RB15: Taking The Long View

(I reckon we should) Take the peace treaty. Mansa's smashed to pieces, but we're suffering badly, and need time to rebuild while we research tanks (due, I believe, immediately after Radio). We have time enough before he gets close to *actually* launching, we can kill him then. Meanwhile we have other things to do.

That's a lot of money we can use for research and/or upgrades, too. Take it while it's there.

Once again, beautiful turns, Jabah. They give me renewed hope for actually winning this thing. I only hope I can keep up the standard as it comes round.

Garath
 
We should try to plan to go after Egypt and Germany at some point, or at least get more points than they have.

Amphibious cannons assault were quite effective, even against city defender3 infantry, of course, the first 4 were usually doing not a lot of damage except collateral. We probably needed 3x the defenders to be sure.

Also, we have to keep a good watch on ennemy transport, if Mansa had managed to land his 8 "gunship/artillery/tank" stack, it would have been very big troubles.

Regarding troops, I think the low production cities can still build a few more chariots for cheap MP to have some extra for futur high WW.

Most of the cannons are in Mansa land, but next "quick" victim should be Mao to finish him as it is quite annoying to have our borders cities there on permanent rebelion.

Jabah
 
1955AD- 95 Turns left. We are about 300 points off of the lead. I take a loook through all the cities and like the builds. I decide to make peace with Mansa, the deal that Jabah advoated a bit more than 1300 gold. Radio due in 9, that should change though, lets see if I can set somone up to clean up Mao and hopefull get us some more points. We are really well set up to poach some Coastal sites of Mansa's, Sweeeeet for this points race we got here.

T1-Mansa now wants to trade spices for Wines, I figure why not? So I make the trade, I mean eh?

T2-New Orleans was founded last turn. Balitimore is not where I would have liked, but I figured found it, overlap and all, it is for the points anyway. I start Pentagon in DC, it will take 14 turns.

T3-Move lots of boats around.

T4-Zzzz

T5-I may get enough units together to take Nanjing? We will see.

T6- Positioning. Beijing and Macau are usless until we take Nanjing, they are always in revolt.

T7-So I dial up Mao, and demand that he gives us all of his cash in tribute, he does so like a good little boy, however instead of a pat on the head he shall get a :hammer: on the head. We redeclare war. Nanjing is on a F__king hill, okay, hmmm. We land and face a bit of an attack four cannons kill our machine gunner and one of our cannons. Our counter attack falls one unit short of taking the city, next turn it will be then.

IBT- Beijing falls. Damn It!! Okay, this problem will be easy to fix.

T8-Nanjing Falls Units wait and heal up. I bump up research to 100% at -350 gpt to get Rifling one turn early so I can start drafting Riflmen instead of musketmen.

T9- Rifling comes in, instead of Riflmen being drafted it is Infantry :crazyeye: tech order, the down side is that I am one pop. point shy in those north Chinese cities from being able to draft a Infantryman. We can now build Navy Seals, Tanks, Infantry all of the good stuff, Artillery in 5 turns. We lost the Pentagon, but Eiffel Tower will only take 11 turns that 50% culture boost in every town could help by bringing more land under our control and upping our score.

T10-Despite my loss of Beijing the situation is under control and the next player should be able to take it back realatively easily.
Gao comes out of revolt finally 10 turns, and immediatly gets a whipped library for the culture. We can build tanks, but boy do they take awhile as much as 15 turns. Despite the set back of the Beijing loss, we are now about 120 points off of the leader instead of 300. Pithom near our colonies in Mansa land is city ripe for the picking to knock Hatty down. A city or two of Fred's and we are in the lead. Conversely getting Beijing back would also help :blush:

So here are the pics, the rifling pic didn't take. Um the one of that western Island with a transport next to it, try and get a settler on that transport so we can settle that island, more tiles under our control, more pop. under our control = more points. By the way I don't think that Mansa built a single part during my 10 turns.
 

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I'll see what I can make of this today and tomorrow, then I'm away from a week from Tuesday evening. On the other hand, as it is at the moment you'll probably appreciate the time to sit and play thoroughly, we're bound to be embroiled in another big war before long after all.

Garath
 
Ah, I'm really sorry, guys. Real Life has happened, I just haven't had a chance to even *look* at the save over the past two days, and now I'm going away until next Wednesday anyway.

If you guys want to get another round in in that time, feel free. Up to you, though.

Garath
 
My policy on the patch is that as soon as I get home I'm going to want to patch for private games and for Epic 2, so this game will be patched by that point one way or another.

I don't care whether or not you patch before you play your turns, personally. I suspect things get a little bit easier if you do due to the combat change part of the way back again, although not as much different as it would have been were we still using cannons.

Garath
 
I couldn't play this WE, so I suggest we go back to the "normal" order with Garath playing the next 10 turns.

