RAND 1.76 Balancing and Suggestions

Maybe I got an idea for you Affo.
I play AND a lot with friends in multiplayer and it often gets me stupid of founding religions.
I mean a player who founded 2-3 religions has a massive bonus upon other players with just one religion maybe you could deny founding another religion after the first religion was found by one player...
 
Maybe I got an idea for you Affo.
I play AND a lot with friends in multiplayer and it often gets me stupid of founding religions.
I mean a player who founded 2-3 religions has a massive bonus upon other players with just one religion maybe you could deny founding another religion after the first religion was found by one player...

No No NO!!!
I LOVE multiple religions...

Why change this? If I recall correctly there is an option to turn that off anyway..
 
Maybe I got an idea for you Affo.
I play AND a lot with friends in multiplayer and it often gets me stupid of founding religions.
I mean a player who founded 2-3 religions has a massive bonus upon other players with just one religion maybe you could deny founding another religion after the first religion was found by one player...

The "Limited Religions" option is supposed to do just this. Some people have reported bugs with it and I don't know if it has been fixed in AND.
 
Yea I know maybe I wrote a little weird.
I meant 1 Civ = 1 Religion that could be found.
So if I found Buddhism there is no option for me to found Christianity e.g.
 
Yea I know maybe I wrote a little weird.
I meant 1 Civ = 1 Religion that could be found.
So if I found Buddhism there is no option for me to found Christianity e.g.

what you wrote was perfectly clear.

The Limited Religions option should do just that.

in any case I think the majority of people like multiple religions, so why change it if there is an option that covers that???
 
yes you're right I was just blinded by the light.
Anyway its a good feature... but sometimes I think its a little out of balance by civs getting massive boosts by multiple foundations of religions.
 
In AND the tile yields are usually greatly boosted. I feel that specialists are a bit underwheleming. I know they produce GPs which are powerful but still if we look at it they eat food & produce a lot less yield. I think slight boost to them would be nice. Afterall you are not able to assign many engineers in early game for example due to limited slots. Every specialist can have an additional hammer,science,gold would be nice. Slaves, spies & artists are fine though.
 
Actually, has anyone really ever found any use for Chariots? Because Spearmen are a resourceless unit, and come so early on, they are almost entirely negated. Yes they still work against axemen, but just one spear in a mini stack stops them dead.

I've almost never seen the ai use them, and never build them myself. In fact, I've not really found much use for any of the Horse mounted units, right up until Horse Archers and Light Cavalry, when they become somewhat useful.

In the vast majority of games, I'll often ignore the "horse tech line" entirely, and then when it's quick to research stirrup, research them all one after another. This doesn't seem right to me, given the horses' dominance in warfare. I haven't any simple suggestions I'm afraid.
Same here.

In my point of view, spearmen and its derivatives should all give a boost on defence. I forgot how they are in AND, but everyplace else they're praticaly useless...

Have you ever saw those movies, where the swordmen infantry rushes torwards a wall of shielded spearmen, only to be pierced by the majority of it?
Plus a very wide used infantry for defence in the middle ages were the pikemen.
 
I think the -1 :food: for Slaves is too harsh early in the game. Slaves should be used a lot when you have the Slavery-Civic, but i also think not without a penalty.

Maybe instead -1 :food: they should give -1 or -2 :culture: . And with Feudalism an extra +1 :food: Bonus.
 
In AND the tile yields are usually greatly boosted. I feel that specialists are a bit underwheleming. I know they produce GPs which are powerful but still if we look at it they eat food & produce a lot less yield. I think slight boost to them would be nice. Afterall you are not able to assign many engineers in early game for example due to limited slots. Every specialist can have an additional hammer,science,gold would be nice. Slaves, spies & artists are fine though.

Not anymore, or as much. Most of the civic yield bonuses are gone as of 1.76 Beta 1.
 
I think the -1 :food: for Slaves is too harsh early in the game. Slaves should be used a lot when you have the Slavery-Civic, but i also think not without a penalty.

Maybe instead -1 :food: they should give -1 or -2 :culture: . And with Feudalism an extra +1 :food: Bonus.

I'm Considering adding +.5 angry face instead.
 
Same here.

In my point of view, spearmen and its derivatives should all give a boost on defence. I forgot how they are in AND, but everyplace else they're praticaly useless...

Have you ever saw those movies, where the swordmen infantry rushes torwards a wall of shielded spearmen, only to be pierced by the majority of it?
Plus a very wide used infantry for defence in the middle ages were the pikemen.

Good idea!
 
Has anyone else experienced that in the mid-to-late game with the 'Fixed Cultural Borders' option on, culture becomes rather negligible in effect? I know it's still good for stealing land from AI civs without a Fixed Borders civic active, and presumably good for staving off revolutions by having a lot of culture in a city.

Still, though, it seems like once the initial land/resource-grabbing phase is over, there's little reason to build culture buildings unless I get lucky and my neighbor runs without fixed borders for an extended period of time, or if I'm going for a cultural victory.

I know, I could just play without fixed borders on, but I really like the idea because I think it's more realistic in the modern ages. Is there any way we could create some sort of different advantage to pumping a lot of my civ's culture into a neighboring civ with fixed borders, so culture buildings seem less situational in fixed borders games?

Off the top of my head, maybe some kind of trade route bonus (in peace time) from increased tourism?

