rbd23 - b

[Sirian]

(...cont from page 2)


90BC: Our ship in the south unloads its spearman onto the isle then attacks a barb galley... and LOSES! ...

OK, new directive: vet ships only from here out, plz. Build harbors.

70BC: Buy construction from that helpful lil Aztec fellow for 134 gold. Granary finished in Kyoto.

50BC: Pop the goody hut on Hilly Island, out jump hostile yokels.

30BC: Our spears on the Isle promote to elite.

In the north, our swords attack and raze Tbilisi (barely -- but after losing to a BARB SHIP in the south, I just could not believe our luck could be that bad, so I took the one-unit-attack gambit at Tbilisi. What they hey. "Are you feelin lucky today, punk?" Yep.)

10BC: Russian galley that has been wandering around up there my whole turn (same one dropped off the settler pair) comes back out from the Russian mainland. I -presume- it's carrying units, either a settler pair or an invasion force. Since this has been a gambit sort of game, and we lost our last naval fight (and took drubbings in the first two as well -- if not for bonuses vs barbs on less than Deity, might have lost all three!) I say we're due and what the Hell. Our ship attacks.

Cathy will now talk to us, and take peace on our terms -- but she has nothing to offer. (I guess I HAVE given her a bit of a drubbing here: a settler and worker captured, two reg spears defeated by same sword unit, one island colony town autorazed, and now this ship, possibly loaded, has been sunk).

10AD: Our damaged vet ship group makes port. Slaves formerly known as Citizens of Tbilisi are fortified on the tiny isle, awaiting passage to Japan for Road Duty.

50AD: Our repaired ship sets sail again, picks up the new slave group and ready to pick up the sword unit, too. Our other sword unit has FINALLY traversed the horseshoe of our continent and arrived in Edo, so we have another in the area. I suppose we could send the pair of them to attack that Russian fur outpost, or maybe we should wait to finish off Germany and gather all our forces, and build more ships and units, and Go In Force at a later point. That will be up to the next leader.

Oh, speaking of Germany...

"Hey Otto. Your time's up, pal-o-mine, buddy boy. What do you have to offer us for 20 more turns of peace? Oh? Nothing at all? Well then, this deal has been completed. Auf Weidersehn!"

Peace treaty honorably cancelled with Germany. Our elite archers snack on their regulars, and our Stack captures a worker in the mountains as we move next to Berlin with all our sword units.


Clock: BZZT! Time's up, Sirian! Out with you. Out out out.

Sirian: Aw. Well OK, so someone else gets to finish off Germany. I had that glorious naval victory over the Russians!


Suggestions:

* Capture Berlin, rather than raze, if the option is given.

* Please, please do not veto my courthouses! Tokyo needs to whip its courthouse once it has passed the halfway mark on shield accumulation (39 or less remaining to go), then its corruption will be reduced and it will be ready to megacrank the military forces. Satsuma is set to finish its courthouse on its own soon, and would be the ideal site for the Forbidden Palace. It can probably finish building it on its own in 40-50 turns, maybe less, or we can have it build troops and try for a leader to rush the FP.

* We do have construction. Depending on how much attacking of Russia you are of a mind to do, Kyoto could crank troops, or it could build aqueduct and start growing larger. Unfortunately, while it can mount ten shields, it is losing one to corruption, so still not up to the magic 10 number. As odd as it may sound, we need a courthouse in our capital to get rid of that one wasted shield IF WE STAY IN DESPOTISM so that's another possibility. (Once we move to Monarchy, that should fix itself, though, so I would skip the courthouse in favor of the aqueduct). Settlers are also a possibility, in between building units.

* Son of Frankfurt needs to whip its temple AFTER it finishes building walls and grows to size 2.

* Nara needs to whip a harbor, again after it grows to size 2 and finishes its barracks.

* To try to get more shields at Kyoto, I have moved a worker stack onto a mountain to mine and build a road. Our grasslands are all upgraded, so it was time.

* We have ongoing treaties with Aztecs and Zulus, so no war with them until those expire -- and even then, might be better to keep attacking Russia and keep trading with the others.

