They are actually flagged with both Offense and Defense AI strategies.
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- Thread starter Turner
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They are actually flagged with both Offense and Defense AI strategies.
Which part of what I said is not true? You only make reference to "set as offensive units", but I didn't make any reference to them not being ever used offensively, I said it will produce the most offensive possible, and it views 6(6) as more offensive than 6, what's the issue?
Somehow i doubt that AI will favour Guerilla over infantry for offensive purposes, i would expect AI to think of them as equal as their offensive values are the same and the defensive bombardement does not help at attack either.
"and Infantry aren't an offensive unit."
In terms of AI Infantry is an offensive unit.
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
I can think of two or three possibilities offhand:
- the AICiv didn't actually have Rubber available at the time that the Rambo-builds were started, because e.g.
- the Rambos were built before the AICiv acquired its first Rubber resource
- the city(s) building the Rambos wasn't hooked to the AICiv's trade network
- the AICiv had previously had two Rubber resources, but was selling the second when it lost the first
- the AICiv found itself with sufficient cash to upgrade its leftover Maces, i.e. it wasn't actually building the Rambos preferentially
- you're playing a Mod where Rambos have Hidden Nationality, which makes the AI build them like crazy
Ah, you read the question differently to how I read it.
I read it as "why does the build options screen automatically default to weird military units after I complete a building structure in one of my own cities?" and not "Why does the AI build XYZ unit when there are better options available?"
I've just gone through some saves and get the following results:
Ancient Age:
Options available - Warrior, Spearman, Archer - Building queue defaults to Warrior (odd one out for my theory)
Medieval Age:
Options available - Medieval Infantry, Pikeman, Longbowman - Building queue defaults to Longbowmen (because they have Bombard)
Industrial Age:
Options available - Cavalry, Infantry, Guerrilla - Building queue defaults to Guerrilla (because they have Bombard)
Modern Age:
Options available - TOW Infantry, Mech Infantry, Tank - Building queue defaults to Flak then Mobile Sam (because "it has a high anti-air rating" - anti-air defence 2 for Flack, 4 for Mobile Sam)
So the game is choosing the unit with the 'highest power' rating (except in the Ancient Age for some reason), but it's view on why it sees them as higher power is abstract compared to a human eye.
The confusion about whether a unit is in a Defence or Offencive strategy is, as per usual, a diversion to my point on a diversion I did not intend with my meaning. "I" refer to XYZ Unit as defencive or offensive, but I did not mean that in some "game-specific recognised terminology", I meant it literally from the player's perspective via the upgrade tree.
So if I now change my wording to "most powerful" that should alleviate the nonsense derail argument to my point. The building screen option will default to whichever unit the AI thinks is most powerful - and that power rating is based on the supplemental effects rather than base stats, such as Bombard or Air-Defence.
If the same mentality is producing the AI build-queue then that then explains why, when you attack an AI, they always seem to have really odd selections of units.
The AI can use any unit as an 'offensive' unit, I've had red-lined Pikemen assault towns before. I've had hordes of Riflemen attack towns before. The issue of whether something is defensive or offensive is just one massive side-track to my point. Perhaps I unknowingly worded my post badly, but then I can't second guess every word a complete pedant will pick-up on from years of meme generation.
I read it as "why does the build options screen automatically default to weird military units after I complete a building structure in one of my own cities?" and not "Why does the AI build XYZ unit when there are better options available?"
I've just gone through some saves and get the following results:
Ancient Age:
Options available - Warrior, Spearman, Archer - Building queue defaults to Warrior (odd one out for my theory)
Medieval Age:
Options available - Medieval Infantry, Pikeman, Longbowman - Building queue defaults to Longbowmen (because they have Bombard)
Industrial Age:
Options available - Cavalry, Infantry, Guerrilla - Building queue defaults to Guerrilla (because they have Bombard)
Modern Age:
Options available - TOW Infantry, Mech Infantry, Tank - Building queue defaults to Flak then Mobile Sam (because "it has a high anti-air rating" - anti-air defence 2 for Flack, 4 for Mobile Sam)
So the game is choosing the unit with the 'highest power' rating (except in the Ancient Age for some reason), but it's view on why it sees them as higher power is abstract compared to a human eye.
The confusion about whether a unit is in a Defence or Offencive strategy is, as per usual, a diversion to my point on a diversion I did not intend with my meaning. "I" refer to XYZ Unit as defencive or offensive, but I did not mean that in some "game-specific recognised terminology", I meant it literally from the player's perspective via the upgrade tree.
So if I now change my wording to "most powerful" that should alleviate the nonsense derail argument to my point. The building screen option will default to whichever unit the AI thinks is most powerful - and that power rating is based on the supplemental effects rather than base stats, such as Bombard or Air-Defence.
If the same mentality is producing the AI build-queue then that then explains why, when you attack an AI, they always seem to have really odd selections of units.
The AI can use any unit as an 'offensive' unit, I've had red-lined Pikemen assault towns before. I've had hordes of Riflemen attack towns before. The issue of whether something is defensive or offensive is just one massive side-track to my point. Perhaps I unknowingly worded my post badly, but then I can't second guess every word a complete pedant will pick-up on from years of meme generation.
Donny Brook
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2004
- Messages
- 120
Sorry for the rudimentary questions...been two years away from the game and I'm a bit rusty.
Is it a game feature that you will never pop the tech that you are currently researching? Started several games over the past few weeks and that's been my experience.
Is it a game feature that you will never pop the tech that you are currently researching? Started several games over the past few weeks and that's been my experience.
Lord AJ
The Quartermaster
@Buttercup
I think there's a setting somewhere in the preferences which says that "Build already built units" or something like that. Maybe you had that ticked on so the queue defaulted to warrior in the AA. This however would also mean that your other observations are flawed too, again due to that setting.
