allhailIndia
Deity
What about Esperanto??
I thought that was touted as a pan-European language.
I thought that was touted as a pan-European language.
Random thoughts about Europe and the World at large.
- Thread starter onejayhawk
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Thadlerian
Dreamin' of a RED X-mas!
Esperanto is a very nice language indeed, the problem is that noone's willing to do the effort teaching it to large groups.
test_specimen
hope lost
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I don't think language will be that much of a problem, at least if the EU sticks to a policiy using some (i.e. English, French, German and perhaps Spanish or Italian or Polish) most of the time while using translators for anyone who can't speak them. As for the parliamentaries and members of the bureaucracy I don't think that you're asking a lot if they have to speak at least three languages. Perhaps not German, since it is really difficult to learn it, but English and French should be possible. If they are not capable of learning those languages they might consider another job.
Most people don't want to leave their country (except for holiday)anyway, so why should they be required to learn other languages? If you want the possibility to work in another country you wont get around it anyway.
If you "fail to see how this language can be anything but English" you might consider that the German speaking group is the largest in Europe. I know that the British have a hard time when they have to be different from the US, but having several languages in a country is no obstacle. (It might cheer you up that the US also have several languages spoken within their borders, mostly Spanish.) The US system cannot be the ultimate goal for the EU. Both the evolvement and the participants of the EU are much too different.
MrPresident
Anglo-Saxon Liberal
You should only be allowed to represent your countrymen in a European Parliament if you can speak at least two languages fluently? What about the principle of allowing anyone regardless of education, wealth or whatever the hell else the chance to represent the people if the people want them? What about the inner-city slums? How many of their inhabitents do you think speak two languages fluently? If Europe has one currency it should have one language. People need to be able to move and live anywhere in Europe and language is, perhaps, the greatest barrier to that at the moment. Only Germans and the criminally insane speak German.
It is a huge obstacle in the communication area.
How many languages are spoken in Congress? I am not saying we should outlaw every language in Europe, except English. I am saying that English should be introduced as the offical language of the European Union so that everyone can communicate with everyone else with a damn translator. This may take some time so we might as well start sooner rather than later.
test_specimen
hope lost
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Since I am Austrian I take this as an insult. But a lot of people on these forums resort to the "Ignorance is Strength" maxime from "1984" lately. The inability to learn foreign languages is nothing to be proud of.
I doubt that a lot of members of the current EU parliament come from lower class. And even if they do, social system in Europe should provide them with equal chances to learn foreign languages. If you want this job, you have to do something for it. You can't just lower expectations so a lot of people can work for the parliament.
The same argument you used would also be against having English as an official language; everyone would have to learn English to be able to understand the laws and to gain access to rights. For discussion in parliament this would perhaps work, but then the only ones without knowledge of foreign languages would come from the UK.
MrPresident
Anglo-Saxon Liberal
And neither is it something someone should be punished for.
I would say a sizeable proportion do.
Why? What is the purpose of speaking a foreign language if we all spoke English?
Get elected.
The only expectation for working in Parliament should be whether you were elected by the people. Nothing else matters.
If you are a resident of England you are expected to learn English. If you are a resident of Europe you should be expected to learn a single European language, English is probably the best candidate for that. What is wrong with that?
test_specimen
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If English was the official language, election alone would not be enough for most Europeans. They would have to learn English. If they have to learn one language anyway, why stop there?
The purpose of speaking a foreign language is to understand others. "If we all spoke English": you said yourself that it would only be the official language.
If you don't consider your fellow countrymen smart enough to learn another language you are maybe underestimating them. Perhaps if you learned another language you would also know more about the other members of the EU.
Sure, you should not be punished for not knowing another language. But in some situation it just helps. Why should anyone be forced to take maths at school? Or biology? Education is not your enemy. Anyway you would not be forced to learn another language, it just depends on your choice of job. If you want to become elected for EU parliament you just have to learn some languages. Just like you have to get a drivers licence to be a bus driver. Or is it unfair to exclude those who can't drive from this job?
MrPresident
Anglo-Saxon Liberal
No one ever went bankrupt underestimating the intelligence of the British public, especially no one named Rupert.
Indeed you most probably would. I have no problem with people learning another language, I encourage it. However it should not be a requirement to speak several languages fluently to represent your countrymen in the European Parliament.
Thanks for pointing that one out. I was a bit confused for a minute there. I must re-direct the nuclear weapons.
Should we exclude the mute from being elected to the EU Parliament? They can't speak any language after all.
test_specimen
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As far as I know sign language has become rather popular among them. The mutes you mean are monks who don't speak because they chose to. And I'm not sure whether they are in the parliament yet.
Still there has been no valid argument, why this language should be English. Could be French as well or even Russian (most Eastern countries had Russian taught at their schools).
smalltalk
monkey business
This will not happen in our life time. France takes some effort to keep their language free of foreign words, so they won't shift into full backwards gear soon.
