Quick Questions , Quick Answers

[Thunderbrd]

I've built a few normal units with high XP, yet they also can't Quality Up no matter what, despite technically being eligible on all counts.
So it's something about Options, not the feature itself.
Is any other Option affecting (or relying on) Size_Matters in ANY way?
Or are you SURE that Quality Up isn't hardwired (through procedural code, not defines) to rely on another promotion, and thus I don't see it because of that?
This is really BUGGY, if you ask me.

I was trying to explain that you can't have TOO much XP or it won't let you. You have to only be qualified for one promotion selection for it to be available. And there IS a maximum of Divine rank as well.

 

[Somebody613]

I was trying to explain that you can't have TOO much XP or it won't let you. You have to only be qualified for one promotion selection for it to be available. And there IS a maximum of Divine rank as well.

Can you please STOP talking to me like I'm some little noob kid here?
While I don't know a thing about Python (hence me asking about "procedural code"), I still understand the normal XML well enough.
So the Promotions XML clearly tells me that Quality relies solely on:
1. Size_Matters.
2. Unit's level.
Which means that when I build a normal unit and it reaches a high enough level, it SHOULD be eligible for Quality UP.
Except this is NOT what I see in my game now.
I have a couple units with a really high XP (had been hunting around for a long time, plus some XP boosts), and I can *see* their current Quality, ya know.
So, on all counts, these particular units SHOULD be eligible for Quality UP.
Here's the SAVE, so can you please:
1. Run it on your game to check that this isn't BUG-related, and thus I have to check whether I messed something there.
2. Just take a good look at it - perhaps you can fix it somehow.
Thanks.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Can you please STOP talking to me like I'm some little noob kid here?

TBH I hardly understand your posts so it's hard to know what to say back to them half the time.

Here's the SAVE, so can you please:

I don't have time for save evaluations right now.

OK, that said I was willing to take a look and...

1) the cog that's out there cannot currently promote - it has a few more xp to go.
2) the flailman has been given so many experience points he cannot get down to the point where only one promotion is all he qualifies for, which is what I'm saying is required to take a quality-up promo. He runs out of promotions with thousands of XP left to go before he can even get it down to that point.
3) The Noble out there cannot currently promote.
4) Your Guard has no exp.

I don't see any other units you own aside from animals.

 

[W|M]

Why can't my clan-sized axeman units merge to form a horde?

Spoiler :

 

[Thunderbrd]

Why can't my clan-sized axeman units merge to form a horde?

Spoiler :

I'm guessing that's too many merges for the era you're in. You can only merge as many times as the era value (Prehistoric is 1, Ancient is 2 and so on)

 

[Somebody613]

TBH I hardly understand your posts so it's hard to know what to say back to them half the time.

I don't have time for save evaluations right now.

OK, that said I was willing to take a look and...

1) the cog that's out there cannot currently promote - it has a few more xp to go.
2) the flailman has been given so many experience points he cannot get down to the point where only one promotion is all he qualifies for, which is what I'm saying is required to take a quality-up promo. He runs out of promotions with thousands of XP left to go before he can even get it down to that point.
3) The Noble out there cannot currently promote.
4) Your Guard has no exp.

I don't see any other units you own aside from animals.

The question was about the "out-in-the-sea" ship and about the "noble" hero - those two are normal units, built in-game.
The super-fused "freak with a million XP" was scenario'd (and then upgraded, but it doesn't change anything), and I already get it that this was THE mistake there.
But the other two units SHOULD be eligible - or are you saying that even now they don't yet have enough XP, wow?
I mean, I'll continue playing and will see it eventually, but this looks strange, since I definitely remember my (way long ago) plays, where I had lots of units Quality UP.
Given how it's a bit hard to hoard THIS much XP, it confuses me as to what the hell was I doing in THOSE games to earn so much of it, lol.
But maybe there was a lot more of WARS, so it simply eventually got there, huh.
I'll tell you, if and when this finally reaches the threshold, of course.
Should be the ship, probably - lower Quality and meets lots of stupid birds out there, lol.
Thanks for looking into it.

