R:I. My personal spin-off

[TheBirdMan]

Just look at this. My first neighbor - and even multilingual......

Spoiler Spain - Carlos I :

If I had to be rude, I would say:: You could try in Danish........On the other hand, he seems to know something I don't. So for now: I will show myself from the friendly side.


Well, my next (and apparently nearest) neighbor seems more manageable. Now we'll see.

Spoiler England - Elizabeth I :

 

[TheBirdMan]

Even walls consumes resources. Don't expect to have enough to wall-in all your cities - so be happy that palisades provide some protection....

Spoiler You can't build your walls for "free". :

And now another leader steps onto the stage.

Spoiler Berbers - Abd al-Rahman :

Nice to see anohter nation with lower score than my own. Not because mine is particularly good - but an old proverb says: Own success is very good - but the failure of others is not to be despised.


Turn 352: IshtarGate secured.

Spoiler France - Louis XIV :

 

[TheBirdMan]

Finally. First decent roads made.

Spoiler Screenshot from my homeland :

Pls note the long distance between my cities. At least 5 tiles. If I didn't had this, this game would become unplayable before we entered the RenaissanceEra due to too many cities.

I have added this to the end of the ...

Spoiler .../Assets/XML/GlobalDefinesAlt.xml :

<Define>
<DefineName>MIN_CITY_RANGE</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>5</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>
</Civ4Defines>

Well, doesn't PavedRoad come soon you may ask?

No - because I think PavedRoads need more organisation (except in the cities and/or holy areas - and except for the Romans as a nation - maybe). So PavedRoads will not be possible before the nations learns the tech Administration.

 

[TheBirdMan]

Turn 425. Shipbuilding and the Classical Era.

And btw. I got greetings from another neighbor.

Spoiler Finland - Gustav II Adolf :

Normally a swedish monark - but on the other hand: Finland was part of Sweden for quite some years back in time. So it isn't that wrong afterall.

 

[TheBirdMan]

Turn 466. I just secured TheGreatLighthouse.

What else have happend since last post? Well I have meet some more nations and made some friendly relations with a few. Else not much.

And yet - it's time to expand overseas, even though I hardly can afford it. But I can see a few resources, that I want to get my hands on - preferable before anyone else.

Spoiler Meet your neighbors :

A Holy Roman Empire leader - but in this game I think I forget all about his holiness. So he fits in here just as a Roman leader.

Spoiler Present diplomatic relations between all :

 

[TheBirdMan]

Turn 567 - still behind, but not so much that I really worry.

Spoiler The Colossus :

All these portraits are more for the viewers, who don't play this wonderful version of Civ4.....

Spoiler More new neighbors - only missing 4 now. :

 

[TheBirdMan]

Daily News:

Spoiler Cheomseongdae is mine! :

Spoiler Red Alert - where is Tanya? :

No warning was received. My network of informants and spies seems to be on a beach vacation.

The red-painted english barbarians just declared war against a nation with only peacefully fisherman and farmers. Shame on them.

A pretty nice invasion I say. 11 sailboats with 2 units in each

Got one of their boats before they could land their troops - but still. A good army. Fortunately, the English are not yet familiar with the use of iron. Otherwise it would have looked much worse now.

Spoiler The battles for the city Fyrkat :

My city is placed on a hilltop, walled in and with 3 composite archers as defenders.

The attackers are - as you can see above - some of the best most nations have right now. Fortunately the english do not have any siegeweapons with them.

NeverTheLess - city lost. But the english paid a high price.

A skirmisher took it back - he died during the english next attack, but the citizens got some unexpected help during the english try to re-take the city (result of the IDW-function I think). That conscripted unit and another skirmisher finally broke the english. At least for now.

And wars are raging through our world. Surely bad times for peasants and traders.

 

[TheBirdMan]

War with England - continued.

Spoiler Counterattack and peace :

 

[globosud]

an idea that I think would be excellent, to set a maximum limit of colonists that can be produced for each nation

in relation to the size of the map , but I've never succeeded,

 

[TheBirdMan]

an idea that I think would be excellent, to set a maximum limit of colonists that can be produced for each nation

in relation to the size of the map , but I've never succeeded,

My skills are somewhat "limited" to features, that can be done in XML. And I have not - yet - seen anything, that could make this possible.