Always wanted to ask Curt, where he got his german phrases from. I do it herewith. Care to answer, please?
Anyway, test_specimen was not refering to sanity, but to sheer numbers. So I reraise his question: why shouldn't the most widely spoken language be at least considered?
Oh, I fear it will be. You know how many problems the EU has to speak in one voice... The only outcome I can see is a lot of beaurocracy, an army of translators _producing each paper in 24 languages.
English comes easy to me, because it almost has no declinations. And in our hemisphere it's the common language for science and a lot of other things anyway. But I doubt I'd master the trap-doors of diplomatic jargon. (Sometimes those folks are argueing about phrasing for whole days - just to say nothing in the end.)
Otherwise, Italian, Spanish and Portugese, even French have a lot in common. It's not too hard to switch from one language to another. Even I can come up with a view buzzwords from each. I might be able to find out what a newspaper article in these languages is about. But I can't decipher eastern languages. What a pity.
Maybe in the course of the time, we devolop a european creole speak, but this will take a few generations. If you want to speed it up, marry abroad!
MrPresident
Anglo-Saxon Liberal
English is the world's most spoken language in the world. It is the language of business, computers, internet and whatever the hell you like. It is the closest thing we have to a universal language.
The argument for English as the common European language carries a lot more weight than any claim for German as English is unarguably the international language. It is used as the common language for air traffic control, the internet (chiefly) and a whole range of other services that require cross national understanding. If Europe started being represented in German then woohoo youve just ensured that most of the rest of the world cant understand a word Europe says.
As for this multilingual argument, you also have to include the language such as the Eastern European languages and the rest, basically you get what we have now which is confusion and babble.
Re Esparanto incidentally, my translator g/f says its a ***** to try and learn, apparently it does not follow normal linguistic rulings and is basically horrible.
As for this multilingual argument, you also have to include the language such as the Eastern European languages and the rest, basically you get what we have now which is confusion and babble.
Re Esparanto incidentally, my translator g/f says its a ***** to try and learn, apparently it does not follow normal linguistic rulings and is basically horrible.
test_specimen
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Sure, in some areas it is the most widely spoken language. But not in Europe. Even if it is important for business, internet, science German is still the language spoken by most people in everyday life. You don't want to introduce a world language, you want to introduce one for Europe.
Also I think on a global scale, that more people speak Chinese and the amount Spanish speakers is close to English speakers.
@smalltalk: If Europe used three to four official languages the problems would become less. Also there would have to be less translations. But it is important that those who decide on the issues understand them, and if they can choose from a range of languages they will be better informed than by just having a single language which everyone has to accept. I too have no idea how slavic languages work, for me English, French, Spanish, German are much easier to learn. But the same might be true for the opposite.
test_specimen
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So what you say is, that any country not having English as official language is not understood by the rest of the world? Maybe you should stick this to Chirac, this should solve a lot.
I might just do that. 
No I didnt make that claim incidentally, my point is that a super-national entity such the European Union speaks on a comparable level to the US, Russia etc. As English is the widely accepted international language many people from throughout the world have learned to speak it to facillitate international business. To suddenly pick a completely different language to represent the continent makes roughly no sense and would just cause mass confusion.
No I didnt make that claim incidentally, my point is that a super-national entity such the European Union speaks on a comparable level to the US, Russia etc. As English is the widely accepted international language many people from throughout the world have learned to speak it to facillitate international business. To suddenly pick a completely different language to represent the continent makes roughly no sense and would just cause mass confusion.
smalltalk
monkey business
True, your are right, if and only if...
This topic has been discussed by officials for several years now - without result. I don't see no progress made. Rather things will become worse with the new members.
And why not choose just one language? Might simplify things a lot.
Of course I'd prefer English, I know it already. Why not use it as a concession to our English friends, as a bait to pull them closer to Europe?
Let's face it: the EU is an economic and a monetary union. It consists of nations loosely tied together by their history but it is far from a politic union.
What do we want it to be?
Yago
came undone
the EU is an economic and a monetary union. And represent the common interest of the European continent versus the rest of the world. You know, those big states like China and India, with billion-population. I don't see them being very happy to be bothered with making treaties with approx. 20 nations.
I DON'T think about:
A. giving up my political rights.
B. giving up my culture, giving up my language, noooo waaayyy.
C. giving the British any kind of influence over domestic politics.
MrPresident
Anglo-Saxon Liberal
The EU is also a political union, how else do you explain the European Parliament?
Yago
came undone
It's for the lawmaking in the cases of trade. The most important thing is trade. The most important laws are trade-laws. The point is, as I want to by from the French, Italians and Germans, I want some good trade laws. And big companies are stretched over several countries, so the laws concerning them have to involve several countries. Not doing so would just create too much useless legal fuss.
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