DOTMAPS:

We want to capture Berlin if we can, and also settle the purple dot, which is on the fresh lake, access to the coast, some grass in range, and closest "good" tile in the area to our capital (for less corruption).

We probably don't NEED to settle that south isle, but then again maybe we should, since its very hilly, and would be a nasty thing to have to conquer if the Zulus plop a buncha settlers down there. So... first order of business is to grab the horse and the iron, and White Dot is the location for that. Gets both in range, on the coast, and two grass in range, too, once the temple is online.

Other dots are best-use-of-land choices to fit with white dot.

RBD23B - 50AD Save File

Everybody's taking 10 turns per player from here on out, so your turn will always end on a year ending with 50 or 00, for the next 1700 years.

So far, so good! Much fun stuff coming up for this round of play. Having survived the early wars intact and won control of our sardine can, now the game is starting to get to the good parts.


- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

Oh one more thing:

(Infamous Sirian One More Thing post -- usually contains about six more things )

We're GOING TO have a bunch of hopelessly corrupt cities in this thing, one way or another. In my experience, the best thing to do with those is to build a temple, walls, a harbor in SOME cases, and uh... that's it. Put em on wealth and leave em sit there. Since we are religious, the temples will come easily, so that helps.

Also... since we have no fresh water in our main core, there's really not all that much being lost to despotism penalties. No way to irrigate grasslands. In this instance, there COULD BE a case made for staying in despotism. The question would be a matter of whether the extra corruption, and the lost food from our Kyoto wheat tile, and from any mined hills/mountains, would be worth keeping the option of whipping distant, corrupt colonies. I'm not sure which would be better at this point, to be honest, so what do the rest of you guys think? Keep in mind, every luxury we can bring online would allow one extra whipping at every distant and corrupt colony.


- Sirian

 

[Sullla]

I have the game, though I filled up over a full page in Microsoft Word listing Sirian's "suggestions." 10 turns it is, as I try to avoid getting the after a bad move.

 

[Sullla]

(0) 50AD After assessing the situation, I realize that I was preparing to do some things that Sirian suggests anyway (like mining a mountain near Kyoto). I guess that's a good sign for my playing ability. I only change one thing: production of horseman in Kyoto to Swordsman. This unit's goin' to Russia, and they've got a lot of hills there - not equine country. Our military advisor says that Russia has a weak military compared to us; to me that's a sign that we need to hit them and hit them hard NOW, before they become strong.

(1) 70AD Two German spearmen killed, one swordsman lost. There is one archer remaining in Berlin.

(2) 90AD "We have destroyed the Fledgling Germans, sir." Good they deserved it! Two vet swordsmen land on the Russian continent. More on the way. By now, as you might have guessed, I decided not to build a courthouse in Kyoto; it takes 9 turns to build the courthouse and 9 turns to mine a mountain tile with the workers in the area. Good tile management should allow 3 turn builds in most situations, and I felt military was more justified than city improvements in a game that doesn't look to last until the modern era.

(3) 110AD AIs have Currency this turn. Both Aztecs and Zulus have the tech (of course) and want 110g and World Map for it. We get it from the Aztecs, because they have less money. Other than this, uneventful turn.

(4) 130AD Son of Frankfurt get a temple whipped this turn as it reaches size 2. Satsuma finishes its courthouse naturally and begins a barracks with the intention of pumping troops later.

(5) 150AD Russians must have been eating their Wheaties... 3 vet swordsman fail to take out 2 regular spears. My poor luck with combat continues! We did kill one, but even that took a swordsman to 1hp (sigh). Osaka also finished its harbor this turn, set to military.

(7) 190AD The Russians land two warriors on our island. I'm very not scared.

(8) 210AD As expected, the Russian warriors impale themselves on a spearman, creating another elite. Next turn I get another "stab" at Russia as an elite sword and a vet land on their mainland.

