Quo's Combined Tweaks v7.0.19 BETA

[isau]

Anything in particular you are looking for as far as feedback goes for this version?

General feedback is welcomed.

FYI I am thinking of splitting off the current Spheres to add one more.



North Africa

• Egypt
• Nubia
• Carthage

This is mainly because Carthage is probably overpowered with the new Hellenic bonuses in the capital and her ability to move Capitals. I don't have any particular bonuses in mind for these civs. Maybe something related to trade. Thoughts?

 

[Guynemer]

In the Terra Mirabilis mod, one of the natural wonders (Sahara el Beyda) grants immunity to damage from dust storms. I have not had the opportunity to test if that works, but perhaps you could look at the code for that to see if it will work for your Middle East idea?

With the Asian Expanse sphere (I think that's what it is still called, the one that doesn't let you build industrial zones?), it is now very, very difficult to provide electrical power to your cities, as most power comes from industrial zone buildings. Renewables are still an option, but they come much later in the tech tree. This is a pretty significant malus; I'm not sure if it is imbalanced, as the bonus is quite substantial.

As for a North Africa sphere, the first thing I think of when I see that group is trade as well. Maybe an additional trade route for each level of government plaza building? Alternatively, a bonus to food in desert? As for a malus, I think of cavalry when I think of those civilizations, as opposed to infantry. Maybe all land infantry melee units suffer -2 combat strength?

 

[isau]

In the Terra Mirabilis mod, one of the natural wonders (Sahara el Beyda) grants immunity to damage from dust storms. I have not had the opportunity to test if that works, but perhaps you could look at the code for that to see if it will work for your Middle East idea?

With the Asian Expanse sphere (I think that's what it is still called, the one that doesn't let you build industrial zones?), it is now very, very difficult to provide electrical power to your cities, as most power comes from industrial zone buildings. Renewables are still an option, but they come much later in the tech tree. This is a pretty significant malus; I'm not sure if it is imbalanced, as the bonus is quite substantial.

As for a North Africa sphere, the first thing I think of when I see that group is trade as well. Maybe an additional trade route for each level of government plaza building? Alternatively, a bonus to food in desert? As for a malus, I think of cavalry when I think of those civilizations, as opposed to infantry. Maybe all land infantry melee units suffer -2 combat strength?

Thanks for the feedback. It is always much appreciated.

I made the decision to push forward with North Africa as a sphere and have had some success in testing. I've decided it will probably include only Phoenicia and Egpyt and look something like this:

Silly loading screen popping up right on top of my text on the loading screens but nothing can be done about that...

I have all of these features working. What I am not settled on is the specifics of the malus. Probably there should be some kind of penalty to using another civs units. I'd prefer not some minor economic penalty. Something that actually affects how combat plays out when you roll a North African AI and have to deal with them as a player.

 

[isau]

isau updated Quo's Combined Tweaks with a new update entry:

Quo's Combined Tweaks v7.0.15 ALPHA

This patch adds the North African sphere to the game.

North Africa

• Egypt
• Phoenicia

'Land units with Ranged attacks cannot fire after moving unless on horseback or unlocked by Renaissance or later era technologies. Land and sea trade routes are immune to plunder. Constructs most unique units available to Hellenic or Middle Eastern civilizations instead of standard units, but these borrowed-sphere units fight with -5 Strength.


No other changes have been made in...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Guynemer]

I forgot to mention, the pairidaeza graphic glitch is still present. Cyrus's own show up just fine, and other unique improvements granted by friendship bonuses (such as the ziggurat or chateau) show up just fine.

I'm not sure if you had made any changes to address that previously, but if you had, it didn't take.

I'll give Egypt or Phoenicia a go in my next game; my initial impression before trying is that I like the trade route immunity, the slowed archers are an okay malus. The other unique units is kind of a mixed bag, though. Will building them grant the unique unit era score? That might be too overpowered.

