Railroads
- Thread starter Koshling
- Start date
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
If its going to be Iron then it should be Iron Wares and not Iron Ore or Iron Ingots.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Why not Ingots? Pig Iron (ingot/block) is extruded to make rails.
JosEPh
JosEPh
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
You just explained why. The rails are the processed form of the ingot. Meaning the extruding part. Thus an Iron Rail falls under the Iron Wares category.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@Hydromancerx, oh come on. Why can't we have useless resources? I waiting so long for popped balloons and full of holes buckets. Are you going to say, you will not add them? 
And seriously, I said to read about wrought iron, as there could be something about the process of making rails, so you could say was it more like a special kind of ingot or wares.
Btw, you focused me on that wrought iron and I think it would be a good technology. And the technology together with iron ingot or wares could be prerequirement for other things, like railroads.
And seriously, I said to read about wrought iron, as there could be something about the process of making rails, so you could say was it more like a special kind of ingot or wares.
Btw, you focused me on that wrought iron and I think it would be a good technology. And the technology together with iron ingot or wares could be prerequirement for other things, like railroads.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
While this may be true, the process was done at the smelter/foundry so (splitting hairs here) could go under Ingots and One Less building to build to enable railroad, especially the 1st railroad.
Main point though is get rialroad off of steel.
JosEPh
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
How about this? We just have like a rail maker building that can have all the requirements and produce a rail resource?
Taxman66
King
I'd agree that rail should just use iron, and then when steel becomes available a bonus (perhaps movement increase?) could be applied representing more modern/better rails and trains.
Il Principe
Prince
The distinction between iron and iron wares is academic by the time you get railroads. When you reach railroads in the tech tree you usually got both iron and iron wares for about 1 or 2 millenia 
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I suppose a Forge is not enough so something like this, a rail casting facility, would've been necessary at first. Good 'nuff.
We had steel back in the middle ages... what we didn't have was the perfect alloys we have today. Maybe we should have an earlier steel... I dunno we'd have to research it a bit. But the rail resource and a building to produce it from Iron Ingots, and Coal, would be meaningful prereqs.
Along the same discussion lines, my wife was trying to get Iron Frigates in her game last night and had to follow quite the rabbit trail to get refined oil. Kinda ridiculous it REQUIRES power (surely we had some burn based refineries prior to the wide spread use of electricity - the refining tech comes way ahead of electricity for a reason), which really gets silly because obtaining power somehow requires Representative Democracy, Journalism, and a host of other wacked out prereqs that don't seem to make any sense as leading up to Electricity. Then when you DO get to electricity you then get access to 3 or 4 types of power plants at once.
A little on Power Plants: Coal was all we used for the longest time. Shale was used because Japan had no access to direct sources of coal but did have shale instead (so the prereq of having coal to have shale flies in the face of the whole point of using shale for a power plant.) Not sure about Oil plants but Hydroelectricity wasn't invented and put to use until much later.
Point being that the way prereqs fall throughout the Industrial era makes you feel like a dog chasing his tail. This Railroads issue highlights only the FIRST problem of its kind during the passage through this era. Someone with some historical and industrial knowledge REALLY needs to help us smooth this out!
Faustmouse
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2012
- Messages
- 3,524
I always forget to complain about that: The Steampunk Dynamos should NOT require electricity. They are a PUNK building. If you want to do it strictly, then the Zusa Computer should require Computers, the Glockwork Golem should require Robots and the Clockpunk Aire (?) should require Flight.
I what would really add more realism here was quantification of resources and Power. What happened to the 1D-Property System? This would have worked perfectly for resource quantification. And Hydro wanted to add an Electricity Property once.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
We anxiously await the eventual (hopefully) return of AIAndy. This is one of his proposals.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
With Iron to Steel, I always assumed the Forge used the Bloom method to extract the iron then the Foundry used the Blast method to refine it.
The industrial Blast method used water power to pump bellows. Then Steam Power. Then a pump replaced the bellows and finally electricity was used to drive the pump. At the same time how you managed the mix was also evolving with the Crucible furnace being the major change in technique.
All this is outside my area of historical interest. It is just bits I have picked up over the years reinforced by a couple of episodes of Time Team (UK) on the topic.
The industrial Blast method used water power to pump bellows. Then Steam Power. Then a pump replaced the bellows and finally electricity was used to drive the pump. At the same time how you managed the mix was also evolving with the Crucible furnace being the major change in technique.
All this is outside my area of historical interest. It is just bits I have picked up over the years reinforced by a couple of episodes of Time Team (UK) on the topic.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
That's why there is a Hydroelectricity tech. Note that when Vokarya redid the tech tree he looked up dates and tried to get them close to realistic dates and orders. That's why Railroads tech is before Steel tech. Which is how this problem got started.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Well... I guess the problem is that Hydro Plants are available as soon as you get Electricity.
I know how it all got started... just saying it needs some prereqs cleanup after we've moved things around here.
I had 2 semesters of material science in college...
Technically, any alloy of Iron and Carbon is called steel. This includes all "Iron" instruments, since the process of smelting replaces oxygen in iron ore with carbon, therefore you will have problems finding chemically pure iron outside a lab.
Then there are the great many types of steel (before we get into additional alloys). You have various percentages of carbon (up to ~6.7%, after that you just get solid carbon deposits), the temperature the mixture was brought to, the cooling process used (speed, cooling medium, etc...). There are many thick books on the subject.
Anyway, for game purposes, Wikipedia probably has all the info you need.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ferrous_metallurgy
Do you have any specific questions?
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