(9) 230AD AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
One spearman has taken out no fewer than 4 vet swords and an elite. One damn spearman! Temptation to reload is difficult to resist... but no, that's not the way the game goes. I'm sorry to admit that in frustration I threw a vet spearman at the guy too, hoping for a miracle (the odds were so off, who knows what could happen ) but couldn't do any damage. I should add that I never came even close to killing this guy, he never took more than 1 damage. What are the odds of that? On a side note, Tokyo's courthouse and Nara's harbor whipped this turn.

Diplomatically I do better. Our ROP comes up for renewal. Montezuma now has contact with the Persians, so I get that and 40g with him for another 20 turns of ROP. 40g from Shaka for more ROP. I use that money to establish an embassy with Persia (81g). They have the most cities and land of anyone, one lux (incense) and will finish the Pyramids in 23 turns. Shaka must have found him because he's wealthy and X-man is broke. Interestingly, Shaka has monotheism now, but no one else does. I expect it to be brokered next turn.

(10) 250AD I finish the mine on the mountain near Kyoto... then discover that mountains only yield 2 shields under despotism. How could I forget that? (sigh) Xerxes has gone from 0 gold to 293 in one turn - he clearly got monotheism for free (somehow, who knows?) then dealt it to Monty. Sure enough, the Aztecs have 0 gold, so we get montheism from them for 70g. We can get peace from Catherine whenever we want, but as said before, she can't give us anything for it. I leave continuation of the war or its end up to the group for discussion. Sorry for the combat results, but it's out of my control of course. If you want some useless good news, we're first on the histogram by a miniscule amount.

Notes: Just about all of my current city productions are open to change; some like Son of Frankfurt are deliberately left on something that won't be finished for next ruler to change. A lot depends on whether we go peaceful or continue fighting Russia. I suggest leaving Steveville and Kagoshima on settlers though, as one is to be sent to the white dot on SW island, the other to purple dot on lake south of Berlin. Better combat luck to the next ruler! (There's also likely another island south of Son of Frankfurt to be explored when a galley gets the chance)

file: RBD23b 250AD

 

[Sullla]

Here's Persia. They got the best starting position in my opinion and thus have the best territory.

 

[Sirian]

Don't worry about the combat results, Russia was due after losing 3 of 3 fights with me on my turn.

The loss of the troops IS a setback -- and precisely why we can't afford to go with the line of thinking that says "we don't need city improvements, the game won't last to the modern age". No, it WON'T last to the modern age, but it is going to last a good bit longer, and that's not going to be the last stack of units lost in combat, so we have to balance unit production with increasing our production capacity (by improving the cities). Some investment in the cities will leave us with MORE total units after a certain date than if we just built nothing but units.

(Was there some defensive factor in the AI's favor? City size? Walls? A river? City on a hill? If not... yeah, oucher. ).

We're going to get to samurai soonish, and those take 70 shields per unit, so we need several high producing cities to crank those out. Also, at some soonish point the AI's are going to get pikemen, and even if we cranked nothing but swords and ran over Russia with them, by the time we did that, the others would have pikes, so... there's no way we're going to conquer the whole world without stronger cities. Now might be a wise time to get some aqueducts built.

Population is power. We also have to do what we can to manage corruption.


- Sirian


EDIT: forgot to mention, there is help with managing the new file system in the LOTR2 thread.

 

[LKendter]

Preturn - - why did we build Nara???
A forever size 1 with 2 shields, or a growing city with 1 shield - What a waste.
Building a road into jungle - much better to clear it first, but with 2 turns to go...

I check the trading screen -
Spices to Persia for $125.
Silks to Persia for $110.
Wahoo - The Aztecs need Iron.
Wahoo - The Zulu need Horses.
Palace expansion.