But I use my rule of thumb. Never more than approx. 4.000-4,500 landtiles on any round maps and no more than 5.000-5.500 landtiles on any flat map. Unless you use my special settings, that requires water near a city (see page 1, 2nd post in this thread) together with a longer distance between cities (4-5 tiles instead of the default 2). You simply have to limit the number of possible cities to something close to 200 in total if you want to be able to play a big long game to an end.

 

[Drakarska]

Interesting diplo interaction with the AI. Have you adjusted any of the peace weights? Or are they still standard?

 

[TheBirdMan]

Interesting diplo interaction with the AI. Have you adjusted any of the peace weights? Or are they still standard?

All standard.

All I do ajust with the leaders - if I do anything - are to change their religious pref (as I have added Orthodoxy as a fully working religion (except for a shine)), and I doesn't like to keep the Hunter_Gatherer trait for any leaders in my games as I also have "upgraded" several of the "primitive" civs in the "OtherCivs_Civ4CivilizationInfos.xml to fully working Civs, that can match any of the "original" civs in the game.

 

[globosud]

in this discussion I explain how to use the city limits https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/mod-component-requests-thread.174446/page-73#post-12159194

 

[ConquestCola]

I decided to check this thread out after is was recently linked to in the main R.I. thread. I have to admit the changes are interesting, but will there be increases in available resources on the map to compensate? I usually use large fractal maps, for reference.

I second the concerns mentioned earlier in the thread that the AI may not be able to successfully handle things. If you change things for fun for humans, it doesn't mean the AI has a clue what to do with it. This may mean more than changing XML to make the mod work properly.

Also, I am strongly against the removal of map trading. If the goal is to make things more "realistic", why remove an option that could realisitically take place? It just seems at odds with the intent of the other changes.

 

[ConquestCola]

Also, keep in mind that "realisitcally" a nation in real life could find ways to grow or generate many of the materials that are not ordinarily available in nature. Farming alone proves this, as crops could be cultivated in any appropriate climate. Example: Food crops, hemp, even animals. I think that's why it is appropriate to allow the creation of units without certain in-game resources, for example naval units. The production bonuses provided in the current RI setup (3.6 as of now) are appropriate.

If anything, I recommend that rather than prohibiting some key units, increase the production cost dramatically if you must. Then, offer more significant production bonuses for having the specific in-game resources. I just find it ridiculous that a nation filled with forests would be unable to cobble together a working naval unit because they lacked prime timber, for example. Maybe it would be harder to produce, but it shouldn't be impossible. This would also help the AI deal with the situation, and make it far less frustrating for players.

Civilization is a game, not a fully-accurate simulation. I appreciate the spirit of the attempt to make the game more realistic, which is why I like RI so much. I think some of the changes you mentioned, especially with naval units, would make the game almost unplayable due to the limits of the current economic simulation the game provides. And rewriting the economics of the game is something that I assume is impossible by way of a mod. It would be better suited for a brand new game.

 

[TheBirdMan]

but will there be increases in available resources on the map to compensate?

No. Actually I'm trying to do the opposite. Resources must not be found in abundance - they must be attractive - worth capturing - and necessary for the economy.

If you change things for fun for humans, it doesn't mean the AI has a clue what to do with it.

I know - this isn't my first attempt......

I have some pointers: Is it going me "too well to be acceptable"? Is the AI producing what it should? Spreads - grows - makes use of the buildings that supply the "new" bonus/resources - do it make use of the military buildings that give exp to its troops - so I have trouble "surviving"..... If the answer is "Yes" at least upto somewhere in the Renaissance Era, then the AI "understands" the changes sufficiently.....

Also, I am strongly against the removal of map trading

You are allowed to be so.