 

[isau]

I forgot to mention, the pairidaeza graphic glitch is still present. Cyrus's own show up just fine, and other unique improvements granted by friendship bonuses (such as the ziggurat or chateau) show up just fine.

I'm not sure if you had made any changes to address that previously, but if you had, it didn't take.

I'll give Egypt or Phoenicia a go in my next game; my initial impression before trying is that I like the trade route immunity, the slowed archers are an okay malus. The other unique units is kind of a mixed bag, though. Will building them grant the unique unit era score? That might be too overpowered.

It does provide era score right now. I have mixed feelings about keeping or leaving it. On the one hand, one Sphere that has a super easy time guaranteeing a Golden Age in a given period is very much within the spirit of this mod. On the other I can see how some people might not like it.

The mod adds 6 units (unless you have additional units via a fan made mod), so the civ gets an extra 24 era score points.

I could change the nature of the units that are included. Hellenic and Middle Eastern units seemed most appropriate given North Africa has often been the vector between the two. Another version would create a unit list more like this:

• Indian Varu
• Khmer Domrey (if enabled)
• Arabian Mamluk
• Ottoman Barbary Corsair

That list would be idiosyncratic though and not based on any particular aspect of these units in the database other than that they felt North-African-y.

Note in the current ability set, the Warcart and Jannisary are not included. Warcart is not because it would be outrageously overpowered. The Jannisary because the ability only provides "civilization" units and not also leader units (since leaders technically do not have Spheres, civilizations do.)

 

[isau]

For people interested in data, here is the current query used to create the North African unit table and the results in a game with no added fan made units or civs.

The War Cart, as you will note, is specifically excluded due to concerns about how powerful it would be.

 

[bagas12]

Really interesting change to Egypt and Phoenicia, will be testing them soon, and its true both carthage and egypt at some point had "hellenic" units on it, like the ganbiniani (Legion) for egypt, or the sacred band with carthage (hoplites, hypapists) as well as some others examples. But i guess is better to pick and choose the units anyway even if they are not part of a "group", gameplay triumphs over clarity imo

I was also was tinkering about the hellenic sphere, since you are still trying stuff and your going for a theme about their huge moments of turmoil and their whole eventual downfall i was thinking, how about you turn it to 11?

A possible way to do it is to create a "psedo civil war", like, if you get a dark age every city get a minus of loyalty resulting in every city you own flipping, but if you can get it back you get a big bonus of loyalty so it can't flip it again in this age, it would work like this, dark age loyalty = - X (something really big), city's conquered on a dark age = + X loyalty, so they negate the minus if "conquered or reconquered"

 

[Ewsforos]

A possible way to do it is to create a "psedo civil war", like, if you get a dark age every city get a minus of loyalty resulting in every city you own flipping, but if you can get it back you get a big bonus of loyalty so it can't flip it again in this age, it would work like this, dark age loyalty = - X (something really big), city's conquered on a dark age = + X loyalty, so they negate the minus if "conquered or reconquered"

can work , if cities don't lose population on those flips and on reconquering, something like Ottomans right now. otherwise it will be too much of a bother.
can also make it that if someone declare war on you while your cities are in this state , to take them back to your control, like Greeks fought together a common enemy, halting their inner wars for the time being, and maybe after resume or something.

 

[isau]

Really interesting change to Egypt and Phoenicia, will be testing them soon, and its true both carthage and egypt at some point had "hellenic" units on it, like the ganbiniani (Legion) for egypt, or the sacred band with carthage (hoplites, hypapists) as well as some others examples. But i guess is better to pick and choose the units anyway even if they are not part of a "group", gameplay triumphs over clarity imo

I was also was tinkering about the hellenic sphere, since you are still trying stuff and your going for a theme about their huge moments of turmoil and their whole eventual downfall i was thinking, how about you turn it to 11?