260 AD - I mm a turn off of sword Osaka.
270 AD - Kyoto starts marketplace - it will more then pay for itself.
I let Edo build another spear - what else to do with a 1/1 town?
280 AD - Osaka will also benefit from a marketplace.
290 AD - Nagoya is formed - I am not sure if I agree with the infamous dot maps...
Starts temple to get the horses within our borders.
300 AD - My luck totally SUCKS - Attack minsk with 2 swordsman, lose 2 swordsman

310 AD - The whipping in Tokyo bites us back - city stuck in size 5 with entertainer.
Why did we whip a high production city??????????????????????????
330 AD - Izumo is formed.
340 AD - A lone Russian warrior lands - I risk spearman - we don't even lose an hp.
350 AD - Killing the warrior comes with price - 1 turn of disorder in Kyoto.

Summary - Aquaducts don't help us much - just put some ocean to use - so I didn't build any.

Well I SUCK - I didn't catch the scientist in Munich got switched -
Entertainer for several turns, still 9 turns to Monarchy.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/RDB23B-350AD.zip

Well I know not to play in future RDB games, just 10 turns isn't even worth the bother.

 

[Sullla]

(Was there some defensive factor in the AI's favor? City size? Walls? A river? City on a hill? If not... yeah, oucher. .

Well... Smolensk was size 2, no walls, not acrossing across a river (I'm not an idiot... most of the time ), not on a hill (on tundra in fact). Three vet swords were not able to take two regular spears. Then a few turns later, an elite sword and a vet sword and an injured vet sword and a vet spearman couldn't take more than 1hp off the same spearman all put togther. Unfortunately, lkendter had no better luck than I did...

It looks like Russia is not going to go down to our swordsmen. As Sirian said, their window of opportunity is closing rapidly. It's probably our best bet to back off and get peace now, build some necessary city improvements, and not attack again until we have samurai. Considering that Russia's land isn't that good, we might want a different target next too. Maybe the group should discuss where we want to head next in the game?

 

[Arizona_Steve]

Sounds like we need a builder here. I'll see what I can do.

 

[Sirian]

I'm sorry your turn was unfun, LK. If you have issues, by all means put them on the table and we'll talk about them. I'll try to address some of the points you've already raised.

Preturn - - why did we build Nara???
A forever size 1 with 2 shields, or a growing city with 1 shield - What a waste.

I built Nara. I would do it again. It was without doubt the most productive location left on the map at the time, barring the creation of a Forbidden Palace somewhere. And that explains WHY it was the most productive: corruption. Again, I think you are operating on "cruise control" with large map information in mind. But look at our cities -- not now, after I pushed for courthouses. Go back and look at the start of my last turn, and see just how far from Kyoto we can go before corruption goes from "bad" to 1/1. Edo is not that far from the capital, but it's 1/1, at least under despotism and without a courthouse, it is. I think it will get a little better under Monarchy.

Nara is close enough to have minimal corruption. Once it has grown a bit, it will be pulling in trade from the sea, which is like a permanent extra trade deal worth # gpt and growing. When the iron mountain is finally mined, Nara can have MORE SHIELDS GOING than any other spot on the map I could have settled. Any.

Building a road into jungle - much better to clear it first, but with 2 turns to go...

I agree with you here. There are times when a road through the jungle is more urgent, but they are rare.

I check the trading screen -
Spices to Persia for $125.
Silks to Persia for $110.

$125 is ~6pt.

Just pointing out that Nara at size 3 would pull in 7gpt if growing, 6gpt if working the iron mines (yet to come) -- probably lose one, maybe two to corruption, but still comparable. A waste? Hardly.

290 AD - Nagoya is formed - I am not sure if I agree with the infamous dot maps...

Well you didn't agree with Nara, either. That's fine, but the dot maps aren't there as an exercise in vanity. They are there to offer suggestions. I even spelled out the reasoning behind the choices I offered. If you have a better idea, put it forth -- feel free to veto and change anything you like on your turn, because you're here to play, not be a cog in my dotmap machine -- but your choices will face the same scrutiny as anybody else's, including mine.

310 AD - The whipping in Tokyo bites us back - city stuck in size 5 with entertainer.
Why did we whip a high production city??????????????????????????

Tokyo was NOT a high production city when I inherited it. It had alarmingly high waste for a city so close to the capital. It's been whipped twice, once for the granary and once for the courthouse. However, whippings do fade eventually (the second one should be ending somewhere around your next turn), more luxuries can come online, luxury taxes can be raised, more units could be put on military police duty in the city, etc etc.