 

[Thunderbrd]

The question was about the "out-in-the-sea" ship and about the "noble" hero - those two are normal units, built in-game.
The super-fused "freak with a million XP" was scenario'd (and then upgraded, but it doesn't change anything), and I already get it that this was THE mistake there.
But the other two units SHOULD be eligible - or are you saying that even now they don't yet have enough XP, wow?
I mean, I'll continue playing and will see it eventually, but this looks strange, since I definitely remember my (way long ago) plays, where I had lots of units Quality UP.
Given how it's a bit hard to hoard THIS much XP, it confuses me as to what the hell was I doing in THOSE games to earn so much of it, lol.
But maybe there was a lot more of WARS, so it simply eventually got there, huh.
I'll tell you, if and when this finally reaches the threshold, of course.
Should be the ship, probably - lower Quality and meets lots of stupid birds out there, lol.
Thanks for looking into it.

Yeah when they can next promote you can share the save again.

 

[Somebody613]

Yeah when they can next promote you can share the save again.

I'll be going to play a bit in a couple of hours or so.
If you are right, then it's fine, but still really weird.

 

[raxo2222]

Quality changing promos (they all require Size Matters).

Upward (unit level required)
Unearthly Ability (Epic -> Divine) - LV. 20
Legendary Prowess (Elite -> Epic) - LV. 15
Unbelievable Expertise (Exceptional -> Elite) - LV. 11
Astonishing Acumen (Superior -> Exceptional) - LV. 8
Absolute Proficiency (Standard -> Superior) - LV. 6
Natural Talent (Mediocre -> Standard) - LV. 4
Better Skill (Poor -> Mediocre) - LV. 3
Emerging Competence (Inferior -> Poor) - LV. 2
Learned Aggression (Pathetic -> Inferior) - LV. 1
Barely Capable (Incapable -> Pathetic)

Downward (no level requirement, stuck as WIP):
Fallen Grace (Epic <- Divine)
Tarnished Supremacy (Elite <- Epic)
Eroded Superiority (Exceptional <- Elite)
Once Great (Superior <- Exceptional)
Simply Average (Standard <- Superior)
Slightly Entropic (Mediocre <- Standard)
Jaded Decadence (Poor <- Mediocre)
Paralytic Personality (Inferior <- Poor)
Absolute Enfeeblement (Pathetic <- Inferior)
Completely Incapacitated (Incapable <- Pathetic)

It was Might promotion, that is tied to lifestyle techs and to quality levels.

Thanos was Superior quality before getting infinity stones, and each one was equivalent to Quality Up promotion
Or Ironman upgrading his suit.

 

[Thunderbrd]

stuck as WIP

I suppose - more that the option is there to use if a cause comes up to use it somehow. Maybe some diseases might cause a temporary reduction in quality? I don't know - I often just leave things possible where I see the potential for a modder to want to do something with that later.

 

[raxo2222]

I suppose - more that the option is there to use if a cause comes up to use it somehow. Maybe some diseases might cause a temporary reduction in quality? I don't know - I often just leave things possible where I see the potential for a modder to want to do something with that later.

Pacifism civic could cause shift down.
Or military civics, that rely on sheer quantity.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Pacifism civic could cause shift down.
Or military civics, that rely on sheer quantity.

Very interesting. It might be tricky to setup but some good thinking.

 

[Somebody613]

Very interesting. It might be tricky to setup but some good thinking.

Why tricky?
Some buildings stuff already relies on civics, so why not promotions as well?
At least allowing to use them or not, since forcibly downgrading probably would be way over the top problematic.
Oh, wait, units DO "kick out an error" when they have UNSUITABLE promotions on them, lol.
So, yes, you CAN make them Quality DOWN based on civics - it doesn't even require much modding as of it is right now, wow.
Not that I'd WANT it, of course, lol.

Gonna play test some more now.