A possible way to do it is to create a "psedo civil war", like, if you get a dark age every city get a minus of loyalty resulting in every city you own flipping, but if you can get it back you get a big bonus of loyalty so it can't flip it again in this age, it would work like this, dark age loyalty = - X (something really big), city's conquered on a dark age = + X loyalty, so they negate the minus if "conquered or reconquered"

This is an interesting idea and while I cant make it work exactly this way I can thi k of some ways to maybe do something similar.

 

[Guynemer]

Haven't had the chance to test yet, but if North Africa doesn't work out, what about putting Egypt and Carthage in the Middle East sphere, and push Persia into Asian Expanse?

 

[aZzixPhoenix]

Hello, they are any problem with your last update ? I can't play anymore with your mod only

 

[isau]

Hello, they are any problem with your last update ? I can't play anymore with your mod only

There shouldnt be but thats why its an Alpha release. Can you post a copy of Database.log here after the mod fails to load?

 

[aZzixPhoenix]

Aye Sir !

[1850772.737] [Localization]: StartupErrorMessages.xml
[1850772.737] [Localization]: Input XML does not contain database entry tags. GameData, GameInfo or Database
[1850793.312] [Localization]: Validating Foreign Key Constraints...
[1850793.313] [Localization]: Passed Validation.
[1850793.585] [Configuration]: Validating Foreign Key Constraints...
[1850793.586] [Configuration]: Passed Validation.
[1850806.784] [FullTextSearch]: Initializing FullTextSearch
[1850809.795] [Gameplay]: Validating Foreign Key Constraints...
[1850809.810] [Gameplay]: Passed Validation.
[1850815.817] [Configuration]: Validating Foreign Key Constraints...
[1850815.818] [Configuration]: Passed Validation.
[1850819.741] [HallofFame]: Database found. Checking versions...
[1850819.786] [HallofFame]: Database is up-to-date!
[1850863.532] [FullTextSearch]: FTS - Creating Context
[1850865.740] [FullTextSearch]: FTS - Creating Context
[1850876.609] [Configuration]: Validating Foreign Key Constraints...
[1850876.609] [Configuration]: Passed Validation.
[1851124.537] [Gameplay] ERROR: FOREIGN KEY constraint failed
[1851124.537] [Gameplay] ERROR: FOREIGN KEY constraint failed
[1851124.537] [Gameplay]: Validating Foreign Key Constraints...
[1851124.541] [Gameplay] ERROR: Invalid Reference on CivilizationTraits.CivilizationType - "CIVILIZATION_NUBIA" does not exist in Civilizations
[1851124.569] [Gameplay]: Failed Validation.
[1851141.617] [Configuration]: Validating Foreign Key Constraints...
[1851141.618] [Configuration]: Passed Validation.
[1851143.821] [FullTextSearch]: FTS - Creating Context

 

[isau]

Ok the issue is related to a reference in the mod to the optional Nubia DLC. If you have the Nubia DLC, turn it on. If not, wait until I have time to fix.

 

[Guynemer]

One thing that just occurred to me about the North Africa sphere. It renders Dido's bireme somewhat irrelevant, as one of it's bonuses is protecting sea trade routes. Maybe change the unit bonus to an additional combat bonus against city centers, or if adjacent to another bireme?

EDIT: Also, that's three different unique swordsmen replacements. Just realized that. And that's actually pretty cool! You have to choose which one for which job.

EDIT THE SECOND: Okay, this is a big one. It also gives you access to the new unique units from the Steel & Thunder mod if you have it enabled--such as the Sumerian phalanx. I know you've said in the past that you basically consider the Steel & Thunder mods as something to build QCT around; unfortunately, it doesn't look like the North Africa sphere is going to be workable with that. At least the -5 combat strength still applies.

 

[isau]

One thing that just occurred to me about the North Africa sphere. It renders Dido's bireme somewhat irrelevant, as one of it's bonuses is protecting sea trade routes. Maybe change the unit bonus to an additional combat bonus against city centers, or if adjacent to another bireme?