Yes, short term the city pays a small price, but skim a worker off and run two mined hills at size 4 for a little while until the factors line up to increase the population again, and it's no big deal. And WHEN those factors line up (and it will be sooner rather than later) then Tokyo is ahead of the game. At least in the mean time you CAN build units with it. If not for the whippings, it would either still be building its infrastructures, or it would go without them, either of which would be WORSE for the city than the whippings long before this game is can be won. On a larger map, sure, that city would be lower corruption than it is on this map and I'd agree with you. However, it was pulling in only three shields per turn and I deemed it worth a little short term sacrifice to put it in a position to be cranking out samurai rather than still limping along building swordsmen.

350 AD - Killing the warrior comes with price - 1 turn of disorder in Kyoto.

What a waste. You could have increased the luxury tax to 10% for one turn, spending somewhere between 2 and 5 gold, and saved that whole round of production. Might even fire that entertainer in Tokyo, and run 10% lux continuously, but that would be a different issue.

Summary - Aquaducts don't help us much - just put some ocean to use

Ya, for now. However, once we swap to monarchy, we stop getting 4 units of free support from every city, it drops to 2 in cities below size 7. Also, our cities (the ones without walls) get a significant defensive bonus for growing to size 7+. Economy is power, and we can use the extra gold pulled in from those "useless" ocean tiles to rushBUY some troops at Edo (a useless 1/1 town) or any number of other arrangements. Not to mention that higher populations mean more score, too.

Considering that the last two assaults vs Russia didn't make much headway for us, I consider that to be support for my point of view: that some strengthening of the core cities will speed, not slow, our eventual victory.

Well I know not to play in future RDB games, just 10 turns isn't even worth the bother.

I played in one of your 20 turn jobbers, and it was fun. But I only got three turns. I got to do a lot on those turns, but by the time my turn would come around again... I didn't even recognize the game any more.

Certainly you get to do less with ten turns, but you get to contribute to every stage of the game, you come up more often, and part of the point is precisely that you don't have enough time to unilaterally execute an entire major operation. You have to rely on your teammates more, work together more. Sure, there are things going for your way, but there are things going for ours, too. But "not worth the bother"? I did NOT behave this way when I was a guest in your game, even though there were things about the way it was run that I would have done differently. The point wasn't to have everything my way, it was to play in your game to try something different from what I was normally doing. I had fun. I hope you have fun here, too, but if you don't, please be polite about it. You DID know about the ten turn rule when you signed on.


- Sirian

 

[LKendter]

Well a lot of philosphy differences, not going to argue much.

One thing I agree on - I think peace with Russia is due soon.
If the next round of attacks fail - see if we can get a city -
build a base for future attacks.

You are right about the large / standard maps. I just don't think right for small maps. Same confusion with Tokyo and the whippings. However, we will never agree on whipping a granary - increase city growth - grow faster into unhappy mode?

The 350 AD Spearman was a airhead move, period.
I failed to think about unhappy effect.

However, I think I finally understand why I see some people are hot for the with aquaduct - the money factor - I think I have been to focused on shields. I think my game play will change on this one.

I screwed up on the 10 turn deal - I am so use to 20 being the standard, I didn't even realize it. You are right, it does make tag teaming more important. However, for me it was annoying that I got just a single chance for action versus Russia. What I don't like with the 10 turn rules is rounds like this - I felt I did NOTHING to help Japan.

I don't plan to respond to more comments - You can't change philosphies.

My apologies if I have offended anyone.
I will just shut up and do quite turns from now on.

 

[Arizona_Steve]

We are now a republic, and the former Russian furs are ours, giving us a total of three luxuries (and therefore making marketplaces viable). I also made peace with Russia on my turn.

