Random Raves 49: Cats Can Have Little a Salami

[MaryKB]

I feel there's a certain level of "sour grapes" going on, like something that you're not willing/able to spend money on is "bad" so you can look down on people who do as a means of hiding from pain.

What kinds of things would you consider as excessive luxury? Drinking good wine? Wearing jewelry? Having a nice car? Taking vacations?

I feel an important thing to remember, is there's always someone below you too who thinks you're living in excess luxury. I don't feel it's good to judge someone just because s/he has more money than you and can afford things you cannot.

Didn't you read Pope Francis' encyclical about pancakes? He condemns the heathen practices of using non-maple syrups to ruin perfect creation. He went so far as to declare "Thou shalt only put maple syrup on your pancakes" as the official Eleventh Commandment.

 

[Farm Boy]

I'm sure there have indeed been plenty of sour grapes around gibbets erected by the posh over the centuries.

It's definitely not "looking down" though. That's not the right vibe. I'll think and try to come up with it better. It's not simply an aversion to wealth and quality. There's an indolence or parasitic aristocracy connotation that comes with "luxury."

 

[MaryKB]

What comes to my mind when someone says "luxury" is things you enjoy but are not necessary for your survival.

 

[EgonSpengler]

What does "posh" mean, exactly? My only frame of reference is "Posh Spice," but I don't think that's what you're talking about?

Something that is luxurious, pretentious or reminiscent of the upper classes.

What's wrong with luxury, or being "upper class"?

I can't speak with authority on the subject, but as I understand it, class in the UK is a little different from here in the US. "Posh Spice" was, I think, meant to be an archetype, if not a caricature, of a certain kind of British woman (as were the other Spice Girls). Accents imply a lot about social class. They used to here, too, but not as much anymore (these days, not many people in Boston talk the way Matt Damon and Ben Affleck did in Good Will Hunting, but if anyone did, I'd know not just where they were from, but that they were working-class). I heard Daniel Kaluuya on the radio the other day; I bet if I told a Brit that Kaluuya grew up in a council estate in Camden, they could do an imitation of his accent without ever having heard him speak in his native accent before.

 

[MaryKB]

That's a good point, thank you. I think it's easy to forget that over here we don't have a formal class system.

 

[Takhisis]

Didn't you read Pope Francis' encyclical about pancakes? He condemns the heathen practices of using non-maple syrups to ruin perfect creation. He went so far as to declare "Thou shalt only put maple syrup on your pancakes" as the official Eleventh Commandment.

‘Laganvm divinvm’? It does say, verbatim, ‘laganum cum dulcī lactis edēs’. This is really a matter of Biblical interpretation. It is widely though reluctantly accepted that the Arabs had something to do with inventing this dulce de leche thing. Milk was around in Biblical times. Arabs are Semites, just like all the Jews were and still are. Maples? How many maples are there in the Bible? Milk is actually mentioned in it. Do i have to spell this out for you, or what?

I feel there's a certain level of "sour grapes" going on, like something that you're not willing/able to spend money on is "bad" so you can look down on people who do as a means of hiding from pain.

What kinds of things would you consider as excessive luxury? Drinking good wine? Wearing jewelry? Having a nice car? Taking vacations?

I feel an important thing to remember, is there's always someone below you too who thinks you're living in excess luxury. I don't feel it's good to judge someone just because s/he has more money than you and can afford things you cannot.

What comes to my mind when someone says "luxury" is things you enjoy but are not necessary for your survival.

As I said, you're missing the British component. There were people with, say, a house with 50-100 rooms, a small army of servants and guards and gardeners and what-not, who would very much dictate what was ‘on’ and what was ‘off’. And people who just ‘made an investment’ and bought a few slaves in the Caribbean or shares in the EIC or whatever and lived off that, not working, while other had to work 16 hours a day in a factory or a coal mine.
They spoke differently, dressed differently, ate differently, lived differently. There was ‘our sort’ and ‘not our sort’. There was ‘proper’.
Eventually there was centuries-long effort to eradicate the accents and dialects and languages of those who didn't speak like the elite. Children were physically punished for not speaking properly, there was and still is a social stigma attached to not speaking ‘the Queen's English’, to the point that the older generation in my family (~60 years old) are actually proud of the fact that I can fake an RP accent quite well if needed.

