirdoJoker]

Another way to slow them down: if you have a technology with a government (e.g. Monarchy, Feudalism, Democracy, Communism, Fascism) that they don't know yet, gift it to them... They'll revolt immediately and lose a few turns in anarchy...
However, the Iroquois are religious, so they would have lost only 2 turns that way...

Turns out I won that last game with my second-highest score.

Now I'm playing Ottomans on a standard map going for a Space Race. Trouble I'm having is I have Steam Power with no coal and Replaceable Parts with no rubber, and the other civs are not advanced enough to know about it yet (except England has Steam Power, but no coal connected ... one outcropping nowhere near its towns). France with two coal but not Steam, so I traded Steam to them for some stuff, and then traded back for the coal. Now I'm just trying to figure out rubber, which no one has two of (and I'm the only once with Replaceable Parts anyway). Nearest geographically is Egypt, but they're pretty far behind and the rubber is way out of the way. Considering starting a war, but would rather not if I can avoid it.

 

[Takhisis]

Another way to slow them down: if you have a technology with a government (e.g. Monarchy, Feudalism, Democracy, Communism, Fascism) that they don't know yet, gift it to them... They'll revolt immediately and lose a few turns in anarchy...

This is what happens when your traits are ‘Evil, Notorious’ rather than, say ‘Agricultural, Seafaring’.

 

[CKS]

Turns out I won that last game with my second-highest score.

Nearest geographically is Egypt, but they're pretty far behind and the rubber is way out of the way. Considering starting a war, but would rather not if I can avoid it.

Congratulations on your win.

"Pretty far behind" sounds like a good situation for a war. (First I'd double-check that there aren't any unowned sources or AI with two, since I often miss one.) Since Egypt is lagging, they won't be helpful getting you to space, and you'll do a better job using their land than they will. If they are behind, they won't be dragging anyone else into the war, and you should make quick work of them with Sipahi.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

Congratulations on your win.

Thanks. 5 of my 8 Warlord victories have been Spaceships, 2 Cultural and 1 Domination, so I was happy to get the second Cultural win.

"Pretty far behind" sounds like a good situation for a war. (First I'd double-check that there aren't any unowned sources or AI with two, since I often miss one.)

I traded for territory maps with everyone, and the map is full (no unowned spaces left), so I'm pretty sure I haven't missed any - unless an AI city is sitting on a rubber square, but there's no way to tell that.

Since Egypt is lagging, they won't be helpful getting you to space, and you'll do a better job using their land than they will. If they are behind, they won't be dragging anyone else into the war, and you should make quick work of them with Sipahi.

Oops ... forgot about Sipahi. I skipped Military Tradition and only recently got saltpeter, anyway, so I guess that should be my next thing after Electronics (so I can build Hoover's).

 

[Takhisis]

You might find going for tanks rather than cavalry more useful at this point.

 

[CKS]

I traded for territory maps with everyone, and the map is full (no unowned spaces left), so I'm pretty sure I haven't missed any - unless an AI city is sitting on a rubber square, but there's no way to tell that.

Look with a clean map - Ctrl-Shift-M - and you can see what is under the AI cities. (Ctrl-Shift-N lets you select what shows up on the clean map.)

Tanks would be nicer than Sipahi, but tanks require rubber, so they won't be helpful in capturing the rubber. Can you trade for military tradition? Usually the AI are pretty good about learning it for you. If some are industrial already, I'd expect it to show up pretty soon, if it hasn't already.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

Look with a clean map - Ctrl-Shift-M - and you can see what is under the AI cities. (Ctrl-Shift-N lets you select what shows up on the clean map.)

Wow ... I did not know that and will try it next time I start the game.

Can you trade for military tradition?

I checked ... no one has it, so I decided to just back up and research it ... was only 4 turns and cheap at this point. Sipahi should help me capture the rubber I need. Unfortunately, I have an MPP with England (no idea why I did that), which is closer to the rubber than I (it's sitting alone in the middle of a jungle, and if I DoW vs. Egypt, England will, too, and could get to it first. Then again, if I trade them up to Replaceable Parts, I might be able to trade for the extra.

 

[Takhisis]

I think you can just undo the MPP with England.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

I think you can just undo the MPP with England.

Turns out I didn't need to ... England never DoW'd vs. Egypt, and I took it out in 4 turns, and have since hooked up my own coal and rubber, so for the moment I'm good to go.

But for future reference, how does one undo a MPP? Is that doable through the F4 screen?

 

[tjs282]

But for future reference, how does one undo a MPP? Is that doable through the F4 screen?

Yes. Once you're talking to the other Civ (Lizzie, in this case), go to 'Active deals': any deal which has run its full 20T (no number in parentheses next to it) can be selected, and then you click 'Clear table' to cancel it. You can do this to renegotiate Peace Treaties as well, either to demand concessions from the AI-Civ for renewing it (if they refuse, you're now at war), or just click 'Clear Table' (and confirm with the Military Advisor) to straight out declare war yourself.