Inherited Turn (350AD):
I take a quick look at Kyoto and notice the entertainer there is superfluous. He's put back to work. It's in disorder however, so I'm wondering if someone put a unit in there or built a "happy" improvement.
Our research is zero. I thought there was a scientist somewhere. An entertainer in Tokyo is changed to a scientist.
Russia begins the Great Library.
A Russian galley approaches our land.

(1) 360AD
Slow Edo growth a little to get the extra commerce from the spices.
Smolensk is attacked. One elite spear is killed by our swordsman, our archer dies killing their other regular spear.
I move our galley back to our lands and load up a couple more swordsmen.
A third swordsman gets ready to intercept the Russian galley.
Second galley is moved back to our lands to pick up settlers for the island colony.
Look round the cities again and change horsemen to spearmen and swords. To me the 2 defence is important in holding cities. Everything else builds infrastructure (with the odd settler here and there).
I dislike jungles. They're smelly and nasty and the cause all sorts of diseases. Since we're pretty built up around the capital, I send more workers in that direction.
The Russians don't land any troops. Instead they head north and attempt to block our galley.

(2) 370AD
What's with these Russian spearmen? I attack with our swordsman and get killed.
The good news is that two more are landed from our galley.
Edo builds spearman, starts marketplace. It's going to take a while, so plenty of ooportunities to veto this.
Satsuma pumps out a swordsman and starts a marketplace.
Persia begins construction of the Great Library.

(3) 380AD
We capture Smolensk, and acquire a source of furs. Now our marketplaces will be USEFUL from a happiness perspective. A temple is ordered to guard against flipping. The one citizen there is turned into a scientist.
Our Northern Galley is sent back to Edo and picks up the new spearman there. He will add the the Smolensk fortification.
I change the scientist at Tokyo to an entertainer. Every happy person helps our score.
Now that Smolensk is captured, I call up Cathy for peace. We get a good deal out of it, Monarchy and Republic, plus her entire treasury of 4 gold. I revolt immediately.
Kyoto, Osaka and Satsuma revolt, Entertainers hired. Republic is selected as we are at peace with everyone. Intent is to rush the harbor at Smolensk so that we have three luxuries online.
Russia begins the Great Library.

(4) 390AD
Why does the stupid computer change my scientist to an entertainer???
I check the happiness situation in our cities, no changes required.
Swordsman is loaded into Galley for the Southern Isle.
Order is restored in all cities.

(5) 400AD
(6) 410AD
Temple rushed in Smolensk as the cost is halved. Harbor is ordered up next.
Steveville builds settler, starts marketplace.
Berlin builds temple, starts courthouse.
Kagoshima builds spearman, starts courthouse.

(7) 420AD
Satsuma switched from marketplace to settler, we need to colonize North of Kagoshima.
Since we're at peace, I send our Northern galley exploring.
Kyoto builds marketplace, starts aquaduct. It will be able to grow with the furs online.
Persia begins the Hanging Gardens.
Persia completes the Pyramids in Persepolis.
Paersia also completes the Great Lighthouse in Pasargadae.
One cascade - the Russians start the Great Library (again???).

(8) 430AD
Galley continues explorations.
Harbor is rushed at Smolensk. Marketplace started.
Osaka builds marketplace, starts aquaduct.

(9) 440AD
Cultural borders expand at Smolensk. Hopfully it should be safe from flipping now.
Satsuma spits out a settler, restarts marketplace.
Russia begins the Hanging Gardens.
Moscow completes the Great Library.

(10) 450AD
Southern galley (which I'd completely forgotten about) is unfortified and heads to the Southern Isle with a settler and swordsman in tow.
Satsuma settler heads North to settle above Kagoshima.

Notes:
Not a lot really, went for peaceful expansion (after making sure the furs in Smolensk were secured and linked via harbor). With decent infrastructure and happy people, we should be able to outproduce the AI.

File: RBD23B - 450AD

 

[Arizona_Steve]

And a picture of our lands...

 

[LKendter]

Originally posted by Arizona_Steve
We are now a republic, and the former Russian furs are ours, giving us a total of three luxuries (and therefore making marketplaces viable). I also made peace with Russia on my turn.