EDIT: Also, that's three different unique swordsmen replacements. Just realized that. And that's actually pretty cool! You have to choose which one for which job.

EDIT THE SECOND: Okay, this is a big one. It also gives you access to the new unique units from the Steel & Thunder mod if you have it enabled--such as the Sumerian phalanx. I know you've said in the past that you basically consider the Steel & Thunder mods as something to build QCT around; unfortunately, it doesn't look like the North Africa sphere is going to be workable with that. At least the -5 combat strength still applies.

The bireme ability I find really silly so I am fine with this. Right now Dido is encouraged to keep some old biremes around to protect trade routes well into the 21st century. Thematic, I suppose, that she might have antique ships lying around. But I'd much rather blanket trade route safety. That ability fits better with the general "gonzoness" of this mod and the abilities it provides. I designed each civ with the idea that it gets to ignore at least one general category of rules that normally apply.

Regarding Steel and Thunder, I haven't worked with that mod in some time. As written, the QTC mod will grab units based on affiliation with a civilization if that civilization is part of the sphere. I could lock out units from appearing manually or just revise the list to be a hardcoded rather than dynamically adjusting list of that is what players prefer.

 

[isau]

isau updated Quo's Combined Tweaks with a new update entry:

Quo's Combined Tweaks v7.0.16 ALPHA

This is a bug fix release.

• Fixed a bug that caused the mod to crash back to the main menu if the game was started without the Aztecs DLS enabled
• Fixed a bug that caused the mod to crash back to the main menu if the game was started without the Nubia DLS enabled

Please continue to report bugs and issues along with comments.

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Guynemer]

The bireme ability I find really silly so I am fine with this. Right now Dido is encouraged to keep some old biremes around to protect trade routes well into the 21st century. Thematic, I suppose, that she might have antique ships lying around. But I'd much rather blanket trade route safety. That ability fits better with the general "gonzoness" of this mod and the abilities it provides. I designed each civ with the idea that it gets to ignore at least one general category of rules that normally apply.

I totally agree; I was suggesting that the bireme itself be changed, dump its ability to protect trade routes and pick up something else, not change the North Africa sphere itself.

I could lock out units from appearing manually or just revise the list to be a hardcoded rather than dynamically adjusting list of that is what players prefer.

I think that would work better for mod compatibility, but that's just my opinion.

 

[VCrakeV]

I really like how spheres have improved since their introduction. I used to always turn them off, but I think I'll keep them on when I download the next update (I still have Arabesque with gold on rivers lol). I always found it strange that if i played as Arabia with spheres, I'd have half as many great person points (particularly odd for scientists). I'm glad that was traded for the golden age combat malus.

That said, I have some concerns. First of all, i feel like Asian Pacific, if not underpowered, is at least unappealing; I won't be using any Asian Pacific Civs, at least with spheres enabled, unless it's changed. The medieval era is a long wait for trade routes, and I don't believe the bonuses make up for it. While fisheries can make up for lost food from domestic routes, and gold from acquiring water tiles mostly makes up for international trade routes, you'll still be missing out on production from domestic routes. This is really important, as it helps jump start new cities, which you'll want to be doing more of in the earlier eras, when you're expanding the most, and don't have factories to help new cities.

Secondly, I'm worried that Nubia *might* be a little too powerful. I'll probably test them out with my next game, but here are my thoughts: Nubia doesn't have it's own district, so its unique infrastructure (Nubian pyramid) isn't obsoleted by the sphere; the Nubian pyramid itself is a solid improvement, especially when you're spamming districts; the housing bonus from Zulu's encampment and Kongo's neighborhood allows Nubia to focus on amenities (e.g in religious beliefs/pantheons) to grow huge cities early on. This allows Nubia to build even more districts.

Perhaps I'm overthinking the power of Nubia, and really it's just a neat synergization with its sphere. However, I feel more strongly about Asian Pacific needing some TLC.