Other ideas/possibilities: Happiness penalty in affected cities if war breaks out between the nations (maybe only if my neighbor makes the DOW?); the people in those cities are impressed by my culture and don't want to be at war with me.

Alternatively, an effective reduction of affected cities' cultural defense if I am attacking them; there's a lot of popular sentiment in those cities for becoming part of my civ. Of course... if I raze that city instead of keeping it, it wouldn't be too realistic for the other cities to keep welcoming my soldiers. So that might be a problem.
 
Same here.

In my point of view, spearmen and its derivatives should all give a boost on defence. I forgot how they are in AND, but everyplace else they're praticaly useless...

Have you ever saw those movies, where the swordmen infantry rushes torwards a wall of shielded spearmen, only to be pierced by the majority of it?
Plus a very wide used infantry for defence in the middle ages were the pikemen.

The problem with movies is that they aren't too accurate.
Of course spearmen were a good defensive unit against cavalry and lightly armoured infantry. But against trained swordsmen they are not much use.
In the antique world the highly organized macedonian style phalanx was not only outmaneuverd by the Roman legions, the legionaries just simply cut off the spear tips, and cut themselves through the wall spears like a buzzsaw...

In the (late) middle ages, pikemen were in high use, but mainly because of their cost-effectiveness ratio. Later troops (like the Landsknecht Infantery, unlike in civ) armed with heavy swords specialised in cutting down the walls of pikes...
The main purpose of spear infantery was to stop cavalry, which was a very powerful force on the battlefield. But against other meele infantery or archers spearmen just were NOT effective, especcially used defensively.
I will gladly provide sources if necessary.


In conclusion: If the overall value of mounted units increases, spearmen automatically also gain value.

Instead of making spearmen and pikemen stronger defensively (which would be historically very inaccurate) I would strongly reccomend the following changes.

Spearman:
5 strengh
+ 75% vs. mounted units - 25% vs. archers

Pikeman:
7 Strengh
+150% vs. mounted units - 25% vs. archers -10% meele units - 25% vs. gunpowder units
Technology: Military Training!!!

Heavy Pikeman:
11 Strengh
+150% vs. mounted units - 25% vs. archers - 10% meele units - 25% vs. gunpowder units


Apart from the commando bonus it would be extremely important - for reasons of realism - to rebalance mounted units in general, especcially with considerations of terrain.

I would suggest to give all mounted units:

+20% Grassland, Desert, Plains Attack - 20% Forest, Jungle, Marshes Attack. This would be very important. Cavalry had severe limitations in unsuitable terrain and urban combat, but was very hard to beat in the right terrain... there is a reason the horse became the weapon of choice for the peoples of the vast, steppe emires, and not of the city-dwelling peoples or jungle or forest cultures...

+ 25% vs. archers (NOT longbowman or crossbowman) +25% vs light swordman - 25% city attack to represent the effect they had on battle. Formations of unfortified archers or light infantery, in the wrong terrain were simply torn apart by cavalry. This changed when ranged units became more formidable with the invention of the crossbow and/or longbow.


So Affo:

- Please make mounted units stronger/weaker - according terrain
- And consider my suggestions regarding spearmen and pikemen

these suggestions should strongly increase realism and improve the quality of the game
 
The problem with movies is that they aren't too accurate.
Of course spearmen were a good defensive unit against cavalry and lightly armoured infantry. But against trained swordsmen they are not much use.
In the antique world the highly organized macedonian style phalanx was not only outmaneuverd by the Roman legions, the legionaries just simply cut off the spear tips, and cut themselves through the wall spears like a buzzsaw...

In the (late) middle ages, pikemen were in high use, but mainly because of their cost-effectiveness ratio. Later troops (like the Landsknecht Infantery, unlike in civ) armed with heavy swords specialised in cutting down the walls of pikes...
The main purpose of spear infantery was to stop cavalry, which was a very powerful force on the battlefield. But against other meele infantery or archers spearmen just were NOT effective.
I will gladly provide sources if necessary.
:agree:. Spears were not meant to fight well against swords. The units which were used to pierce armour were polearms like Halberds.
 
I'm Considering adding +.5 angry face instead.

That seems very good. And maybe you could change the slave-revolution-event to be affected by angry-faces and unhealthy. It seems unreal, that in a sick city a slave-revolution never happens, but in a big, healthy city you have a lot of slave revolutions.
 
yes you're right I was just blinded by the light.
Anyway its a good feature... but sometimes I think its a little out of balance by civs getting massive boosts by multiple foundations of religions.

I agree with you on the potential for overwhelming benefits from a big lead in religion founding, but I also don't like the draconian solution that limited religions provide. Multiple religions produce some instability I believe, and in real life (in most cultures anyway) tend to produce a degree of friction. I would say maybe the instability penalty should be increased a bit.

A more radical solution might be to re-engineer the founding mechanics for religions entirely. Perhaps as well as a triggering tech (which would become pre-req to founding its religion rather than the current auto-trigger) we could move to a great-person like system whereby you acquire points towards founding a religion from owning various religion techs, and possibly some buildings each turn. When you both own the pre-req tech and get enough points you get to found the relevant religion (assuming nobody else got there first). Founding your second religion would then cost more points than the first, the third more still, and so on. In this way we'd provide a negative feedback process and reduce the chances of one player dominating many religions.
 
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