(4) 390AD
Why does the stupid computer change my scientist to an entertainer???

OK, maybe I didn't screw that one up.
Looks like I need to be real paranoid when playing the 1 scientist game.

 

[Arizona_Steve]

Looks like rushing the harbor didn't work, as there is a sea square between Smolensk and our mainland. My assumption was that if a galley could get across safely there was a trade route between the two points.

I just reloaded the game and noticed this isn't the case. UGH!!

Hope I didn't screw things up too much.

 

[Sullla]

Smolensk is gone. Hooray!
3rd time must be the charm.

Sounds like a very productive turn there. A foothold on Russian soil with furs in its radius definitely is a plus - which is exactly why lkendter and I were both attacking there. But I think peace after that was a good idea, getting techs and security.

lkendter: I don't think that anyone in the game wants you to "shut up and take quiet turns." Succession games are team efforts (as I'm sure you know after 20-something LK games), and we will do better if everyone offers their point of view in the game. For instance I'm going to defer to you and Sirian on most points since I have less experience with Civ3, but that doesn't mean I won't veto a project if I think it's justified for the situation (even if the result is pure )

I understand the feeling that you didn't get to accomplish anything on your turn. I didn't found any cities and completely failed in my attempt to take Smolensk on my last turn. But the fact that I got two courthouses and two harbors built, and almost finished two settlers, meant that someone else on another turn would be able to do something big. As it was, I destroyed the Germans with the forces that lonestar and Arizona_Steve had very nicely provided me. The very nature of succession games means that it will be give-and-take as to who has the game during interesting times. You seem to have founded two citites and created some city improvements during your 10 turns, which seems like something to me!

I just hope that you aren't being frustrated by the nature of this succession game. Small maps are so different from large ones that it is difficult to adjust. In GOTM6 (a large map) I find myself amazed by how loooong it takes to play out turns because I'm used to standard and small ones. But please don't feel too frustrated over not helping the team because trust me, we definitely can benefit from your experience.

 

[lonestar]

Ok, i'l play soon and post.

 

[LKendter]

Originally posted by Sullla
I just hope that you aren't being frustrated by the nature of this succession game. Small maps are so different from large ones that it is difficult to adjust.

You seem to have founded two citites and created some city improvements during your 10 turns, which seems like something to me!

Actually, this is major problem with my play here. My skills on a small map suck. My game play is oriented to toward the larger scale - much of what I have developed has turned worthless here.
Mistakes like my FP comment - Of course, if we EVER get a leader to build one...

 

[Sirian]

LK: smaller maps are only mainly different in terms of managing the corruption and the wonders. Some wonders are worth less on smaller maps, and corruption is much more intrusive, so you have to give courthouses more due and settle everything near the capital quickly, even if its desolate like Nara, because desolate low-corruption is worth more than lush 1/1.

As for the granary whipping, we aren't disagreeing. BY ITSELF, it sure can look like a dumb move -- but that was only part of my plan. Whipping a city that ends up limiting its growth is NOT GOOD, but... just a few gpt into luxuries (20% tops) would not only alleviate that limit at Tokyo and allow the city to function at size 5 or 6, but would also work right along with the aqueducts in Osaka and Kyoto to allow them to grow larger, without taking anything away from distant cities, which are too corrupt for it to matter. I WOULD NOT LEAVE THE CITY ON AN ENTERTAINER. That was never part of my plan -- but when my turn ends, it's up to somebody else to run things. Not only that, but a few gpt into lux would increase our score per turn, too, and we are playing specifically for score in this game. A courthouse can PAY FOR ITSELF in terms of the whipping used to build it by lowering the corruption in the city to GET MORE OUT OF the same % lux taxes.

As for feeling that you got nowhere... that's not a big deal. On my first turn, we were one extra bad roll away from LOSING THE GAME, if our capital had fallen to the first German invasion after I pushed us into the immediate war. It's all been downhill from there, and I got the sense from Charis (correct or not, intended or not) that we're "ahead of the curve" vs the other teams, so they may be having it even rougher. Despite the successes I had on my turn, I was quite disappointed with losing that ship in the south to a barb ship -- how absurd was that! And that was our whole navy down there, left us without any eyes or transportation in that region for centuries.

