Quick question about Power (for Factories)

[lymond]

I'm basically a Monarch level player now, but still struggle sometimes with all the advance stuff in the late game. I've been working hard recently to really make my production more effective in the late game. It really is pretty awesome if you set things up right and really grow your cities.

I built the Three Gorges damn which provides a nice power boost to all my cities on the continent. My question is whether the other power sources are still viable such as Coal and Hydro - or just wasted hammers at this point. Hydro seems redundant really but the option to build is still there. In other words, is there a cumulative effect from these power sources. Interesting, in Bug/BAT these sources do not show the actuals anymore.

Reason I ask is I don't often build the Gorges.

thanks

 

[shyuhe]

It's not cumulative, but they'll kick in if you lose the city with the dam.

 

[bestsss]

The only active effect might be the broken event that grants 4 raw hammers to the coal plant (which don't produce unhealthiness any more)

 

[lymond]

So the following statements or true:

1) If Gorges built, no Coal or Hydro Plant needed

2) If Coal Plant, no Hydro needed and vice versa. Obviously, there maybe resource issue here and Hydro is probably better due to no unhealthiness. Coal Plant is earlier though

 

[vanatteveldt]

Correct, but if you have a coal plant you can still build hydro to get rid of unhappy. So, build coal first (if the city can use the power), and possibly replace by hydro (or Gorges aka 3GD) later)

 

[Inso]

So building a hydro plant in a city which already has a coal plant will remove the unhealthiness from the coal plant?

 

[huerfanista]

So the following statements or true:

1) If Gorges built, no Coal or Hydro Plant needed

2) If Coal Plant, no Hydro needed and vice versa. Obviously, there maybe resource issue here and Hydro is probably better due to no unhealthiness. Coal Plant is earlier though

IIRC, 3GD only supplies power on the continent on which it's built, so don't expect it to power anything overseas if you're on multiple landmasses.

 

[Soundwαvє ▼]

If I understand right, they are not cumulative so then when you can build hydros you can also sell the coal when the hydro is finished or it replaces?

Thanks

 

[StargazingDog]

You can sell/destroy existing buildings?

 

[King Pluto]

You can sell/destroy existing buildings?

No.

5 chars

 

[mjf200]

I think in previous versions of civ you could but I don't think in civ4. that would be nice for buildings that are obsolete.

 

[ChrisH]

IIRC the hydro plant requires a river, or fresh water?

 

[madscientist]

So building a hydro plant in a city which already has a coal plant will remove the unhealthiness from the coal plant?

Correct. You lose 2 unhealthy from coal but still have 2 unhealthy from Power.

 

[Artichoker]

A few clarifications:

1) In order to gain the power bonus for Factories, you only need one power source, which can be from any one of the following: a) Three Gorges Dam, b) Coal Plant, c) Hydro Plant, Nuclear Plant.

2) By having the Factory, you potentially have 3 sources of unhealthiness: a) the +1 from the Factory itself, b) the +2 from Coal and/or Oil (for a maximum of +4), and c) the +2 from Power.

3) By having the Coal Plant, you add an additional +2 unhealthiness if you have Coal. If you use a Hydro Plant (or Three Gorges Dam) instead, this penalty is removed.


So, for example, having a Factory and Coal Plant, with access to both Coal and Oil, will add a total unhealthiness of the following:

+1 for the Factory itself
+2 for access to Coal w/Factory
+2 for access to Oil w/Factory
+2 for Power w/Factory
+2 for access to Coal w/Coal Plant

In total, this is an unhealthiness bonus of +9.

With the Hydro Plant or Three Gorges Dam, you have the following:

+1 for the Factory itself
+2 for access to Coal w/Factory
+2 for access to Oil w/Factory
+2 for Power w/Factory

This gives a bonus of +7. But there is a catch here--since you don't need access to Coal to use Hydro Power, you can either disconnect your Coal or trade it away, which will lower your unhealthiness to +5. Of course, this eliminates the +50% bonus you can get from the Ironworks with Coal access.


Edit: The game rules do not explicitly state that there is an unhealthiness bonus from Power itself, but from my impression there is one. In case there isn't a bonus from Power itself, then the above unhealthiness totals should be adjusted to +7 for the Factory+Coal Plant and +5 for the Factory+Hydro Plant.

 

[catfish99]

If you are late game and building the 3GD, I would rather build a Recycling Plant for 300 than a hydro for 200, and get rid of all the building-related unhealthiness instead of just the coal-related.

 

[madscientist]

Artichoker, excellent summary. The only thing missing is the Japanese Shale Plant which allows you to completely eliminate all coal and save 4 unhealthiness. The Ironworks is still a problem though.

Also to get power to the National PArt city you can only use a hydro-plant, Nuke Plant, or the 3GDam.

 

[Artichoker]

Artichoker, excellent summary. The only thing missing is the Japanese Shale Plant which allows you to completely eliminate all coal and save 4 unhealthiness. The Ironworks is still a problem though.

Also to get power to the National PArt city you can only use a hydro-plant, Nuke Plant, or the 3GDam.

I'll go home to confirm whether the things I summarized are correct.

 

[Artichoker]

So, for example, having a Factory and Coal Plant, with access to both Coal and Oil, will add a total unhealthiness of the following:

+1 for the Factory itself
+2 for access to Coal w/Factory
+2 for access to Oil w/Factory
+2 for Power w/Factory
+2 for access to Coal w/Coal Plant

In total, this is an unhealthiness bonus of +9.

With the Hydro Plant or Three Gorges Dam, you have the following:

+1 for the Factory itself
+2 for access to Coal w/Factory
+2 for access to Oil w/Factory
+2 for Power w/Factory

This gives a bonus of +7. But there is a catch here--since you don't need access to Coal to use Hydro Power, you can either disconnect your Coal or trade it away, which will lower your unhealthiness to +5. Of course, this eliminates the +50% bonus you can get from the Ironworks with Coal access.

Looks like my memory was correct...+9 unhealth with Factory+Coal Plant, assuming both Oil and Coal. A Nuclear Plant or Hydro Plant is -2 unhealth compared to a Coal Plant, for a total of +7 unhealth.

 

[lymond]

So if I'm getting this right, if you've built Coal plants already then the only benefit from building Hydros in cities that you can is to reduce unhealthiness. The Hydro actually replaces the coal plant, is that correct? So, you really only build it if suffering from greenies. Otherwise, it's just wasted hammers.

 

[madscientist]

So if I'm getting this right, if you've built Coal plants already then the only benefit from building Hydros in cities that you can is to reduce unhealthiness. The Hydro actually replaces the coal plant, is that correct? So, you really only build it if suffering from greenies. Otherwise, it's just wasted hammers.

Correct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One other point about hydro-pants, is that there is a nasty random event that destroys the hydroplant and loses population. Rare, but seams to happen about once every other game to me.