R(hyes)ise and Fall

[Leoreth]

Who knows if Bethesda ever had the files? But theoretically that would be within their right, as is reuploading modding content created by someone else. It's happened before here on CFC.

 

[Pavel Chichikov]

Of course they are going above and beyond with representation. With a setting like this, you have to make compromises in "accuracy" if you want to do that. It's a choice you can or cannot make and I find it admirable that they decided to make it.

I don't understand the rationale of this. What's the point in forcing in historically minor figures over important ones just because of their gender?
Speaking of which, I was playing as Russia the other day and I got a few female Great Persons I'd never heard of, I couldn't even locate some on Wikipedia, Google or Yandex.

I think the main reason behind Georgia's inclusion is the meme, not Tamar.

?

Despite being a person that started at Civ V, i really don't like 1UPT. I don't know, it feels more fun creating a stack of horsemen, spears, swords and catapults and then plunge them all into a city.
Or, have a garrison of 10 archers in my town, decimating an army as they wittle them down, arrow by arrow.
And gameplay wise, 1UPT is so annoying when it comes to getting your units blocked by anything.

I had so many arguments over Civ V being trash, and the argument that always came up without fail was "stack of death" - as if that automatically ended any discussion. Siege anyone? Did they even play Civ IV?

About 1UPT, I think it's bad. I've spilled a lot of ink on why so you can search for those posts. But the central point is that it leads to a small world when modern 4Xs should strive for the opposite.

There was a great essay by a guy called "Sulla" something on how this led to all the myriad problems with Civ V, but I can no longer find it. Just from curiosity, did Civ 6 retain that system? I've taken no interest in Firaxis after Civ V and Colonization.

Is that a common policy? One Skyrim modder took all his mods down to protest Trump's election, and they were some of the biggest and most well-known Skyrim mods. You'd think Bethesda would have the courtesy to reupload them.

WTH? What did Trump getting elected have to with Skyrim mods?

 

[Steb]

Speaking of which, I was playing as Russia the other day and I got a few female Great Persons I'd never heard of, I couldn't even locate some on Wikipedia, Google or Yandex.

Which ones?

 

[Leoreth]

I don't understand the rationale of this. What's the point in forcing in historically minor figures over important ones just because of their gender?

It should be pretty obvious what the point is.

There was a great essay by a guy called "Sulla" something on how this led to all the myriad problems with Civ V, but I can no longer find it.

It's here, and a pretty solid review in my opinion.

Also can we please all collectively agree that Civ5 looks worse than Civ4?

 

[Mouthwash]

It should be pretty obvious what the point is.

Indeed, but I'm not sure why shoehorning in women for the sake of having them is 'admirable.' There were plenty of great women in history, but do they all deserve to be iconic figures of their entire country or culture?

 

[Pepo]

I don't like Civ V nor VI, but I wouldn't say that female leaders or GP are a bad thing. The only exception is the mecci, she feel forced considering her contributions compared to Napoleon or Louis XIV. Also Greece having a female leader, while their society was one of the most patriarchal of ancient times, doesn't seem to me like a good idea

As for copying this mod for the recent expansion, I totally disagree. The systems being introduced there aren't that similar. Finally I totally agree with Leoreth: the problem is that V and VI make the scale much smaller. Too bad Civ IV is limited by outdated processing power, a modern version would be incredible (still waiting for GOG to release a 64 bit version)

 

[Leoreth]

You're making the assumption that the point of having a leaderhead is to be an "iconic figure of their entire country or culture".

That's sort of the whole point. There are many baked in assumptions of what should and shouldn't be in a historical 4X game. I don't think these conventions are necessarily bad but neither is making different ones. Besides the actual stance being taken here, what I find mostly admirable is the degree to which they are willing to defy some of these conventions to take it.

 

[Mouthwash]

You're making the assumption that the point of having a leaderhead is to be an "iconic figure of their entire country or culture".

That's sort of the whole point. There are many baked in assumptions of what should and shouldn't be in a historical 4X game. I don't think these conventions are necessarily bad but neither is making different ones. Besides the actual stance being taken here, what I find mostly admirable is the degree to which they are willing to defy some of these conventions to take it.

Would you maintain this opinion if they gave maluses to science or great people to all African civs?

Would you find it objectionable if Firaxis used one of the two or so female Arab rulers in history to lead the Arab civilization?

 

[Leoreth]

Would you find it objectionable not to talk to people like you're in debate club?

 

[Mouthwash]

I certainly would. But I'll cut you some slack, since I appreciate your modding skills.

 

[Leoreth]

Alright, get back to me once you've sharpened your conversational skills.

 

[Pepo]

Also I've just remembered the other big problem with new Civ games: the diplomacy is completely nuts. If you conquer one city, the whole world turns against you. Things felt unlogical and forced, and I think that the stupid idea of leaders agenda is a move on the wrong path

Also Civ balance with their UP is a bigger mess than the one with Civ Iv traits

 

[ryanmusante]

Would you find it objectionable not to talk to people like you're in debate club?

Toasty!

 

[Mouthwash]

WTH? What did Trump getting elected have to with Skyrim mods?

He decided that if there were any Trump voters playing Skyrim, they didn't deserve to have access to his mods. Here's a conversation between him and another Skyrim player.

 

[Genghis Khaiser]

About Sulla's essay, there's a part that says:

There's a reason why the Civilization games have Golden Ages and not "Dark Ages" in them - the latter would not be fun for most players. (The Civ3 design team actually implemented a whole "Dark Ages" concept in the testing stages, and took it out of the game because it simply wasn't fun.)

Uhm... did you listen Civ6?

By the way, I haven't played Civ6 and, at least for now, I'm not interested. For now, I'll stick with Civ4's FfH and RFC mods. Especially this one.

 

[Leoreth]

Actually I disagree with this point. 4X games cannot become better until they destroy the player expectation that a good game can only be one of constant growth and success.

 

[Logoncal]

He decided that if there were any Trump voters playing Skyrim, they didn't deserve to have access to his mods. Here's a conversation between him and another Skyrim player.

I don't care what political side you are, but if you make this much of fuss in a video game, one that even has nothing to do with the real world politics, you are a ******. Simple.

I also read like 20% of the text that the mod creator wrote. It's another leftist cliché where he says that "all trump supporters are nazi but i'm not saying that lol why u hate blacks?"

 

[Leoreth]

That's clearly the reaction of someone who felt powerless and did something they had power over, even if it didn't really make sense.

 

[ales_]

?

In one of the preview videos of Civ6 a poster was seen on a wall in the background of a video. The image was low-quality but the fans have determined that these were pictures of leaders, in the alphabetical order of civs. They've figured out a lot of them but weren't able to determine who was between Frederick Barbarossa of Germany and Pericles of Greece, it was only clear that it was a female leader. After analyzing a list of possible civs, they've found Georgia and decided the leader is Tamar. However, it turned out there was an error in that list, and Georgia was erroneously placed after Germany (and the actual leader was Gorgo of Greece). But the meme was born, and now, every time a new leader was announced, fans were joking that it's Tamar of Georgia.

 

[Mouthwash]

Moderator Action: Post redacted. What good do you think would have come from bringing up this angle. Please think before you post. -- Leoreth