I think there's a setting somewhere in the preferences which says that "Build already built units" or something like that. Maybe you had that ticked on so the queue defaulted to warrior in the AA. This however would also mean that your other observations are flawed too, again due to that setting.
Arjav Jain
The CIVVER
Not to sound toooooo frustrated, but I quite clearly said AFTER BUILDING A BUILDING.
Donny Brook
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2004
- Messages
- 120
Lord AJ
The Quartermaster
How does the AI decide what improvement to build next in a city and when to switch to a wonder. I've seen many times that it states wonders at random or maybe when gaining a tech that was needed for the wonder but the improvement building is beyond me. In general however the AI seems to be always building the latest improvement available or sometimes the improvement giving culture (Cathedrals, University etc) but I've also seen it build marketplaces at times and I'm unable to draw a conclusion of all this. Is there any known specific order of preference that the AI adopts for this?
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
If an AICiv arrives at any given victory condition before the human player, it does so 'accidentally', not as the result of forward planning.
All 'decisions' that the AI makes regarding trades and DoWs etc. are made on a turn-by-turn basis, based solely on the current gamestate (including any previous permanent/temporary flags, e.g. regarding trade-reputation or trustworthiness). That's why the AICivs will frequently agree to very favorable trade-deals (for them) and then 2T later break those deals with a DoW.
Its selection of the next build(s) must therefore also be based on the current gamestate (e.g. peace vs. war, city size + productivity, techs known, resources available). I do not belive that it blindly follows a predetermined 'build-order', as such -- but it tends to build some buildings earlier and/or more often than others because they are more 'desirable' according to the relevant firm-coded values from the .bic file (e.g. difficulty-based cost-factors, trait-based discounts and build-preferences for each AICiv) -- with Wonders almost always being the most desirable of all improvements, regardless of AI-traits.
I have the impression that it also performs a calculation of 'turns to completion' based on the town's current unwasted SPT (and any shields already accumulated), and then chooses (or switches to) the most 'desired' improvement (according to the above criteria) that the city can complete within a hardcoded maximum timeframe, otherwise it defaults to a unit-build. If I'm right, the question would be, 'what is the threshold at which an AI would consider an improvement-build to become non-viable?' -- and I suspect that maximum to be ~30T.
So e.g. if an improvement costs 200s, it wouldn't begin work on that improvement until the town was making at least 200/30 = 7SPT (and at least +2FPT net).
Similarly, buildings subject to trait-discounts (e.g. Raxes and Walls for MIL-civs) would tend to be built earlier by civs with those traits than civs without, simply because those are cheaper for them and will therefore become buildable sooner (because a city doesn't need as high an SPT to drop below the max. 'turns-to-completion' threshold). And -- at least in the early game -- IND-and AGRI-civs' cities will tend to have more buildings completed over a given time than non-IND and non-AGRI civs, because they can get higher SPT sooner (more mines completed, or faster pop growth).
The trigger for beginning (or switching to) a Wonder (Small or Great) does indeed appear to be getting the tech for it. And I have never seen an AICiv start a GWonder-build in a city that has no chance of completing it before a competitor (e.g. 1-shield towns). However, the AI can and does switch production midstream, if a new tech-acquistion makes possible a more 'desirable' improvement (or Wonder), which may explain why it frequently begins (or switches to) a Wonder-build in a town/city that a human player would consider only marginal for productivity.
e.g. if it already had ~100s in the box for a current 120s-build at, say 5SPT, and then acquired a tech that enabled a more 'desirable' 200s improvement (or Wonder), it might well switch the build midstream, since it would then 'only' need another 20T to finish that build.
Spoiler :
Lord AJ
The Quartermaster
The things you said, now that you've said them seem to coincide with my general observations tjs282. Thanks.
Lord AJ
The Quartermaster
What exactly is the effect of Universal Suffrage on War Weariness? It reduces ww. Okay. But by how much?
It would have been so nice if the people at Firaxis had kept all these available in the Civilopedia......
It would have been so nice if the people at Firaxis had kept all these available in the Civilopedia......
Is there a way to pause the dowloaded gotm?
Is a tad Hard to keep playing trough the night at My age.
And are you allowed to overtake your AI'S cities via culture?
Or should you decline...
Sendt fra min SM-G850F med Tapatalk
Is a tad Hard to keep playing trough the night at My age.
And are you allowed to overtake your AI'S cities via culture?
Or should you decline...
Sendt fra min SM-G850F med Tapatalk
darski
Regent in Training
I can think of two or three possibilities offhand:
Actually, something else just occurred: (I can't remember for sure, but) if Rubber's not available, can Rambos be conscripted? And if so, are Conscripts always flagged as Defenders, or can they also be flagged as Attackers, if the conscripted unit has both AI-strategy flags?
- the AICiv didn't actually have Rubber available at the time that the Rambo-builds were started, because e.g.
- the Rambos were built before the AICiv acquired its first Rubber resource
- the city(s) building the Rambos wasn't hooked to the AICiv's trade network
- the AICiv had previously had two Rubber resources, but was selling the second when it lost the first
- the AICiv found itself with sufficient cash to upgrade its leftover Maces, i.e. it wasn't actually building the Rambos preferentially
- you're playing a Mod where Rambos have Hidden Nationality, which makes the AI build them like crazy
It was not the AI choosing this. It was my city governor's suggestion every time a build could begin. I owned my entire continent with several rubber sources - which I never trade. This continued to the end of the game even though I had the cities build an infantry now and then so they could see the possibilities.
Lord AJ
The Quartermaster
Yes you are allowed to do that. it isn't practical to finish most games in one sitting.
Talking of culture flips, yes they too can be used to get AI cities. So both the things are perfectly legal.