Jabah
(I did patch on the other hand)
 
Sounds good, I'll be back at home later today. Not that that means I know when I'll actually be able to play, but at least the possibility will be there.

Garath
 
I will be away (in London) this WE from Friday morning to Sunday late. Either skip, swap or wait if it happens to be my turn.

Jabah
 
Time for the revival of this game, now under new (1.61) management! We shall soon see how different this has made things, I'm sure. It's been a long time since there was a turn in this game, but there's not long left. Let's finish it out!

Now, unfortunately, the game seems to have seen better days: The war declaration on China may have been a little premature. I was expecting that to happen once we had a few Tanks over there, rather than still in Atlas' turn, and the loss of Beijing is an unfortunate effect of this. Still, we do not have much time, so getting right along with things may yet easily have been the correct decision despite the mess. We shall see...

Either way, sheer travel time is going to mean that the war against China will not be finished before at least close to the end of my turns. I am forced to veto the Eiffel Tower, though. The only cities that need more culture aren't going to have enough for the percentage boost to culture to be worth more than the 3 or 4 tanks from Washington that building it would lose us.

Right now things look OK. But it's going to get frantic again, as soon as more Apollo Programs start being build. Our only recourse is to have plenty of Tanks available for when they do. On the plus side, we have *loads* of cash. We'll have Artillery in 4 turns, and when we do I shall upgrade the great majority of our Cannons immediately. *Hopefully*, with them and some Tanks we'll be able to take some stuff off Louis before the Apollo Programs come a-clamourin' again. We're going to need the score boost.

Turn 1 (1966):

Our 10-turn auto-peace treaty with Mansa runs out. I don't think we're in any great danger from him right now, though.

I send the healed cannons from Nanjing back towards Beijing again. There's also a small stack of Infantry closing off the isthmus, which will join up with them and provide the firepower to actually take the city, when they arrive in a couple of turns.

RB15returning.jpg


IT: Our stack is hit by a Cannon for precisely 10% damage to every cannon in it, and two knights appear.

Turn 2 (1967):

The two knights are easily killed. Mao turns out to have a surprisingly large presence left in Beijing, though, given how small his Empire has been for so long. Ah well, he'll still be going down, it just might take slightly longer.

RB15beijingagain.jpg


Turn 3 (1968):

More nothing, basically. However, from our current prespective, this is a good thing! Nay, a great thing! The longer we have before the space race gets going in earnest, the better.

Freddie offers Sheep for our Aluminium. Speeding him along the space race? I think NOT.

Washington builds our first Tank! Yay!

IT: WHERE is Mao getting all these units from? Yet more appear from the back side of nowhere, knocking out the cover off our stack of cannons and leaving it seriously exposed.

Turn 4 (1969):

I reduce the defences of Beijing to 6% with three Accurate Cannons, and knock out two of his FIVE Riflemen with a couple of Infantry. That's all I can do, though. I fear the worst for the stack of 5 cannons that remains.

IT: Mao does *not* counterattack! Yay!

Turn 5 (1970):

Some rather nice combat results, including a Cannon defeating a Rifleman at 10.5% (6xp!) and two retreats, lead to the effective neutralising of the Beijing garrison without the loss of a single unit! It's still not ours, though, and our stack is even more badly hurt now. Still, there are four Artillery on a transport outside the city, so one way or another it will fall next turn.

Turn 6 (1971):

RB15retaken.jpg


At last!

More troops are being shipped over for when Louis' time comes. Doubt that'll be on my turns, we need a half-dozen or so Tanks minimum, as well as the dozen+ Artillery that are already on hand. More Infantry would be of great value, too.

Everything is quiet on all other fronts, so there's currently no pressure. Mansa's still built nothing but the Casings and Thrusters, though we have no real idea where he is technologically.

Now that Artillery's in, though, we can see that Freddy, Alex and Hatty all do have Rocketry, so it's only a matter of production before they get their own Apollo Programs built. If there were some way of getting them to declare war on each other..; but I dream, without tech trading.

Turn 7: Nothing interesting.

Turn 8: Still nothing interesting.

Turn 9 (1974):

A Great Engineer is born in Seattle! I take a look at the military advisor, and find that we have no other Great People. I take a look at the F1 screen and note that no cities are due another Great Person in the immediate future, and that that one will be an Engineer too, and decide that once that is used for Rock and Roll, the Eiffel Tower will be of more use, since it'll also be +2 happy in every city from the modern happiness resources that we have. Rock and Roll due in 2.

Turn 10 (1975):

Rocketry -> Satellites. Now if someone else builds the Manhatten Project, we can build ICBMs! I also look around, and discover that only Mansa even has Satellites, which is good. Nobody else can possibly be in danger of launching any time soon.