However, I don't think there has ever been an overwhelming desire to share maps with potential competitors - at least not entire maps of one's own country - or for that matter the path to lucrative markets "far away from home".
In my personal version, the only way forward is "hard work". Both "I" and the AI must use whatever is available - ships, explorers, scouts, spies and/or regular troops. There is no and there should be no "easy fix for everything".

Other than that, my experience from the "old days" is, that the more you can see of the "map", the slower the game becomes......

I just find it ridiculous that a nation filled with forests would be unable to cobble together a working naval unit because they lacked prime timber, for example

All my maps are "handmade" - they often take 2 weeks to complete*). All nations will recieve 2 PrimeTimber, 2 Wheat, 2 Limestone, 1 Iron and 1 Copper tile within reasonable distance from their starting location. What happens later in the game.... well it's not unfair that you can't make a ShipOfTheLine if you only have some small cities without the needed resources such as planks (naval supplies) because you lack the needed quality of trees (PrimeTimber) yourself and nobody wants to sell it to you - or you do not have the needed shipbuilding-facilities such as Harbor and Shipyard. But still - you are able to make galley/triremes without ressources or buildings........


*) Edit:
I forgot to add, that my master-maps (now) are saved in WorldBuilder format, which enables me to load the maps as scenarios. In this case I'm able to choose anyone of the 18 civs I have placed. Only thing I have to choose is the difficulty level I'm using myself (monarch, default for all nations in the master-map is noble). So partly I'm able to test all nations and compare with results of earlier games, partly I don't feel 14 days for a map is overkill.

 

[TheBirdMan]

I think and hope this will be my last test-game.

Many-many changes have been made up-to-and-including the Rennaissance Era. I haven't made many changes for the last 2 Eras, but I have "found room" for a few... But more on this, when the test game gets here in terms of time.
Since this hopefully will be the last testgame, I will allow myself to make serious map-changes in case the game reach its memorylimits - or make other serious "interventions" if - for one or another reason - the game freezes or quits without I'm able to fix the problem. Only problem I will not try to solve is, if the AI defeats me.

This time I will do my best to provide a screenshot when-ever I think this could become interesting to any "followers".

So let the game start.

 

[TheBirdMan]

The game is made as a scenario, flat map size 180*160 tiles - 28.800 tiles of which 9.377 tiles are land or fresh lakes.

The crude map is made with the SmartMap_mst.py and 1 civ. The final map is based on this and re-worked with the WorldBuilder for days and days until I was more-or-less satisfied with the result. This "result" has then been changed again and again during my tests - where I always have used another leader when-ever I did restart the game - So now I'd argue, that all 18 starting nations have a reasonable "physical" base to start with - there aren't any really "weak" nations in this game.

Spoiler Here we go :

All nations starts with 1 scout, 2 archers and 1 settler. This is because of the babarians - I do not want them to "spoil" the game by defeating any nations - at least not the first 100-200 turns.......

 

[TheBirdMan]

My core is established - and 2 "friendly" neighbors have already paid a courtesy visit....

Spoiler Home - sweet Home :

 

[TheBirdMan]

To navigate through the Tech-tree is a task of it's own. Even for me, though I have planned and ajusted the changes myself....

I have reduced the time it takes to learn new skills for the AncientEra by reducing the <iCost>xxx</iCost> value for many ancient techs quite a bit. Besides a few techs from the Classical Era are moved to the Ancient Era - simply because I think those techs should be "known" earlier than the RI-mod have it.

Spoiler Some important examples :

Mining gives access to slavery. Slavery has been used thousands of years before our time - therefore this technology had to be moved to sometime before the year 2.000 BC. At least, that how I see it.

Besides my favourite statement "Water sustain all", I think religion is much more important in the early stage of the civilizations, than we have it in the original game, expansion and mod. I have made it so, that all religions need to know about Priesthood. But priesthood depends on old rituals, that origins from the oldest Storytellings and Mysticism. Again - that just an idea, that I can't forget - therefore I have implemented in my spinn-off.


Edit: Ups-sa-dasse...... I better find some more suitable places for CasteSystem (in Ritual) and for CivilReligion (in Priesthood) before I continue this game.....