Since you're in the US, the closest you get to the UK's class system is the relationship between the culture of (former) black slaves in the US and WASP USians.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Another class artifact: Sports. I've met English and French who are fans of either soccer/football or rugby, but not both. Rugby is the public school sport. And, for reasons I don't understand, "public" school in the UK is what we call "private" school here. Soccer/football is the working-class sport most places [edit: not sure about Wales, S. Africa & New Zealand, come to think of it - I think rugby's a bigger sport than 'footie' in those countries].

 

[Takhisis]

for reasons I don't understand, "public" school in the UK is what we call "private" school here

As Wikipedia says:

The 'public' name refers to the schools' origins as schools open to any public citizen who could afford to pay the fees; they are not funded from public taxes.
(…)
Public schools emerged from charity schools established to educate poor scholars—public because access to them was not restricted on the basis of religion, occupation, or home location, and that they were subject to public management or control, in contrast to private schools which were run for the personal profit of the proprietors. The origins of schools in the UK were primarily religious until 1640, when House of Commons invited Comenius to England to establish and participate in an agency for the promotion of learning. It was intended that by-products of this would be the publication of 'universal' books and the setting up of schools for boys and girls.

Soon after the Clarendon Commission reported in 1864, the Public Schools Act 1868 gave the following seven schools independence from direct jurisdiction or responsibility of the Crown, the established church, or the government: Charterhouse, Eton College, Harrow School, Rugby School, Shrewsbury School, Westminster School, and Winchester College. Henceforth each of these schools was to be managed by a board of governors. The following year, the headmaster of Uppingham School invited sixty to seventy of his fellow headmasters to form what became the Headmasters' Conference – later the Headmasters' and Headmistresses' Conference. Separate preparatory (or "prep") schools developed from the 1830s, which "prepared" younger boys for entry to the senior schools; as a result the latter began limiting entry to boys who had reached 12 or 13 years of age.

Until the late medieval period most schools were controlled by the church and had specific entrance criteria; others were restricted to the sons of members of guilds, trades or livery companies. From the 16th century onward, boys' boarding schools were founded or endowed for public use. Traditionally, most of these public schools were all-boys and full boarding. Some independent schools are particularly old, such as The King's School, Canterbury (founded 597), The King's School, Rochester (founded 604), St Peter's School, York (founded c. 627), Sherborne School (founded c. 710, refounded 1550 by Edward VI), Warwick School (c. 914), The King's School, Ely (c. 970) and St Albans School (948).​

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

There were people with, say, a house with 50-100 rooms,

How do they not get lost in those?

 

[Takhisis]

It's not that difficult. You are present in only one room at a time so you always know where you are.

 

[MaryKB]

Since you're in the US, the closest you get to the UK's class system is the relationship between the culture of (former) black slaves in the US and WASP Americans.

That makes the most sense to me, it's something that didn't translate well originally because I don't have that background like you say Thank you kindly for breaking things down, I have an idea now why some British people would feel negatively if that's what "posh" means.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Substitutes? This is an improvement rather than a mere substitute.

I had pancakes again today and with the same topping. Mary is objectively wrong.

@MaryKB is absolutely and objectively correct in this. The only permissible addition would be some butter.

 

[Synobun]

My contribution is that the style of pancake sold in most restaurants and diners is bad. The thickness can't be redeemed by any amount of syrup. Dutch/crepe pancakes are superior in all ways.

 

[MaryKB]

My contribution is that the style of pancake sold in most restaurants and diners is bad. The thickness can't be redeemed by any amount of syrup. Dutch/crepe pancakes are superior in all ways.

Crepes are not pancakes. They're lovely, but a totally different kind of food.

 

[Farm Boy]

@MaryKB is absolutely and objectively correct in this. The only permissible addition would be some butter.

If you're going full cliche, shouldn't you at least include a sprinkle of powdered sugar?

 

[Birdjaguar]

If you're going full cliche, shouldn't you at least include a sprinkle of powdered sugar?

As a decoration, it works.

 

[Farm Boy]

Oh my. In my search for things to taunt Bird with, I'm going to have to consider a goodness I never considered but just stumbled across. Sauerkraut pancakes!

 

[Birdjaguar]

Oh my. In my search for things to taunt Bird with, I'm going to have to consider a goodness I never considered but just stumbled across. Sauerkraut pancakes!

The real thing is simpler and better.

 

[Farm Boy]

Probably, but still do want!

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Sauerkraut pancakes!

That sounds vaguely nauseating.