 

[Somebody613]

Here's yet another save of the same game.
It has the "normal" ship (near India) at a strange level 29 (with all signs of having Quality Uped, since it has a 400 XP gap, except it didn't, neither factually nor text-wise).
It MIGHT have something to do with having Leader AND Noble attached to it - I have no idea, how, but MAYBE.
It's a NORMAL unit, it gained all that XP through normal means, so it SHOULD be capable of Quality Up, dammit.
Definitely SOME bug, please check it.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Why tricky?
Some buildings stuff already relies on civics, so why not promotions as well?
At least allowing to use them or not, since forcibly downgrading probably would be way over the top problematic.
Oh, wait, units DO "kick out an error" when they have UNSUITABLE promotions on them, lol.
So, yes, you CAN make them Quality DOWN based on civics - it doesn't even require much modding as of it is right now, wow.
Not that I'd WANT it, of course, lol.

Gonna play test some more now.

Assigning quality promos is ... it comes with special considerations is all I'm going to say.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Here's yet another save of the same game.
It has the "normal" ship (near India) at a strange level 29 (with all signs of having Quality Uped, since it has a 400 XP gap, except it didn't, neither factually nor text-wise).
It MIGHT have something to do with having Leader AND Noble attached to it - I have no idea, how, but MAYBE.
It's a NORMAL unit, it gained all that XP through normal means, so it SHOULD be capable of Quality Up, dammit.
Definitely SOME bug, please check it.

Ok I'll look later tonight

 

[raxo2222]

Here's yet another save of the same game.
It has the "normal" ship (near India) at a strange level 29 (with all signs of having Quality Uped, since it has a 400 XP gap, except it didn't, neither factually nor text-wise).
It MIGHT have something to do with having Leader AND Noble attached to it - I have no idea, how, but MAYBE.
It's a NORMAL unit, it gained all that XP through normal means, so it SHOULD be capable of Quality Up, dammit.
Definitely SOME bug, please check it.

This ship is merged thrice (Size Up) and has Might promotions.
No Quality Up promos at all.

Spoiler :

Combat Quality is Standard.
This means Quality Up should be available at 6th level.

So most likely its fault of having Leader or Noble attached to it.
Gave XP for level up and passed turn, and indeed quality up promotion option didn't appear.

Warlords and Noble have Exceptional quality.
Removed both "Lead By..." promos, passed turn, and quality up promo didn't appear.
Maybe refactoring broke it, and now you have to specify all combat types to make it available for everyone.

Spoiler :

 

[Somebody613]

snip

Let's hope you find the issue.
I do wonder, though, why are the Minors suddenly so "strong", lol?
They were at 0.1-0.4 in my game, and now they're suddenly dozens of times "stronger".
Even if you killed the other units, the ship itself should be strong enough to outweigh them by far.
Could THAT have something to do with my problem?
Just guessing blindly, but you never know.

EDIT:
This isn't the first time Merging Leaders would cause bugs, really.
Not to mention how this "400 XP excess" was clearly missing just a few turns ago (check the previous save I uploaded).
Buggy bugs are buggy, huh.

 

[Thunderbrd]

This ship is merged thrice (Size Up) and has Might promotions.
No Quality Up promos at all.

Spoiler :

View attachment 584690

Combat Quality is Standard.
This means Quality Up should be available at 6th level.

So most likely its fault of having Leader or Noble attached to it.
Gave XP for level up and passed turn, and indeed quality up promotion option didn't appear.

Warlords and Noble have Exceptional quality.
Removed both "Lead By..." promos, passed turn, and quality up promo didn't appear.
Maybe refactoring broke it, and now you have to specify all combat types to make it available for everyone.

Spoiler :

View attachment 584693 View attachment 584694

Interesting. Well - I made a debug dll for some other goals last night - it shouldn't be TOO hard to look into what's causing a failure to make the qualityup appear. Thanks for running this initial check Raxo!

 

[Somebody613]

Yeah, I also hope for a solution, lol.