For want of a single additional military unit, or Shanghai not being on a hill so the Tanks could blitz, I fail to capture it. By this much!

RB15shanghai.jpg


Blah. To Jabah falls finally wiping out the pink blight on the face of the world. Shanghai would be completely surrounded by France's culture. The only possible reason for keeping it would be if you want to declare war on France soon, and want a staging post from which our units will not get kicked out to do so from.

Afterthoughts:

I've left some of the destroyers around Louis's coast keeping an eye on things. Paris, particularly, has a lot of units in ships waiting to sail. I've been shipping tanks and other units across from the mainland as quickly as they appear, dropping them directly into Guangzhou or Xian has been efficient up until now, but you may want to take some cities directly from transports, in which case more stuff, such as building some Navy Seals (and wouldn't it be a shame to finish this game without using any) will need setting up first.

Most places are of course building Tanks, some of which are still the same ones they were building when I got the game. The obvious exceptions are the two wonders in production. Rock and Roll will finish next turn, since the Great Engineer wasn't quite enough, and Eiffel Tower a little later. Houston, slow and without a Barracks, is just building Chariots to be sent to wherever War Weariness is hitting hardest. That's about to go away again for a few more turns, of course, and we'll be getting +3 Happy per city too. The next war should be a lot easier than the last couple.

Don't declare war on Louis without enough forces to finish the job unless there's a Very Good Reason. On the other hand, we've got the capacity for at least a round dozen more tanks over the next turnset, which together with the forces already in positon has got to be more than enough. All the Cannons have already been upgraded, I think.

We're only 50 points behind the leaders at the moment, though, and only 75 turns left to hold things off for. Mansa has been wasting his time with Mass Media, too.

Garath
 
Garath

If you had to predict a launch date for the Hatty, Freddy, and MM what would you say from your feel of the game?

No Tech Trading and the Isolated starts that everybody greatly slowed down the tech pace, will the AI have the time to be able to tech to the last Spaceship part tech and then build it? We can hope.

Sorry about the rush to :hammer: China.

So Garath/Jabah I guess the question is do we focus on decreasing Freddy/Hatty's score (by attacking) or do we focus on increasing our score (by attacking Louis)?

-Atlas
 
I'm pretty certain none of Hatty/Alex/Freddy will be a threat until the closing couple of decades of the game at the earliest, though my gut feel says that one of them would launch before the end were we not to stop them. Therefore I prefer building up our own score to taking down theirs, at least in the short term. We'll be ready to take on Louis in 10-15 turns, no problem, by my reckoning.

Mansa, on the other hand, still has a bunch of tech lead that he built up before we hit him, and a few decent cities around still, and so will definitely be a launch threat again, well before the end of the game, even here on Prince. We'll need to hit him again, and this time we need to be able to finish it. There should be a couple decades before that starts to become interesting again, though, since he's definitely not got *all* the tech yet. Time enough to hit Louis first, especially if Mansa gets distracted building things like Manhatten and the UN, which he may do.

We can definitely put ourselves in a position to have the highest score, securely, long before the end of the game. The only real question remaining is whether we can stop the launches, which looks doable at the moment.

It's amazing how much my feelings about our ability to win this game have swung back and forth between turnsets. Right now, though, it looks good. The longer we get to wait before any more ship parts/Apollo Programs are built, the better it looks.

Garath
 
Garath said:
It's amazing how much my feelings about our ability to win this game have swung back and forth between turnsets. Right now, though, it looks good.

I could not agree more. When we started I figured we would get a regular continents draw from the random feature. You know something 1-3 opponenets on our home continent that we would quickly eradicate/assimilate and then through sheer size out tech everybody into the modern age and then finish the others off. That was how I saw this game progressing. Then I thought we were isolated and hence finished for good. Now I see everybody was isolated so we have a shot. Definate swings!!

-Atlas
 
Atlas* said:
I could not agree more. When we started I figured we would get a regular continents draw from the random feature. You know something 1-3 opponenets on our home continent that we would quickly eradicate/assimilate and then through sheer size out tech everybody into the modern age and then finish the others off. That was how I saw this game progressing. Then I thought we were isolated and hence finished for good. Now I see everybody was isolated so we have a shot. Definate swings!!

-Atlas

As a lurker, I couldn't agree more. This is an absolute roller coaster of a SG :)

Though, the real gem of the game is this:

Hmm. The borders at Xian have just expanded, bring this pasture inside them. This would appear to have given us access to pigs, checking the city screens and trade screens. We aren't trading for any, but our cities have access. It's taken long enough, but at last we have these animals! Not that we understand *how* they were brought under control, but it seems we can operate whatever the chinese left behind. Who knows.

Keep fighting, I think you can win! Until the pigs rise up, that is.
 
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