Why do you think I was fussing so much on my first turn? Smegged has stuck us with a game that is going to rise on fall on such spouts of luck. I saw that about six turns into the game. That is also why I said screw it, if that's what we're facing, let's dive in there and see just what Lady Luck has to offer us. If it doesn't work out, I'm blaming her! And smegged.


Steve: the furs won't come online until Astronomy -- because yes, there must be an unbroken coastal waters path to make a crossing of that kind on a trade route -- but we are denying them to Russia and it's good we finally won there after so much struggle and strife. By golly we earned those furs!

We ended up in Republic? Cool. That's even better for our economy for now -- and I suppose that answers the "are we going to stay in despotism" question -- which is fine, as nobody seemed to have any opinions on that one. And... being religious, if weariness beats us down too much at some point, only one turn lost to slide over to Monarchy. So good job.


- Sirian

 

[lonestar]

Ok guys, had a quite uneventfull turn as far as diplomacy goes, but got some stuff built.
Preturn:
Had a look at F2, and traded spice, 4gpt + 5gp of persia for insence. This enabled osaka and kyoto to reduce construction of aqueduct from 14 -> 10 and 11 -> 9, but did nothing for tokyo
Berlin changed from sword to courthouse, figured best to make troops at a low corruption cities.
changed munich entertainer to a scientist

1) 460 AD: Munich builds barracks changed to a marketplace, but that's going to be a while, 100 turns infact
Persians building Tzu's
Aztecs building Hanging gardens
" Great wall
Zulus building Hanging gardens

South boat changes direction and heads west. Investigated Bapedi, there are no culture improvements, so i'm going to make a beachhead near the cows there and go for a culture flip, it could end up being a good city aswell as it's quite close to the capital.
Trade monty feudlism for WM + 58 gp. Could have renog RoP for it, but didn't want to comite to 20 more years of peace, looking back however we don't have any millitary to speak of i and planned of going for infrastructure so could of saved 58gp.
North boat heads south, i would love to stick a settler on the wine north of monty.

2) 470AD: Zim builds Hanging gardens
changed son of frank of build a settler, it will be size 4 next turn and is only bringing in 2gpt and 1 sheild, so i'll rather have the extra city.

3) 480AD: persians building Tzu's again
" Great wall
Aztecs building Great wall
" Tzu's
we have no wonders
found Nagaski west of the lake in the desert, starts on a temple
disembark settler and sword on hill north of cows next to bapedi

4) 490 AD: found Yokohama, starts temple
tokyo people forget a little about the whipping, all hands on desk again, city will grow in 4 turns

5) 500AD: Russians building Tzu's
X-man not has some cash, but will only give 5gpt for silk, tight git!, so i don't go for it.
moved sword south from edo to tokyo, we have little defence in that area, so moved to give greater range of operations.

6) 510AD: Zulus begin Tzu's
son of frank pops a settler changed to courthouse. settler moves west.
rush temple in yokohama for 100 ish gp

7) 520AD: plod

8) 530AD: Tokyo grows, will be unhappy next turn, o well, back to the entertainer.

9) 540AD: Kyoto finishes Aqueduct, changed to pikeman, the next leader feel free to change it.
Tenochtitlan builds great wall.

10) 550AD: Osaka builds aqueduct changed to courthouse
tokyo builds marketplace changed to aqueduct, all hands back on deck in tokyo.
Mine finshed on spice near edo, corruption steals extra sheild
Galley kills a barb galey, takes one hp.
Disembark settler south of nagoya

Making some progress, pretty boring turn, the next leader i suggest should rush the library in yokohama and try to get a culture flip there, if not it should be a good city anyway. If a harbour is build we should have trade routs to the zulus and the aztecs. Would like to get a wine city up north of monty. We have no millitary anymore, i think we should not start to fall behind on that front, some of the core cities have finished thier aqueducts so we have some production free there.