But for the record, MPPs don't automatically force an ally to declare war on an enemy you've just declared on: they are only activated when one of the co-signee's units are attacked within their own borders, or their tiles are bombed. So after you had gone ahead and declared on Egypt, the English would only have been brought into the war by the Egyptians actually attacking across your (new) borders (e.g. while trying to take back the towns you'd already captured from them).

 

[WeirdoJoker]

Yes. Once you're talking to the other Civ (Lizzie, in this case), go to 'Active deals': any deal which has run its full 20T (no number in parentheses next to it) can be selected, and then you click 'Clear table' to cancel it. You can do this to renegotiate Peace Treaties as well, either to demand concessions from the AI-Civ for renewing it (if they refuse, you're now at war), or just click 'Clear Table' (and confirm with the Military Advisor) to straight out declare war yourself.

Ah, ok. I had understood Takhisis to have meant that a MPP that had not run its 20T could be undone, which I found surprising.

But for the record, MPPs don't automatically force an ally to declare war on an enemy you've just declared on: they are only activated when one of the co-signee's units are attacked within their own borders, or their tiles are bombed. So after you had gone ahead and declared on Egypt, the English would only have been brought into the war by the Egyptians actually attacking across your (new) borders (e.g. while trying to take back the towns you'd already captured from them).

I noticed that after I DoW'd Egypt ... conquered in 4 turns, too, as they turned out to be weaker than I had thought. (And last-minute upgrades from Knights to Sipahis helped a lot, too.)

 

[CKS]

But for the record, MPPs don't automatically force an ally to declare war on an enemy you've just declared on: they are only activated when one of the co-signee's units are attacked within their own borders,

Just a warning about this - if you don't want an MPP to activate, watch out for zone of control and defensive bombardment. If you have a unit with a zone of control on the border, and an enemy goes by, it counts as an attack (if they lose a hp) even though you didn't intentionally do anything. I'm not entirely sure about defensive bombardment, but I suspect it also triggers the MPP if it is successful.

 

[tjs282]

Just a warning about this - if you don't want an MPP to activate, watch out for zone of control and defensive bombardment. If you have a unit with a zone of control on the border, and an enemy goes by, it counts as an attack (if they lose a hp) even though you didn't intentionally do anything. I'm not entirely sure about defensive bombardment, but I suspect it also triggers the MPP if it is successful.

True.

OTOH, I now only ever sign MPPs shortly before I want/need them to be triggered anyway, e.g. to break an inconvenient MPP(s) between another Civ(s) and a preferred trading partner(s); or to embroil the tech-leader(s) in a multi-front war in order to slow them down (which worked beautifully in my current game: over the course of ~25T in the Modern Age, I went from 3 techs behind the Ottomans, to 2 techs ahead of them).

 

[Takhisis]

Ah, ok. I had understood Takhisis to have meant that a MPP that had not run its 20T could be undone, which I found surprising.

Hence my ‘I think’. I didn't know whether you had signed the MPP within the latest 20 turns or not.

Generally MPPs are a waste of time unless they can secure you luxuries or tribute or strategic resources along with them and once the 20 turns have elapsed you can quietly ask for more payment or drop the MPP.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

Generally MPPs are a waste of time unless they can secure you luxuries or tribute or strategic resources along with them and once the 20 turns have elapsed you can quietly ask for more payment or drop the MPP.

I'm beginning to share that opinion. An MPP with England dragged me into a war with Carthage ... England DoW'd Carthage, who then attacked England. The good news is I'm getting territory & resources, while England seems to not be doing much ... they might get a town or two, but I've got most of it already.

So it's not bad, but it's a distraction since I want the Spaceship and don't care about Conquest/Domination this game. On the other hand, it may make it more likely I get the other resources I want, since it seems to be a generally resource-poor map.

 

[Spoonwood]

However, the Iroquois are religious, so they would have lost only 2 turns that way...

Are you talking Conquests or PTW?

 

[Lanzelot]

Are you talking Conquests or PTW?

Hmm, I guess I was talking about both at the same time (and failed bitterly... )
Let me try to get it straight:

• In PtW a religious Civ has 1 turn anarchy, in C3C 2 turns.
• In PtW the Iroquois are religious/expansionist, in C3C agricultural/commercial

So somehow I still had their PtW traits in mind, but used the religious anarchy period of C3C...

BTW: the Iroquois seem to be the only tribe that got both of their traits changed from PtW to C3C?!

 

[WeirdoJoker]

I'm trying to figure out why my military forces are so bad ... basically, getting regularly pummeled (not just once in a while) by inferior units. Any reason for this, or am I just unlucky?

Playing Warlord/Ottomans/Standard map/seeking spaceship/fighting the English against my will (thanks to my stupid MPP w/ France).

 

[Takhisis]

The terrain might have a bit to do with it.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

The terrain might have a bit to do with it.

I thought that might be so, and have tried to keep it relatively even ... at my next session, I'll try and track the next couple turns (if I can't stop the stupid thing altogether) and see what happens.